LA crowds protest an officer's actions, I disagree

[Bateluer]

http://www.cnn.com/2010/CRIME/09/08/los.angeles.protests/index.html

Los Angeles, California (CNN) -- Tensions flared for the second night as crowds protested in the streets of Los Angeles, California, late Tuesday.

Hundreds upset about an officer-involved shooting gathered near downtown, authorities said.

Police were monitoring the situation and shot nonlethal foam rounds at the ground to try and restore order, said spokeswoman Sara Faden of the Los Angeles Police Department.

CNN affiliate KTLA said protesters threw rocks, eggs and bottles at police officers, and video footage showed fires burning in the streets.

It was the second night of protests triggered by the weekend shooting of Manuel Jamines, KTLA reported.

Jamines, 37, was killed Sunday by police after allegedly threatening someone with a knife, according to KTLA.

Jamines was a Guatemalan laborer, a husband and a father of three, the affiliate reported.

Found a different take on another news site,
http://www.ktar.com/category/us-new...-police-protested-after-man's-shooting-death/

Neither CNN or KTAR specify whether he was illegal or not, but given the apparent circumstances, that makes no difference. He was drunk and armed with a weapon. 6 civilians on the scene, 9 police personnel, and 2 fire department staff testified that the officer who fired the lethal shots did so in the 'immediate defense of life'. Two shots, suspect dies on the scene. Overboard? Perhaps, but its easy to judge when you're not in that situation yourself. I'm inclined to believe that when an individual lunges at you with a weapon, drunk or not, that your life is in immediate danger and you have the right to take any action necessary to defend yourself.

The officers approached the suspect and told him in Spanish and English to put down the weapon. Instead, Jamines raised the knife above his head and lunged at Officer Frank Hernandez, a 13-year veteran of the department, Beck said.

Eyewitness accounts from six civilians, nine police personnel and two fire department staff indicate Hernandez fired twice "in immediate defense of life," Beck said. Jamines, 37, died at the scene.

Investigators recovered a bloody, 6-inch knife at the scene but didn't know where the blood came from.

"This was a very brief moment in time, just 40 seconds between first contact and the time of the shooting," Beck said.

A citywide tactical alert was called to free up officers to respond to the area, Rayner said.

The combination of protesters and this little tidbit really infuriates me. You idiots just pulled officers off other important duties, protecting you sorry asses from various criminals, robberies, etc. So now instead of stopping that liquor or convenience store robbery, they're firing foam pellets at you because you're too stupid to realize that the suspect was armed, drunk, and dangerous. What do you honestly expect the officer to do? Grapple hand to hand with the suspect for control of the knife? Two shots would hardly be considered excessive, unlike some instances where we've seen officers empty the clip. If I'm a cop, I'm not messing with the armed criminals, I'm going to do whatever is necessary to remove the threat as quickly as possible. If that means they take a bullet to the head, than so be it. I'm pretty sure the officer didn't have more than a fraction of a second to analyze the situation and react.

 

[Ancalagon44]

The thing is that the police's conduct in other areas, such as pursuing lawsuits against people who videotape police behaving badly, and using force unnecessary, has lessened the public's trust in them. Ordinarily, the police officer would be praised for making the right decision, difficult though it probably was. Now though, his profession is in disrepute after so many stories about corruption and cronyism in the force. Doesnt make the protest right, but it means the police need to clean up their act otherwise the public will never trust or respect them.

 

[dfuze]

Going from those seperate accounts of the situation I would have to side with the officer and say he acted in defense of his life and the others on the scene. And I really hate how they add at the end of the first article how he had 3 kids, as if to try to make you feel sorry for him. If you do that, why not say how many kids the officer had which could have been fatherless had he not acted in self defense?

 

[pcgeek11]

Contain them and let them protest and burn their own neighborhoods to the ground just like they did in the 1965 Watts in LA. Which was over some dude being arrested for drunk driving. Stupid assholes rioting and the stupid asshole that was shot. Good riddance IMO. It is hard to believe humans are this fucking stupid.

Give the cops a medal and tell the crowd to go blow a root!

 

[PeshakJang]

I'm surprised Obama hasn't made a statement about this officer's poor judgment yet.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Criminals in LA have been babied forever. Can't be accused of racism.

