Koch brothers: wealth grew from $7.5 billion to $50 billion in last seven years

[spidey07]

*rubs eyes* Seriously?

Oh i don't know, maybe it's because they're the loudest cocksuckers about 'small government'?

Just face it, Obama revealed the liberal agenda and American Tax Payers have resoundingly said - "fuck no you don't".

See you in November 2012. You're on the wrong side of history.

 

[Phokus]

Just face it, Obama revealed the liberal agenda and American Tax Payers have resoundingly said - "fuck no you don't".

See you in November 2012. You're on the wrong side of history.

LMAO, 'liberal agenda'. You're ALL ABOUT the liberal agenda (aka, your "gravy") you hypocritical piece of shit.

 

[spidey07]

What it really comes down to is that the super rich have transcended the need for more money, at least in terms the rest of us use wrt money. Having a net worth of $7B or $50B makes no difference in terms of lifestyle.

It's about power, about the power to influence the world around them in a myriad of ways, to shape society. The real question is are we willing to let that happen, to allow a very few to set the course of the nation to benefit themselves, even if it's at the expense of the rest of us. At critical junctures in the past we've found it necessary to limit that power as a means of self defense, as during the progressive era 100 years ago and again in the 1930's. Today is no different, even if we haven't figured it out quite yet.

We're ready for you progressive libtard broke ass fucks.

Bring it. I dare you. Bring it.

 

[LegendKiller]

We're ready for you progressive libtard broke ass fucks.

Bring it. I dare you. Bring it.

Says the guy who is proud to be contributing to making his own state/country a broke-ass-fuck.

 

[rchiu]

What exactly are you liberals attacking?

The existence of the derivative market or Koch's participation in the derivative market?

If you wanna attack the existence of the derivative market, maybe you should check the reason why it exists in the first place and how it allows companies to reduce risk and trading costs.

If you wanna attack Koch, maybe you should first have some info on how much of their asset is allocated in pure speculative trades and trades that would increase price. Without those info, this is basically a witch hunt.

 

[trenchfoot]

What it really comes down to is that the super rich have transcended the need for more money, at least in terms the rest of us use wrt money. Having a net worth of $7B or $50B makes no difference in terms of lifestyle.

It's about power, about the power to influence the world around them in a myriad of ways, to shape society. The real question is are we willing to let that happen, to allow a very few to set the course of the nation to benefit themselves, even if it's at the expense of the rest of us. At critical junctures in the past we've found it necessary to limit that power as a means of self defense, as during the progressive era 100 years ago and again in the 1930's. Today is no different, even if we haven't figured it out quite yet.

So true....so true.

 

[umbrella39]

Just face it, Obama revealed the liberal agenda and American Tax Payers have resoundingly said - "fuck no you don't".

See you in November 2012. You're on the wrong side of history.

See you in 5 years tops, behind bars (estimate revised secondary to extreme crazy).

 

[Matthiasa]

We're ready for you progressive libtard broke ass fucks.

Bring it. I dare you. Bring it.

Dude... get a job... or work at it, either way.
Till then no more posts kay? (In regards to being such a hypocrite)

 

[Jhhnn]

We're ready for you progressive libtard broke ass fucks.

Bring it. I dare you. Bring it.

Zero content, Spidey, other than rage & denial. Might want to wipe the foam off from around your mouth.

 

[Craig234]

This is some weak sauce analysis.

No, you made an obnoxious, idiotic comment.

They are own an oil business in a period where the price went up dramatically so of course their wealth increased, I'm not following what's wrong with that.

You can't read. I linked information discussing their oil speculation.

 

[Craig234]

What exactly are you liberals attacking?

The existence of the derivative market or Koch's participation in the derivative market?

If you wanna attack the existence of the derivative market, maybe you should check the reason why it exists in the first place and how it allows companies to reduce risk and trading costs.

If you wanna attack Koch, maybe you should first have some info on how much of their asset is allocated in pure speculative trades and trades that would increase price. Without those info, this is basically a witch hunt.

I'm so tired of ignorant imbeciles (who are too often named 'rchiu').

The most basic understanding of the commodities derivatives market distinguishes between the 'legitimate' role it has, and the harmful, excessive 'speculation' abuse.

The link I posted explicitly discusses the difference between the two regarding the Kochs' investments.

I'd explain 'what I'm attacking', but my patience in doing so for 'rchiu' has worn.

 

[rchiu]

No, you made an obnoxious, idiotic comment.



You can't read. I linked information discussing their oil speculation.

So exactly how much of their wealth come from oil speculation.

And how much of those are coming from long position on oil speculation? (you do know that short position have negative impact on oil price right?)

 

[Craig234]

What it really comes down to is that the super rich have transcended the need for more money, at least in terms the rest of us use wrt money. Having a net worth of $7B or $50B makes no difference in terms of lifestyle.

It's about power, about the power to influence the world around them in a myriad of ways, to shape society. The real question is are we willing to let that happen, to allow a very few to set the course of the nation to benefit themselves, even if it's at the expense of the rest of us. At critical junctures in the past we've found it necessary to limit that power as a means of self defense, as during the progressive era 100 years ago and again in the 1930's. Today is no different, even if we haven't figured it out quite yet.

Yup. It's about ego, there is never enough; all they have is to get more. It's about the percent increase. There is no amount at which they say 'that's too much'. The only direction they have is 'more'. It's their identity, their hobby, their passion and obsession (if self-made), the default agenda (if inherited). There's no one to say 'this isn't good for society' but the voters, and they're heavily propagandized not to.

