Kyoto Protocol

[imported_Condor]

Originally posted by: charrison

Originally posted by: Condor

Originally posted by: maddogchen
too bad Bush is not a very environmentally friendly president. although yes Kyoto was flawed, we should have gone back to the drawing table and brokered out a new proposal that the US might accept. But I don't think thats likely in the next 4 years.

Like Clinton signed it!

Like clinton could sign it. The senate approves treaties

Well, you know how it is. The liberal idiot was bashing Bush again and I like to point back to the ghost of Christmas past when they do that.

 

[imported_Condor]

Originally posted by: Stunt

Originally posted by: Condor
The requirements are tailored by the countries ability to meet them, not by the needs of the environment. Drive through the US and then drive through Russia or Mexico and then think about your question.

I dont care how much pollution they are pumping out relative to the US.
I want to know how pollution can be reduced in these nations...you seem to think they produce a lot.

They make your stuff...so you SHOULD care, as it is your pollution.

OK, and where did your last DVD player or PC come from? They make your stuff too and enteriong into a bad agreement that has no teeth to get them to do anything about their porblems is going to help how?

 

[charrison]

Originally posted by: Stunt

Originally posted by: Condor
The requirements are tailored by the countries ability to meet them, not by the needs of the environment. Drive through the US and then drive through Russia or Mexico and then think about your question.

I dont care how much pollution they are pumping out relative to the US.
I want to know how pollution can be reduced in these nations...you seem to think they produce a lot.

They make your stuff...so you SHOULD care, as it is your pollution.

I do care. And kyoto is the wrong path. Instead of worrying about CO2, lets first worry about get coal plants with scrubbers installed world wide. Lets convince the greens that that nuke power aint so bad and its waste can be effectivly dealt with. There is much we can do.

 

[Stunt]

Originally posted by: Condor

Originally posted by: Stunt

Originally posted by: Condor
The requirements are tailored by the countries ability to meet them, not by the needs of the environment. Drive through the US and then drive through Russia or Mexico and then think about your question.

I dont care how much pollution they are pumping out relative to the US.
I want to know how pollution can be reduced in these nations...you seem to think they produce a lot.

They make your stuff...so you SHOULD care, as it is your pollution.

OK, and where did your last DVD player or PC come from? They make your stuff too and enteriong into a bad agreement that has no teeth to get them to do anything about their porblems is going to help how?

a) my country signed onto the agreement...as bad as it may be
b) countries didnt start pulling out of the agreement until the US took the first step.

You cannot make a global initiative with the leaders of the world backing out.
Canada has no real sway in the world...but we try to set an example...if that is worth criticizing so be it.

Good points Charrison...i am a huge supporter of fission at this point.
Any ideas on how to get countries to implement new scubbers and take on nuclear tech without it looking like we are helping them make nukes...any third world country with nuclear reactors is getting bad press.
Do we need to donate the scrubbers?...threaten?...

 

[sandorski]

When it comes to Kyoto, Pollution, and CO2 let's not confuse visibly "Clean Air" with CO2 or Global Climate Change, they are not the same. CO2 is an invisible gas and though the particulates in the air are major Pollution issues in various places, their effect have nothing to do with Global Climate Change or Kyoto.

 

[charrison]

Originally posted by: Stunt

Originally posted by: Condor

Originally posted by: Stunt

Originally posted by: Condor
The requirements are tailored by the countries ability to meet them, not by the needs of the environment. Drive through the US and then drive through Russia or Mexico and then think about your question.

I dont care how much pollution they are pumping out relative to the US.
I want to know how pollution can be reduced in these nations...you seem to think they produce a lot.

They make your stuff...so you SHOULD care, as it is your pollution.

OK, and where did your last DVD player or PC come from? They make your stuff too and enteriong into a bad agreement that has no teeth to get them to do anything about their porblems is going to help how?

a) my country signed onto the agreement...as bad as it may be
b) countries didnt start pulling out of the agreement until the US took the first step.

You cannot make a global initiative with the leaders of the world backing out.
Canada has no real sway in the world...but we try to set an example...if that is worth criticizing so be it.

Good points Charrison...i am a huge supporter of fission at this point.
Any ideas on how to get countries to implement new scubbers and take on nuclear tech without it looking like we are helping them make nukes...any third world country with nuclear reactors is getting bad press.
Do we need to donate the scrubbers?...threaten?...

There was recent talk of containerized pebble bed nuke reactors that could be delivered on site to provide power.

As far as getting scrubbers installed, well the country has to want to spend the extra money to install the scrubbers.

 

[charrison]

Originally posted by: sandorski
When it comes to Kyoto, Pollution, and CO2 let's not confuse visibly "Clean Air" with CO2 or Global Climate Change, they are not the same. CO2 is an invisible gas and though the particulates in the air are major Pollution issues in various places, their effect have nothing to do with Global Climate Change or Kyoto.

Lets not forget cleaner burning technologies for caol reduce the amount of NOx and SOx as well as CO2 going into the air. Switching power production to natural gas from coal also reduces the amount of C02 going into the air. All these things are related.

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: Jnetty99
why doesnt the U.S. want to join?

It is really flawed and only designed to hurt industrialized nations. If you want to put a world tax on countries who already are built up and distribute it to the poor countries of the world just say it. Dont hide behind treaties as if stealing from the rich and giving to the poor is different because it is a treaty.

China also isnt part of Kyoto. Let the Euros destroy their economy and wonder why they cant find work.

 

[Genx87]

Also with reference to China and India polluting more. That is because all of OUR manufacturing is going over there, plants are closing down here.

Have you ever once thought about why this has been happening? The costs of doing business in the US for jobs like these has increased to the point it makes more sense to goto India or China. One of the reasons is wages. The other is the unbelievable amount of envriomental laws we have in the United States. Why do some factories in the Southwest simply move across the border to Mexico? The workers are the same but the location isnt? Because they dont have to adhere to the same costly regulations as they would in the US.

You sign Kyoto and you can kiss our manufacturing goodbye.

By not signing onto any global pollution agreements, no other country will do this...absolutely no leverage.

The two countries mentioned above wont sign it either. Why put our economy into harms way if the treaty is worthless?

How can you expect the third world to implement if you are not implementing yourself?...Also the population difference is huge, you cannot expect nations producing your stuff and theirs to create less pollution than you (2billion ppl vs. 0.3 billion).

3rd world benefits greatly from Kyoto. First they can pillage off the rest of the manufacturing from the developed nations. If there is anything left over they simply exhort more money out of the same nations they took the manufacturing jobs by selling them pollution credits.

Talk about a win win situation.

You get the benifit of cheaper goods, would it not be worth the minor effects of a potentially slowed economy at home to get these countries to decrease emissions?...also...a person from Canada or America consumes 15 times more energy than a person in india and china.

For now or until they catchup. Now imagine 2 billion people using on avg the same amount of energy.