KY tries to require prescription for psuedofed

[chris9641]

I don't know if this has been posted in another thread, but bath salts have now been reported as being abused by people giving similar effects to amphetamine. Maybe this is a result of desperate people finding a way around the recent Sudafed restrictions?

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2011/02/01/earlyshow/health/main7305536.shtml

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

Wrong again.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salbutamol

They are both Bronchodilators and have no effect on the sinuses.

As for how Pseudoephedrine works, maybe you should have read the link??



As someone who has been dealing with allergies and sinus infections for most of my life, I can attest that Sudafed is the ONLY drug that effectively drains my sinuses.

Actually, you are correct, salbutamol and salmeterol as well as clenbuterol and other agents of the like are not decongestants for your sinuses but rather bronchodilators.

You are correct, i was wrong.

However, isn't xylometazoline HCL a better decongestant for sinus problems? It's local acting and very cheap, i don't think there is a nation on earth that doesn't sell it OTC either?

It can be used in other ways though but as it should remain OTC i am not going to say how.

I'm sorry for arguing against you on this one, i was thinking of bronchodilators and not decongestants and i was wrong.

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

But they are decongestants for different things. You could call Breath Right strips "decongestants", but they do fuck all for allergies.

True, as i recognized below, i mistook bronchodilators for decongestants.

There are albutamol nasal inhalors though, they should count as decongestants, right? There are also steroidal inhalors but i'd argue against them because you shouldn't use corticosteroids if not absolutely needed, however, they'd still be better than using something that will affect your entire body.

I'm not saying that i wasn't wrong, i was, i'm not backpedaling either because i admit i was wrong, i am just thinking that something like pseudoephedrine would be a lousy decongestant because it affects your entire body while something like xylometazoline HCL is local acting.

 

[Amused]

Actually, you are correct, salbutamol and salmeterol as well as clenbuterol and other agents of the like are not decongestants for your sinuses but rather bronchodilators.

You are correct, i was wrong.

However, isn't xylometazoline HCL a better decongestant for sinus problems? It's local acting and very cheap, i don't think there is a nation on earth that doesn't sell it OTC either?

It can be used in other ways though but as it should remain OTC i am not going to say how.

I'm sorry for arguing against you on this one, i was thinking of bronchodilators and not decongestants and i was wrong.

That's cool. I was having a WTF with you moment but glad that's over with. 🙂

No, because xylometazoline has rebound effects and cannot be used daily without seriously losing effectiveness. It's great for a day or two with a cold, but any and all topical decongestants have a rebound effect when they wear off making you worse than before.

 

[Steeplerot]

I don't know if this has been posted in another thread, but bath salts have now been reported as being abused by people giving similar effects to amphetamine. Maybe this is a result of desperate people finding a way around the recent Sudafed restrictions?

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2011/02/01/earlyshow/health/main7305536.shtml

Ah bath salts, the human brains equivalent of plugging your cell phone directly into a 240volt line. What a horrible way to get high. Or at least maintain not getting sick. *shudder*

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

That's cool. I was having a WTF with you moment but glad that's over with. 🙂

No, because xylometazoline has rebound effects and cannot be used daily without seriously losing effectiveness. It's great for a day or two with a cold, but any and all topical decongestants have a rebound effect when they wear off making you worse than before.

That's strange, i have a bottle right here and it says 10 days maximum use. I've used it for ten days before withouth any problems, without it losing effectiveness and without it having any side effects.

That is personal experience though, but i'm fairly sure studes back that up or it wouldn't be allowed in print on the bottle.

I do know that my sister had to use a nasal cortisol inhaler after using it more than 20 days and getting "addicted" to it but after ten days you really should see a doctor anyway.

As far as i'm aware it's the no1 treatment that has brought down sinus infections to less than one tenth of what it used to be in the UK.

 

[Darwin333]

Ah bath salts, the human brains equivalent of plugging your cell phone directly into a 240volt line. What a horrible way to get high. Or at least maintain not getting sick. *shudder*

Just to clarify, they were never really bath salts. The manufacturer always intended to sell them as a recreational drug and they simply circumvented the FDA. It is just like the "spice" and "potpourri" that is basically man made weed that doesn't show up on a drug test. I have never even heard of a person that pays $15 for a gram of potpourri in a liquor store. OTOH, I do know some stoners that are happy to pay a premium to be able to pass random drug screenings.

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

Cool. The reason I don't know this is because I only buy no name stuff. My benedryl is diphenhydramine, and the extra strength no name pain killer is a mixture of acetaminophen and caffeine 😀

Acetaminophen isn't a NSAID though but you can mix it with diclofenac which makes both more potent.

Diclofenac is an NSAID and a very potent one at that, but i'm not sure if it's OTC in the US.

There is always ibuprofen though, that'll work too, just not as well and not if you have high blood pressure or factor 6 or 7.