 

[Patranus]

The "progressives" act like they have this in a money bin filled with gold coins that they swim in every day Scrooge McDuck style.

This money is tied up in their business ventures which....wait for it.....employ people.

 

[superccs]

Classic. Elevating themselves on the backs of others. Sounds a lot like slavery is back in session in America.

 

[Craig234]

Koch industries provides energy, I never said their profits would dissapear.

Yes, you did. Why do some people need what they said repeated back so much?

If speculators bid up gas prices beyond what actual supply & demand say they should be they get hosed if they're wrong when prices go back down. You can't just bid up prices to gain profits arbitrarily.

This shows you have no idea how speculation works, only a simplistic phrase about 'supply and demand' that makes it impossible to make net money on speculation.

According to you, if they 'make a lot of money bidding up gas prices beyond supply and demand', then that money will have to be lost when 'supply and demand' forces the prices down. Legendkiller explained to you how speculators actually do make profits they keep, large ones, driving the price up above 'supply and demand'. Simple logic says the massive sums made this way are parasitical extractions of wealth from the people paying the inflated prices.

 

[dmcowen674]

Simple logic says the massive sums made this way are parasitical extractions of wealth from the people paying the inflated prices.

Simple logic no longer applies when it comes to robbing the little people.

 

[Patranus]

@Craig234: George Soros has almost tripled his net worth since 2007.

Where is "ThinkProgress" on that?
(Oh wait, Soros gave the organization that runs ThinkProgress $3 million - LOL)

 

[halik]

What exactly are you liberals attacking?

The existence of the derivative market or Koch's participation in the derivative market?

If you wanna attack the existence of the derivative market, maybe you should check the reason why it exists in the first place and how it allows companies to reduce risk and trading costs.

If you wanna attack Koch, maybe you should first have some info on how much of their asset is allocated in pure speculative trades and trades that would increase price. Without those info, this is basically a witch hunt.

There's a big difference between providing price discovery (ie speculation) and using commodities as a hedging and momentum investment vehicle. Plowing boatloads of institutional money into some asset class is probably not a way to find what' the asset is worth.

 

[halik]

Yes, you did. Why do some people need what they said repeated back so much?



This shows you have no idea how speculation works, only a simplistic phrase about 'supply and demand' that makes it impossible to make net money on speculation.

According to you, if they 'make a lot of money bidding up gas prices beyond supply and demand', then that money will have to be lost when 'supply and demand' forces the prices down. Legendkiller explained to you how speculators actually do make profits they keep, large ones, driving the price up above 'supply and demand'. Simple logic says the massive sums made this way are parasitical extractions of wealth from the people paying the inflated prices.

Not exactly, they extract money from the greater fool theory - ie whoever they sell the asset to. The unfortunate byproduct is the wealth transfer from people that need the asset to the people that make it - whether it be people looking to buy jewelry and gold mining cos or anyone with a car vs refiners and O&G conglomerates.

 

[rchiu]

There's a big difference between providing price discovery (ie speculation) and using commodities as a hedging and momentum investment vehicle. Plowing boatloads of institutional money into some asset class is probably not a way to find what' the asset is worth.

That's not the definition of price discovery. You don't plow boatload of money into some asset "trying to find what's the price". You plow boatload of money when you think the asset is mis-priced. Therefore the mechanism is suppose to correct mis-pricing in the system.

 

[Karl Agathon]

@Craig234: George Soros has almost tripled his net worth since 2007.

Where is "ThinkProgress" on that?
(Oh wait, Soros gave the organization that runs ThinkProgress $3 million - LOL)

interesting....

 

[Craig234]

@Craig234: George Soros has almost tripled his net worth since 2007.

Where is "ThinkProgress" on that?
(Oh wait, Soros gave the organization that runs ThinkProgress $3 million - LOL)

And? Can you show anything is wrong in the info? I didn't think so.

 

[rchiu]

Yes, you did. Why do some people need what they said repeated back so much?



This shows you have no idea how speculation works, only a simplistic phrase about 'supply and demand' that makes it impossible to make net money on speculation.

According to you, if they 'make a lot of money bidding up gas prices beyond supply and demand', then that money will have to be lost when 'supply and demand' forces the prices down. Legendkiller explained to you how speculators actually do make profits they keep, large ones, driving the price up above 'supply and demand'. Simple logic says the massive sums made this way are parasitical extractions of wealth from the people paying the inflated prices.

Again, do you even know speculation can be done through long or short position, which can bid up/down price? So what makes you so certain that derivative market only have one way impact on oil price? traders can make money buying or selling derivatives, why are they just bidding up the price not down? You ever think of that?

Sure derivative market is just like any other markets, industries, there are lots of money to be made for those who knows how to play it right. Yes the market is not 100% efficient. Yes if you have big enough capital you may be able to manipulate the market. But given derivative market is world wide, it will be tough to do.

Bottom line, derivative market has benefits and currently the benefit outweighs any cost due to market inefficiency. And as for Koch brothers, again, you have absolutely no proof of the amount they invested in speculative market, the instrument they invested in and if those instrument has positive, negative, long term, short term or neutral impact on oil price.

All you have is unsubstantiated attack because those guys hold a different view from you liberals.

 

[Double Trouble]

How cute, another complete failure of a thread.