Kyro II or Geforce II Pro?

[dfloyd]

These are my options.

MSI StarForce 831, GeForce2 Pro, 64MB DDR

or

Guillemot Hercules 3D Prophet 4500 Kyro II 4500 64MB

As far as what I want from a video card.

1. Compatibility (God I wish 3dfx had not went out of business). I dont want a card that plays fine with one game but requires patchs or driver up/downgrades to get it to run. And I HATE GRAPHICS TEARING!!!!

2. Image Quality. Isnt that the whole purpose of getting a graphics card? If speed was all that mattered then 300 x 200 is plenty fast enough.

Right now I can get the GTS Pro for $145 or the Kryo II for $115. The games I play are listed below. (Prefer 1024 x 768 x 32 bit)

Black & White
Counter Strike
Rogue Spear
Dark Ages of Camelot
Serious Sam
Unreal Tournament (Deus Ex, Tactical Ops, etc.)
Q3 (Well Mods, dont like Q3 dm that much)


Ok, any thoughts from users who have one or the other or have seen/tried them? Am very grateful for suggestions, thoughts, things to consider. Right now it seems ,from reading a bunch of reviews, it looks like the G2 Pro comes out on top in speed but seems the image quality of the K2 is better. I am building a whole new system and gotten a bit frustrated with my Radeons UT performance. It does ok but swap o mighty, my voodoo 3 ran it better.


P.S. If you got any thoughts on the Abit KT7A Raid vs Asus A7V 133 I would appreciate em. Dont think I will go DDR yet as from all I have seen its really not worth it. Oh and processor is a 1.33 266 Thunderbird.

 

[dfloyd]

*pulls out shiny new redeemer*
*blasts horse for eating a villager*
*picks up stick*
*beats the dead horse*


Anyone?

 

[powervr2]

kyro 2 can achieve geforce 2 pro level performance only with high end systems...(1,2 athlon, pentium IV)
so you will get lower performance, if you will not get a new cpu.

unreal tournament is really great with kyro 2 1600x1200x32 is playable with a duron 900 .

I only have B&W, and serious sam of those games you mentioned..
and they run great with my duron 900 with kyro 2... 1024x768x32
the only problem is when we are inside of the temple (black and white) it is a little slow sometimes...

picture quality is great (there are many saying that it's superior to geforce)

one more thing...
kyro 2 is more consistent with frame rates... minimum are closer to average and closer to high achieved than others "traditionals cards"

for the compatibility issues:
I bought a pc magazine with a dvd with tons and tons of demos
and all those game/demos run without any poblems...


I am extremely biased against NVIDIA...
so listen to others susgestions also...

 

[Supradude]

not gonna throw up a bunch of specs, but from what i've seen and heard, the Kyro 2 looks very impressive and if i needed a new 3d vid card i would probably get that just cause it's just as fast as a GTS in most cases and it's cheaper... the GTS has a 1 up though due to T&L so if any games you play use T&L or your planning on getting one, maybe a GTS will suit you better...

 

[powervr2]

that was what I was talking about...
T&L could be handled extremely well with kyro 2 only if coupled with a good cpu .
that was why I said that it gets geforce 2 gts performance with athlon 1,2 or pentium 1,2.


but kyro 2 will allways get more consistence with fps...
there are sometimes that geforce 2 pro could get into 200 fps but then lowering into the the teens .. while kyro throws allways good minimum fps...

 

[BFG10K]

kyro 2 can achieve geforce 2 pro level performance only with high end systems...(

No it doesn't. The Pro beats the Kyro2 in almost every benchmark, be it high res or low res (except for Anand's Serious Sam benchmarks, which were flawed).

I'd definitely pick up the GF2 Pro.

 

[PotNoodle]

"No it doesn't. The Pro beats the Kyro2 in almost every benchmark, be it high res or low res (except for Anand's Serious Sam benchmarks, which were flawed)."

Tell us - how where they flawed? Was it just becuase it had them showing a KYROII beating an Ultra?

Like I've said before SS demo's has situations that benefit KYRO immensly, and other that don't at all - I have seen benchmarks of SS where KYROII still keeps up with GF3!!

 

[lsd]

Why SS is a bad benchmark...
Any questions?..
Turn on anisotropic filtering on the K2 and see it come to it's knees.

 

[PotNoodle]

"Why SS is a bad benchmark...
Any questions?.."

Reverend from Beyond3D has a bunch of .ini files that creates a level playing feild - when I talk of KYROII being as fast as a GF3 I mean using these scripts.

 

[AppleTalking]

Here are some Kyro II Unreal Tournament benchmarks from my own personal system. It's an Athlon 1.2GHz. running on an Epox 8K7A (AMD 761) DDR motherboard. I haven't had a chance to run a bunch of tests yet, so these average framerates are from real games, not the demos. Take them for what you will.