If I were King of LA I'd build a razor wire compound out in the desert. When this crap was pulled I'd have helicopters with the latest and greatest video equipment recording the whole scene. Then I'd have the police, National Guard, whatever it takes and wall off the area and arrest every rioter in the area. Off to the compound they go. Give everyone a trial (of course that may take a while considering the number of people involved) and if they are guilty, they go to the compound next door for longer term guests. Rinse, repeat.

It's long past time that people learn this kind of behavior can't be tolerated.

 

[dfuze]

I'm surprised Obama hasn't made a statement about this officer's poor judgment yet.

Maybe because he even would realize that it was justified.

 

[spidey07]

I'm surprised Obama hasn't made a statement about this officer's poor judgment yet.

I believe the criminal "acted stupidly". :biggrin:

This is what you call a good shoot. Fully justified. Don't want to get dead? Don't threaten serious bodily injury or death to another person or an officer. It's really just that simple.

 

[HumblePie]

I believe the criminal "acted stupidly". :biggrin:

This is what you call a good shoot. Fully justified. Don't want to get dead? Don't threaten serious bodily injury or death to another person or an officer. It's really just that simple.

Yep, I agree with Spidey here. Not often, but sometimes he says the right thing.

I'm surprised Obama hasn't made a statement about this officer's poor judgment yet.

However, Peshjang, WTF does Obama have to do with this? Why the heck do you and other idiots with a hardon for some political figure they don't like have the constant need to put digs into some person they've never really even met except through their perceptions of their preferred media outlet? Seriously, grow the fuck up.

 

[Brovane]

I am more suprised by the restraint the officers showed. Usually in this type of stuff with multiple officers you hear about all the officers emptying there clips into the suspect. Instead only one officer shot twice. Basically the suspect threatened the officer with a knife and started to approach the officer. The officer double-tapped the suspect and the suspect went down. Sounds like a good shot to me considering the circumstances. I love to hear some people talking about how the officer should have shot the suspect in the leg.

 

[spidey07]

I am more suprised by the restraint the officers showed. Usually in this type of stuff with multiple officers you hear about all the officers emptying there clips into the suspect. Instead only one officer shot twice. Basically the suspect threatened the officer with a knife and started to approach the officer. The officer double-tapped the suspect and the suspect went down. Sounds like a good shot to me considering the circumstances. I love to hear some people talking about how the officer should have shot the suspect in the leg.

I'll bite. Yeah, shoot the legs. That way it takes an extra half second before the knife goes into your heart.

In training we were taught a guy with a knife inside 20 feet can pretty much reach you before you can unholster your weapon and fire. That's why you're supposed to train regularly which it seems like this officer did. 2 shot drop.

 

[HumblePie]

I'll bite. Yeah, shoot the legs. That way it takes an extra half second before the knife goes into your heart.

In training we were taught a guy with a knife inside 20 feet can pretty much reach you before you can unholster your weapon and fire. That's why you're supposed to train regularly which it seems like this officer did. 2 shot drop.

Lol, agreed Spidey. When being taught to shoot a gun you go for center mass. Period. Trying to shoot smaller moving targets drops the likelihood of making a shot especially when adrenaline is raised from a life or death situation.

Also 2 shots doesn't mean he actually pulled the trigger twice. If he has a somewhat loose trigger a gun can easily pop off two rounds when the person firing though they only shot once. That is perfectly acceptable. Now unloading a clip into someone is not. Any police officer that does that needs to be sent to jail him or herself.

 

[spacejamz]

However, Peshjang, WTF does Obama have to do with this? Why the heck do you and other idiots with a hardon for some political figure they don't like have the constant need to put digs into some person they've never really even met except through their perceptions of their preferred media outlet? Seriously, grow the fuck up.

Looks like someone forgot the story where obama said the police acted stupidly before he knew all of the facts. At least he has learned to keep his mouth shut and let the cops do their jobs...

 

[Jaskalas]

Looks like someone forgot the story where obama said the police acted stupidly before he knew all of the facts. At least he has learned to keep his mouth shut and let the cops do their jobs...

Why are you bringing up Obama? His outrage was in defense of a black professor. No blacks are involved in this shooting.

