Kyle opens up a can of whoop-ass on NVIDIA

[Robor]

Currently own a GF4-4200 but my next card will likely be ATI. Waiting for prices to drop and HL2 benchmark scores.

Thanks NFS4 and ElFenix

 

[cHr0nIc]

This whole thing remindes me of the time when 3DFX told everybody that they don't need 32bit color depth, in a time when 32bit color was standard. Now Nvidia is saying we don't want excellent image quality when we puchase a $400 - $500 video card, when ATI has proven otherwise. I'm sorry, but, I for one want my $500 video card to render a game the way the [game] developer intended for it to be rendered. Not the way some driver programmer thinks it should be rendered just so they can squeeze, something like, 10 FPS out of a benchmark. Which is why, for the time being, I have chosen to go with an ATI card.

As for Kyle's outcry for an public apology, or any announcements of "optimization", it's just not gonna happen. Nvidia has just become to big of a company, and they no longer care about what people want, just so long as we continue to purchase their products. This is really a shame too, considering that Nvidia wouldn't be where their at right now if it wasn't for the user feed back they recieved while they were competing with 3DFX. But on the other hand, Nvidia will not succomb to the same fate as 3DFX, and they know this. Nvidia has, somewhat, diversified. It has a very successfull motherboard line, which no one has a problem with, a deal with Micro$oft, and rumors of a possible PCI stand-alone version of the SoundStorm (2 maybe?) chip, these products will keep Nvidia "above water".

 

[Noriaki]

As it stands now I favour (and have ATi) video cards, and have no plans to change that.

I must say nVidia makes a fine Athlon mobo chipset though.

So they are lying corporate slime balls...big deal...most big businesses try to make as much money as they can anyway they can. They aren't "out to screw us" they are out to make money, and if that means screwing us, then you can bet your bottom dollar they'll do it, and so will ATi.

As it stands ATi is on top so doesn't need to cheat to get ahead, nVidia is underneath and trying whatever they can to get back to the top. They got caught doing something nasty...shame on them. But don't kid yourselves into thinking ATi or anyone else is a morally and ethically superior company.

Granted I'd like to see ATi and nVidia struggle for the top slot based solely on technical merit, but that's not the way it works.

My 2c: educate yourself; then buy what you want based on technical merit not on what you percieve to be the morally superior company...chances are your perceptions are wrong.

To be fair...my first reaction is to be pissed at nVidia as well...but if you swapped the top brass at ATi and nVidia leaving all else equal...I'd bet ATi's top brass would have made the same plays, banking on not getting caught...

 

[Megatomic]

Originally posted by: Noriaki
As it stands now I favour (and have ATi) video cards, and have no plans to change that.

I must say nVidia makes a fine Athlon mobo chipset though.

So they are lying corporate slime balls...big deal...most big businesses try to make as much money as they can anyway they can. They aren't "out to screw us" they are out to make money, and if that means screwing us, then you can bet your bottom dollar they'll do it, and so will ATi.

As it stands ATi is on top so doesn't need to cheat to get ahead, nVidia is underneath and trying whatever they can to get back to the top. They got caught doing something nasty...shame on them. But don't kid yourselves into thinking ATi or anyone else is a morally and ethically superior company.

Granted I'd like to see ATi and nVidia struggle for the top slot based solely on technical merit, but that's not the way it works.

My 2c: educate yourself; then buy what you want based on technical merit not on what you percieve to be the morally superior company...chances are your perceptions are wrong.

To be fair...my first reaction is to be pissed at nVidia as well...but if you swapped the top brass at ATi and nVidia leaving all else equal...I'd bet ATi's top brass would have made the same plays, banking on not getting caught...

Damn right (on all points here) Noriaki. :beer:

 

[Barnaby W. Füi]

Huh? They call that an "editorial?" He has missing commas and stupid stuff all over the place. Rant, yes, editorial, no. He needs a proofreader or two.

edit: Christ, this is horrible.

That is not what I want to talk about however.

Quite frankly, I don?t like not having that ability taken from me either.

 

[Corporate Thug]

Originally posted by: DaveSimmons

Originally posted by: OddTSi

nVidia rejoins testing program - CNet

I guess somewhere right now Kyle is laughing.

=sigh= based on everything else nvidia has been doing, it probably means they've worked out the bribe amount with Futuremark to have 3DMark changed to hide nv weaknesses in shaders and floating point.

so not only did nvidia NOT apologize, but they bad-mouthed the validity of futuremark and now they rejoin

 

[GTaudiophile]

On a side note, theinq thinks that ATI and Nvidia are colluding to cool down graphics war!

Also of note...

Rick Bergman, ATI's VP of Desktops presented at the Pacific Crest Securities Investors Conference Forum. Some highlights

1. 9600 is shipping in volume with no yield issues.
2. R4xx will be the next generation chip next year and have hundreds of millions of transistors on .13um
3. Integrated will be important going forward in desktop segment

 

[MDE]

Originally posted by: BingBongWongFooey
Huh? They call that an "editorial?" He has missing commas and stupid stuff all over the place. Rant, yes, editorial, no. He needs a proofreader or two.

edit: Christ, this is horrible.