 

[Darwin333]

Ah bath salts, the human brains equivalent of plugging your cell phone directly into a 240volt line. What a horrible way to get high. Or at least maintain not getting sick. *shudder*

Just to clarify, they were never really bath salts. The manufacturer always intended to sell them as a recreational drug and they simply circumvented the FDA. It is just like the "spice" and "potpourri" that is basically man made weed that doesn't show up on a drug test. I have never even heard of a person that pays $15 for a gram of potpourri in a liquor store. OTOH, I do know some stoners that are happy to pay a premium to be able to pass random drug screenings.

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

Ah bath salts, the human brains equivalent of plugging your cell phone directly into a 240volt line. What a horrible way to get high. Or at least maintain not getting sick. *shudder*

It's crank in a legal purchased bottle, LITERALLY.

(crank is badly made and unpredictable meth, mostly unpredictable because the strenght varies very much and the dilution of it is either nothing or detergent)

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

Just to clarify, they were never really bath salts. The manufacturer always intended to sell them as a recreational drug and they simply circumvented the FDA. It is just like the "spice" and "potpourri" that is basically man made weed that doesn't show up on a drug test. I have never even heard of a person that pays $15 for a gram of potpourri in a liquor store. OTOH, I do know some stoners that are happy to pay a premium to be able to pass random drug screenings.

I don't think spice would pass a drug screening considering it's synthetic THC which acts just the same as any other THC, it's in your hypothalamus for a long time after the last use.

 

[hal2kilo]

Most of it isn't made by chemists. You can tell by how often meth labs explode. Chemists don't do stupid shit like smoke cigarettes near ether or work with ether in non ventilated areas.
Similarly, most pot growers are not botanists.

Why is meth is a rural US thing? Up in Canada, rural people are usually all smokers and drinkers. Chewing tobacco seems really common as well.



Cool. The reason I don't know this is because I only buy no name stuff. My benedryl is diphenhydramine, and the extra strength no name pain killer is a mixture of acetaminophen and caffeine 😀

Cooking meth stinks to high heaven. Hard to hide the smell. That's why it's either mobile or out in the sticks.

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

Cooking meth stinks to high heaven. Hard to hide the smell. That's why it's either mobile or out in the sticks.

Proper filters (as used by some people to make a trigger point ammonia-iodine mix and the TATP agent) costs aren't that high.

I think it has more to do with that they live where they live and have to make a living rather than that they are high rollers moving there to escape law enforcement.

But that's just me being captain obvious.

 

[hal2kilo]

Proper filters (as used by some people to make a trigger point ammonia-iodine mix and the TATP agent) costs aren't that high.

I think it has more to do with that they live where they live and have to make a living rather than that they are high rollers moving there to escape law enforcement.

But that's just me being captain obvious.

It's either the iodine/red phosphorous route or the lithium/anhydrous amonia route (Nazis method). Don't think there's a iodine/ammonia method. Both use hydrochloric acid or hydogen chloride gas to fix the base to a salt (makes it a water soluable solid).

 

[Steeplerot]

The dangerous fire hazard part of a meth lab is the chemicals used to strip the gel coatings off of the pills. The cooking the drugs part is low temperature that is done in pyrex over a burner. (yes I have had awful roommates who set up a lab -I moved out but watched them cook it out of curiosity) The acetone that they cut it with is the stinky stuff. You can smell that shit a mile away when they were cooking.

disclaimer: I hate meth, I will never touch it as I have seen far to many good people turn to husks of their former selves, personally I don't know whats worse, H (that kills your friends in a few months). Or meth, that slowly eats what they were away over years. As a person with a phone book full of friends no longer around from drugs, I hope meth is cut off at the source in this country (as they did to quaaludes in the 80s) as the base part of the drug cannot be synthesized or grown in a backyard.

 

[Rockinacoustic]

True, as i recognized below, i mistook bronchodilators for decongestants.

There are albutamol nasal inhalors though, they should count as decongestants, right? There are also steroidal inhalors but i'd argue against them because you shouldn't use corticosteroids if not absolutely needed, however, they'd still be better than using something that will affect your entire body.

I'm not saying that i wasn't wrong, i was, i'm not backpedaling either because i admit i was wrong, i am just thinking that something like pseudoephedrine would be a lousy decongestant because it affects your entire body while something like xylometazoline HCL is local acting.

I don't know of any Albuterol nasal inhalers here in the U.S. (and quite frankly don't see the point since Beta-2 agonists target the broncioles and would get mostly absorbed by nasal mucosa). They are all delivered via MDI's or respules AFAIK.

Nasal spray corticosteroids (i.e. Nasonex and Flonase) DO indeed fight congestion by hindering the immune response that produces the inflammation. This is different from decongestant medications like pseudoephedrine or phenylephrine which acts as vasoconstrictors and decrease the excretion of lymph fluid produced by the immune system.

As for oxymetazoline vs. pseudoephedrine, the former is good primarily as a nasal decongestant while the later targets both nasal and sinus congestion. A lot of people don't realize though that pseudoephedrine is contraindicated with people who have high BP or are on certain anti-psychotic medications.