UT Benchmarks:
1024x768x32 (4 bots, no AA): 86.45fps avg.
1024x768x32 (8 bots, no AA): 77.85fps avg.
1024x768x32 (4 bots, 2x FSAA): 74.34fps avg.
1024x768x32 (8 bots, 2x FSAA): 68.32fps avg.

Image quality is superb, but then again the only thing I have to compare it to is my old Voodoo2 card. Anyway, since my monitor only goes up to 1280x1024, I don't play at insanely high resolutions. The Kyro II is a perfect little budget card with good 2D, good DVD playback (just watched MI:2 last night), and great 3D performance.

If anyone wants me to run any other Unreal Tournament tests, just ask!!

Nick

 

[nicowju]

Go with a 64MB Geforce2Pro. They're so cheap nowadays (like under $160 or something?), and outperform the Kryo II most of the time. They also have very good drivers

 

[powervr2]

"outperform kyro 2 most of the time "(not allways then )
look at the price 110 us$ (with hercules quality) and 160 us$ for geforce 2 pro (more 50 us $)

when I told you that it can get to geforce 2 pro level I mean it !
there are many reviews out there that used directx8, we kyro 2 owners will get a speed increase when we put directx8.1 final on our systems.

more:
kyro owners will allways get better minimal fps regartheless of the average fps on most of the games (comparing with geforce 2 gts and pro), it is the strong point of tile base rendering. when it needs more fill rate (because of a increase in overdraw) kyro 2 can still deliver... unlike geforce 2 gts and pro..
so in the end we could have more playbility in games with lower average fps .
Of course with a low end cpu, kyro 2 could suffer lower minimum fps(in a intensive T&L game), but that is because of the cpu not because of kyro 2...

"they also have good drivers" like kyro 2 then

 

[nebula]

You can get the 32MB version of the Pro for $118 from CDR Express, check PW.
I'm not bashing the Kyro II, in fact I'm still up in the air about the two cards. I know the comparable Geforce Pro has less mem. but everything I've read said this doesn't matter, at least for now or the near future.

To powervr2: whenever I read your posts, I tend to lean to getting the Kyro! Then my friend talks me back into the Geforce.

Argh, I can't decide!!

 

[AppleTalking]

Nebula: I've been running the 3D Prophet 4500 in my system for a couple of days, and I have to say that anything that costs more isn't worth the money. Seriously, are you going to care whether you get 80fps in Unreal Tournament in 1024x768x32 with a Kyro II or 90fps with a GeForce2 Pro 64MB?? If blind numbers impress you, then by all means get the GF2 Pro. But if you like great 2D image quality, good DVD performance, and good quality in 3D games, get the Kyro II. And use the money you saved to buy a game or a DVD movie or something.

Nick

 

[nebula]

AppleTalking> You make me lean towards the Kyro also!
Do you play CS or have you seen how that performs with the Kyro with your own eyes? That is the main thing I play right now. Do you know of a site that has tweaks for the Kyro for specific games? I also currently have a Voodoo2, I'm thinking that the Kyro, or any new card for that matter, will be simply amazing in comparison, did you notice that?

Thanks!

 

[Lawton]

Hey. I am running a Kyro2 (Prophet 4500) as well, and I really like it so far. I'm understanding why you're seeing VERY FEW of these cards for sale or trade on the sell/trade forum. Those of us who have them are keeping them.

 

[Garet Jax]

dfloyd,

I have a KyroII as well. I haven't had it long, but it won my vote. I have played two games against it: UT and NHL 2001 and have had no problems.

 

[DeathKnightMaF]

ARRRGGGGGHHHHH!!!! Kyro2 INCEST!!!!

Cheap bastards

 

[Trevelyan]

Well, in Quake 3, UT, Undying, and SOF the kyro2 shines like you wouldn't believe... in fact, it runs all the games flawlessly.

My only complaint is with the performance in Counter-Strike in my 900mhz amd cpu system... whenever a lot of things are happening, or a smoke grenade is thrown.. hello 18fps!! It sucks, but I still have confidence. word has it that powervr is working to fix the performance in Counter-Strike, as well as Tribes 2, so I'm sure it will get better.

All other games the kyro2 runs LIKE A DREAM! the quality is MUCH BETTER than my geforce ddr... Quake3 looks SWEET.

I would probably go with the kyro2, mainly because 1) it is cheaper, and 2) it can only get better

 

[The Wildcard]

I recently went with the Geforce 2 Pro. Although the kyroII is a very good card, ie. little frame rate loss between 16bit and 32bit, tile rendering, fsaa. But first, i have a slower cpu, a celeron oc'd to 850mhz. This is roughly equivalent to at most, probably a p3-600. Either way, i didn't think the kryo II would perform well on my slower cpu.