That is not what I want to talk about however.

Quite frankly, I don?t like not having that ability taken from me either.

WTF are you talking about? His punctuation is fine. (Taking off Grammar Police suit)

Everyone rants sometime, and I believe Kyle has the perfect opportunity right now, seeing how long Nvidia has slapped him around and lied to him. Do most people condone Nvidia's actions? No. But people just buy what appears to be the 'best' at the moment, as I did when I bought parts for my system. I personally don't like Nvidia, but their Athlon chipsets kicked the snot out of anything VIA could muster at the beginning of the year, and how can you turn down a GF4 Ti 4600 for $120 when you're using a PCI Radeon? Basically what I'm saying is don't bother with trying to control the top brass at any company with polls, petitions, or rants. If you don't like a company, don't buy their products. Unfortunately these days money seems to be the ultimate way to control people (well, that and putting an ice pick to their temple and pushing in more and more).

 

[Grminalac]

All advertising is bull$hit. No company is going to say gee we are second fastest and cost more lets tell the public that. All commercials and ads are biased from the jeep liberty driving underwater to dramatisations of little specks of tide magically blasting away dirt in the washing machine. Do you think POST would have made one cent from Grape Nuts had the commercial showed the truth that noone can eat grape nuts without breaking a godd@mn tooth. Corporate pr is always going to favor the company... bottom line. Nobody is losing out on the NVidia PR game. Enthusiasts already know which card to buy based on research they do and everybody else just buys whatever their OEM puts in their system not giving a $hit about filtering in Unreal tournament.
FYI. People that get off on 3Dmark scores are morons anyway and deserve to be ripped off.

 

[Barnaby W. Füi]

Originally posted by: MonkeyDriveExpress

Originally posted by: BingBongWongFooey
Huh? They call that an "editorial?" He has missing commas and stupid stuff all over the place. Rant, yes, editorial, no. He needs a proofreader or two.

edit: Christ, this is horrible.

That is not what I want to talk about however.

Quite frankly, I don?t like not having that ability taken from me either.

WTF are you talking about? His punctuation is fine. (Taking off Grammar Police suit)

Everyone rants sometime, and I believe Kyle has the perfect opportunity right now, seeing how long Nvidia has slapped him around and lied to him. Do most people condone Nvidia's actions? No. But people just buy what appears to be the 'best' at the moment, as I did when I bought parts for my system. I personally don't like Nvidia, but their Athlon chipsets kicked the snot out of anything VIA could muster at the beginning of the year, and how can you turn down a GF4 Ti 4600 for $120 when you're using a PCI Radeon? Basically what I'm saying is don't bother with trying to control the top brass at any company with polls, petitions, or rants. If you don't like a company, don't buy their products. Unfortunately these days money seems to be the ultimate way to control people (well, that and putting an ice pick to their temple and pushing in more and more).

Quite frankly, it's not just his wrong spelling that isn't not right.. er, yeah. There were tons of things in there that just read BADLY.

And shouldn't the first sentence be something like, "However, that is not what I want to talk about" ?

It just seems wrong to me when someone writes a sentence like that without a comma it is almost as bad as people that write run on sentences and leave out question marks that really bugs me doesn't it bug you.

 

[Grminalac]

C'mon Fooey kyle is too busy wit his hard mofo peeps, bangin hoes and being a straight up ghostface killa to worry about grammar.

 

[dartworth]

Originally posted by: Grminalac
C'mon Fooey kyle is too busy wit his hard mofo peeps, bangin hoes and being a straight up ghostface killa to worry about grammar.

word

 

[ElFenix]

Originally posted by: cHr0nIc
This whole thing remindes me of the time when 3DFX told everybody that they don't need 32bit color depth, in a time when 32bit color was standard.

32 bit wasn't standard at the time, the only card that could run it reasonably was the TNT2. at least 3dfx was right up front about it instead of nvidia hiding in the shadows like they're doing.

 

[vash]

Kyle likes to whine a lot. He likes to whine about what is "right" and what is "not". Yes, he likes ATI cards and yes, he doesn't like Nvidia cards and what they do to benchmarks, etc. I also believe that he won't be getting his NV40 samples, like other webmasters that didn't need to write multiple editorials about how bad Nvidia is. He can whine all he likes, its not really going to change a thing.

vash

 

[Slammy1]

Originally posted by: BingBongWongFooey
And shouldn't the first sentence be something like, "However, that is not what I want to talk about" ?

Actually, I think it should be:
"This, however, is not what I want to talk about"

 

[wicktron]

People need to just chill for a minute.