 

[ayabe]

Most of it isn't made by chemists. You can tell by how often meth labs explode. Chemists don't do stupid shit like smoke cigarettes near ether or work with ether in non ventilated areas.
Similarly, most pot growers are not botanists.

Why is meth is a rural US thing? Up in Canada, rural people are usually all smokers and drinkers. Chewing tobacco seems really common as well.

I should have put "chemists" in quotes, I was being factitious.

It's certainly not restricted to rural areas but seems more prevalent. I'm assuming mostly out of lack of access to other drugs.

 

[Darwin333]

I don't think spice would pass a drug screening considering it's synthetic THC which acts just the same as any other THC, it's in your hypothalamus for a long time after the last use.

I know a guy who took a drug screen while he was high on spice, as well as a daily user, and passed without an issue. He didn't do anything special like chug a bunch of water to dilute his urine or anything.

I have never heard of anyone failing due to it.

 

[xj0hnx]

I know a guy who took a drug screen while he was high on spice, as well as a daily user, and passed without an issue. He didn't do anything special like chug a bunch of water to dilute his urine or anything.

I have never heard of anyone failing due to it.

If he took the test while high than it likely hadn't metabolized through his system yet.

 

[ShawnD1]

The dangerous fire hazard part of a meth lab is the chemicals used to strip the gel coatings off of the pills.

Most of the decongestants I've had in the past never had a coating on them. The reason jibbers use organic solvents is because the chemical they are trying to extract has low water solubility. Even as a hydrochloride salt, the solubility isn't very high. In something like ether or acetone, solubility is very high.

The cooking the drugs part is low temperature that is done in pyrex over a burner. (yes I have had awful roommates who set up a lab -I moved out but watched them cook it out of curiosity) The acetone that they cut it with is the stinky stuff. You can smell that shit a mile away when they were cooking.

Your room mates are retards. Acetone is infinitely soluble in water, so the way to vent boiling acetone without a smell is to bubble it through water. It will dissolve in the water, then you can pour the water down the sink.
In a chem lab, reactions done at boiling temperature are done by passing running water around the fractionating column. Solvent boils, the vapor goes half way up the column, it cools, condenses in the column, then drops back down.


thread irony: a thread about how bullshit it is to ban sudafed because it's used to make meth has turned into a thread about how to use sudafed to make meth 😀

 

[xj0hnx]

The dangerous fire hazard part of a meth lab is the chemicals used to strip the gel coatings off of the pills. The cooking the drugs part is low temperature that is done in pyrex over a burner. (yes I have had awful roommates who set up a lab -I moved out but watched them cook it out of curiosity) The acetone that they cut it with is the stinky stuff. You can smell that shit a mile away when they were cooking.

disclaimer: I hate meth, I will never touch it as I have seen far to many good people turn to husks of their former selves, personally I don't know whats worse, H (that kills your friends in a few months). Or meth, that slowly eats what they were away over years. As a person with a phone book full of friends no longer around from drugs, I hope meth is cut off at the source in this country (as they did to quaaludes in the 80s) as the base part of the drug cannot be synthesized or grown in a backyard.

Acetone stinks, but it isn't what produces the worst of the smells, nor is it the most dangerous chemical used ...by a long shot.

personally I don't know whats worse, H (that kills your friends in a few months). Or meth, that slowly eats what they were away over years.

Ignorance is what's worse than either

 

[zsdersw]

I guess I'm lucky... don't have allergies or get colds (anything serious enough to need decongestants), or use meth.

But come on, we all know that a government ban on something is the best way to stop its use. /sarcasm

 

[Steeplerot]

Your room mates are retards.

thread irony: a thread about how bullshit it is to ban sudafed because it's used to make meth has turned into a thread about how to use sudafed to make meth 😀

Yes, my roommates WERE retards, I moved the hell out. If they were cooking wrong as you say I am doubly glad I got out fast.

Yeah, this is probably TMI on some levels. Anyhow, screw meth. Why cant people smoke some herb and chill if they want an escape, why get all complicated and life ruining. Too much hassle for a old toker like me.

 

[Steeplerot]

But come on, we all know that a government ban on something is the best way to stop its use. /sarcasm

Bans can work if the main element of the supply has to come from a giant factory somewhere that can be regulated.
If people are synthesizing tiny amounts for big costs and risk meth becomes unprofitable to create/distribute. This is why we do not see Quaaludes anymore. (there was only 1 factory in the world that made the chemical for it -once the DEA cut off the gangsters from buying the base component Quaaludes became literally a memory of the past)


Stuff that can be grown/distilled in someones backyard in decent enough quantity for selling on the streets is the notoriously difficult (if not impossible to ever regulate). -like alcohol, opiate, weed, coke, and shrooms

 

[ayabe]

I know a guy who took a drug screen while he was high on spice, as well as a daily user, and passed without an issue. He didn't do anything special like chug a bunch of water to dilute his urine or anything.

I have never heard of anyone failing due to it.

It's synthetic THC, similar but not the same and does not get caught by any current drug tests.

That's why Spice, K2, etc are pretty popular with people who get randomly tested...like cops.