In addition, i think kyro II has varying performance levels. In some games, it'll perform, very, very fast. And in some other games/software, it'll perform slow. Geforce 2, however, seems to have an average performace. not faster than kryo II in some cases, but not really slower in others. Plus, it has T&L too, although software. Kryo II has no T&L onboard.

 

[BFG10K]

Reverend from Beyond3D has a bunch of .ini files that creates a level playing feild - when I talk of KYROII being as fast as a GF3 I mean using these scripts.

I was talking about those scripts. With all the details on max the Kyro2 falls to the bottom of the heap.
Yet you claim the Kyro2 can beat the GF3? Show me. I'd like to see these magical results.

 

[dfloyd]

Hmmm,

Ok so sounds like most everyone who has Kyro II is very satisfied with it. And the guy who posted the 70fps or so in UT with 2x FSAA really motivated me to go Kyro. Although a few posts from some members who have been around for ever also made me take note. And they seem to suggest the Geforce II Pro. As far as price goes the Geforce II Pro is roughly $30-40 more for a 64MB version. $140-150 on a few sites i found. So price is not really the big issue.

The main downplay I see with the Kyro II is when playing Counter Strike. I play CS alot and dont really want to fall into good performance on some and bad on others. I dont want to base my whole decision on one game but has anyone heard of a fix or any tweaks to get performance up some? Like I say it will be a 1.33 processor so the CPU should handle T&L pretty well.

Guess its still up in the air. Really wanted to wait for Radeon II but looks like it may be a ways off and Geforce III is way out of my budget. Thanks to everyone for all the advice so far. Getting alot closer just need to get those few clarifications out of the way.

 

[PotNoodle]

?I was talking about those scripts. With all the details on max the Kyro2 falls to the bottom of the heap.
Yet you claim the Kyro2 can beat the GF3? Show me. I'd like to see these magical results.?

Read again, where did I say ?beat?? I think you?ll find I said ?keep up with?, not beat.

However, with all the details on its not surprising KYROII looses out, since it takes 2 clock cycles to achieve Anisotropic filtering ? however, by doing this there is no way a like for like comparison since virtually all cards support differing number of samples (KYRO ? 16 samples; GeForce < 3 ? 8 samples; GeForce3 ? up to 64 samples). I believe the point of Reverends scripts is to create a level playing field to remove such differences.

Anyway, if you check out this thread one of the guys from B3D has some benchmarks from SS with a GeForce 3 on a 1.2G Athlon, and a KYROII in a 1.1G Athlon:

800x600x16
Norm = 69.7 // 71.2 (63.5 // 64.8)
Qual = 64.8 // 64.7 (60.8 // 62.7)
Speed = 68.6 // 69.9 (64.4 // 65.7)

Different Res:
1024x16 Norm = 67.6 // 68.8 (61.3 // 62.5)
1600x16 Norm = 50.7 // 51.8 (35.2 // 35.9)
1024x32 Norm = 67.4 // 68.8 (62.3 // 63.6)
1600x32 Norm = 48.1 // 49.2 (31.8 // 32.2)

(First Scores are GF3, bracketted scores are KYROII)

Although he didn?t actually state it, considering he comes from B3D then I would assume that he is using B3D?s scripts.

Now, its pretty obvious that GF3 is going to fly away at high res (as it does with those 1600x1200 scores) but outside of that the KYROII does a pretty good job of keeping up. Also, bear in mind the 16bit benchmarks where GF3 should be flying in comparison to KYROII (as KYROII?s 16bit to 32 bit hit isn?t that high). IMO, pretty impressive considering the cost of the card in comparison to GF3.

 

[rake]

IIRC Reverend's scripts essentially level the playing field with SS. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought SS has an auto-detect feature which then optimises the game for your chosen card. Rev's scripts disable this auto-detect, as this is what you should do for benching cards against each other.

In reality the Kyro II plays SS very well when the game is optimised, which lets face it is what you the humble gamer will do. I think this was also the &quot;flaw&quot; that people refer to when talking about Anand's SS benches.

Rake

 

[PotNoodle]

Dfloyd,

There is a fix for CS on the KYRO (I've been looking for it for a while, and I;ve just found it again) - if the following is entered into the registry it is said to fix a number of performance issues with KYRO and CS:

HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE -> Software -> PowerVR (im using powervr drivers) -> KYRO -> Game Settings -> OpenGL -> hl.exe Add a new string value and name it EnableMultitexture, then double click on it and give it a value of 0