 

[TerryMathews]

Talk about a rock and a hard place. I've gotta choose between sub-par hardware (nVidia) or nonexistant long-term driver support (ATi). Man I hope nV has some good cheap hardware by the time HL2 ships. Else, I'll probably hang onto me trusty Ti4200.

 

[OddTSi]

Originally posted by: TerryMathews
Talk about a rock and a hard place. I've gotta choose between sub-par hardware (nVidia) or nonexistant long-term driver support (ATi).

Who says ATi lacks driver support? In fact, haven't they been coming out with driver updates just as often (if not more so) as nVidia has?

 

[buleyb]

Why no mention about ATI quietly removing their "optimizations" from their drivers that show up in some benchmarks...

This was blantently hushed up during the nvidia scandal.




and Kyle needs to chill. I believe #s and experience, not rants and accusations.

 

[DaveSimmons]

Originally posted by: buleyb
Why no mention about ATI quietly removing their "optimizations" from their drivers that show up in some benchmarks...

This was blantently hushed up during the nvidia scandal.

You mean the 3DMark shader optimzations that they admitted to instead of lawyering up and denying?

AFAIK, ATI only had some minor cheats in 3DMark which they are removing. nV has been caught with much more extensive 3DMark cheats, which they lawyered Futuremark into saying might be considered "optimizations," plus image-quality hacks in real games that degrade image quality and which they're refusing to give people control over.

Do I forgive or ignore ATI's behavior? Not at all. But right now, their cheating has no effect on real gameplay, or to put it as the nvidia apologists were saying earlier: "I don't play 3DMark."

 

[cHr0nIc]

Originally posted by: ElFenix

Originally posted by: cHr0nIc
This whole thing remindes me of the time when 3DFX told everybody that they don't need 32bit color depth, in a time when 32bit color was standard.

32 bit wasn't standard at the time, the only card that could run it reasonably was the TNT2.

Just because the TNT2 was "the only card that could run [32bit color] reasonably", doesn't mean that 32bit wasn't a standard. All other video chip/card manufacturers, except 3Dfx, had supported 32bit by mid - late 1998, regardless of how bad it was implimented.

 

[erikistired]

yeah a few ppl have missed the bigger picture and a few haven't. i don't really care if they tweak the benchmarks or whatever, but when you take my ability to max out picture quality away from me so that your card runs ut2k3 a little faster so you can say "we're #1!" "we're #1!" then you lose my business. and i realize nvidia doesn't care about us, but people do use google to find reviews and if they get things like kyle's rant in return they might learn something and go "wow it sucks what they are doing, bitboys oy is getting my money!" errr, ati rather. *cough*

i just bought a radeon 9700. the gf4 4200/4600 were in consideration, but i wouldn't touch the fx cards, i want to have control over maxing out my graphics quality. that's the whole point of spending all this money eh? if i wanted fugly speed i could spend 50 bucks on an mx card and shoot at blocks instead of people.

 

[OneOfTheseDays]

In order for NVIDIA to ever change, they need these kind of editorials to be published by all 3d hardware sites. The kind of negative pressure that it would generate would force Nvidia to change because their image would be tarnished. As it stands, the average user doesn't know about the cheats they implement.

 

[TerryMathews]

Originally posted by: OddTSi

Originally posted by: TerryMathews
Talk about a rock and a hard place. I've gotta choose between sub-par hardware (nVidia) or nonexistant long-term driver support (ATi).

Who says ATi lacks driver support? In fact, haven't they been coming out with driver updates just as often (if not more so) as nVidia has?

You're new here, aren't you? :squint:

ATi has a long history of dropping support for graphics chips which are no longer a main staple of their business, irregardless of how many of said chips may be still in use. Perfect example:

ATi Rage LT Pro. AKA ATi Rage Pro and Rage Mobility. Was estimated to have been sold in the millions and there could be as many as half a million (conservitavely) still in use today. From the date of it's introduction up until after the Rage 128 Pro era, if you bought a laptop, this was the video chip you got in it.

So surely ATi makes sure that the drivers for this chip are still up to date right? I mean, it's fast enough for basic 640x480 gaming. Surely ATi keeps it up to date so that people can still play Half-Life right? I mean, it would be insane for what is most likely the most popular graphics chip in history to not have a driver update since 2000 right?

Has ATi turned over a new leaf? Time will tell, but I'm not taking any chances. ATi has screwed me far too many times. nVidia at least keeps their drivers up to date. As far as these 'optimizations', well I certainly don't condone it but I can understand why they did it. Everyone cheats, or at least that's the mentality. As was pointed out, ATi cheated as well. Does 'Everyone is doing it' make everything OK? No, of course not. Right is right and wrong is wrong. Unfortunately, the business world has little to do with right and wrong especially when your main customers are Dell and Microsoft.

 

[Chaotic42]

Bah, just get rid of 3D mark. Both companies need to work on their product support. This is starting to remind me of the old days when card X wouldn't work well (or at all) with game Y.