 

[HumblePie]

Looks like someone forgot the story where obama said the police acted stupidly before he knew all of the facts. At least he has learned to keep his mouth shut and let the cops do their jobs...

/sigh

Then make comments there for that thread in that thread. I also missed that thread I guess as I do not troll here 24/7. Doesn't change the fact I think it's stupid to rant idiotically in every perceived similar thread like that.

 

[BoomerD]

I suspect we're in for another "shit storm" here...

http://www.modbee.com/2010/09/08/1328056/police-victim-in-fatal-officer.html

Yes, the suspect SHOULD have dropped the spatula and complied with the officers. NO disagreement about that, but the local Hispanic community certainly won't see it that way

It was just 10 years ago that the local police shot & killed an 11 year old boy during a drug raid...he was laying on the floor, complying with the officers when he was shot & killed with a shotgun.

http://home.pacbell.net/rsdotson/gov/govkills/Sepulveda.htm

 

[spidey07]

I suspect we're in for another "shit storm" here...

http://www.modbee.com/2010/09/08/1328056/police-victim-in-fatal-officer.html

Yes, the suspect SHOULD have dropped the spatula and complied with the officers. NO disagreement about that, but the local Hispanic community certainly won't see it that way

It was just 10 years ago that the local police shot & killed an 11 year old boy during a drug raid...he was laying on the floor, complying with the officers when he was shot & killed with a shotgun.

http://home.pacbell.net/rsdotson/gov/govkills/Sepulveda.htm

Still should have fired and justified. Agree there's going to be a shitstorm. If you lunge at an officer with anything that appears to be a weapon, you're going to get dead.

 

[BoomerD]

Still should have fired and justified. Agree there's going to be a shitstorm. If you lunge at an officer with anything that appears to be a weapon, you're going to get dead.

Yep. "Put down the spatula and step away from the stove."

(I've known many women for whom that would have been GOOD advice)

 

[Theb]

A family member believed Moran had taken a butcher knife from a dish rack in the kitchen

He was from the future, he was trying to warn them.

 

[her209]

However, Peshjang, WTF does Obama have to do with this? Why the heck do you and other idiots with a hardon for some political figure they don't like have the constant need to put digs into some person they've never really even met except through their perceptions of their preferred media outlet? Seriously, grow the fuck up.

Obama Derangement Syndrome

 

[Daedalus685]

He deserved to be shot if all is as described.

But isn't this why they invented tasers? At least in theory... whether they are useful for it or not is another topic entirely.

 

[spidey07]

He deserved to be shot if all is as described.

But isn't this why they invented tasers? At least in theory... whether they are useful for it or not is another topic entirely.

Suspect had already been tazed and continued to advance.

 

[spacejamz]

/sigh

Then make comments there for that thread in that thread. I also missed that thread I guess as I do not troll here 24/7. Doesn't change the fact I think it's stupid to rant idiotically in every perceived similar thread like that.

/double sigh...

sometimes we have to connect the dots here for those who cannot connect the dots for themselves...

 

[Binarycow]

there is no point in going back and forth with all the what if's:

• the cop should have tazed him
• the cop should have shot his legs out
• think of the 3 children.
• etc

What about just fucking comply when ordered by a cop? how many times we've heard people got shot by cops for both good and no good reasons?
What the fuck is so hard about following their orders when the alternative is your possible death?

Think the cops are in the wrong then get a lawyer and sue the city afterward. The dead dude must have been one dumb-crazy fucker, IMO. Even if he didn't deserve to die because of his action, he definitely deserved it for his stupidity. What a stupid fuck.

And if anyone comes back with a wise-ass remark about what I post here you can go pound sand.

:twisted: wheres my damn cup of rage.

 

[xj0hnx]

Also 2 shots doesn't mean he actually pulled the trigger twice. If he has a somewhat loose trigger a gun can easily pop off two rounds when the person firing though they only shot once. That is perfectly acceptable.

Lol? If I recall correctly some police department issue handguns use heavier triggers, something like 7-8lb vs the normal 5ish. I have a 3.5lb trigger in my Glock and it doesn't just "pop off" two rounds when you pull the trigger once. That would be a defective trigger and actual fall under the NFA as an automatic.