Knowing and following the law, still get assaulted and arrested

[theeedude]

Lawsuit coming. NYPD will settle for $$$$$$. Cop did the guy a favor.

 

[DrPizza]

After actually watching the video:

Oh puh-leeze. "Hitting the man in the face with the guitar"? Seriously?

The OP is written to mislead people into thinking this:

assault with a deadly weapon (heavy object to the head - could be fatal with 1 shot)

Reality: the guy had a guitar strap on the guitar. The officer was taking the guitar away from the guy. In the process of removing it, the guy is barely bumped in the head with the neck of the guitar.


If, in fact, the MTA does prohibit such public performances that don't have permission, then the officer handled it very well. He waited until he had assistance, took the guys guitar from him, and handcuffed him.


Some of you guys are trying a little too hard with these cop threads.

 

[Brainonska511]

If, in fact, the MTA does prohibit such public performances that don't have permission, then the officer handled it very well. He waited until he had assistance, took the guys guitar from him, and handcuffed him.

As far as I know, there is no outright ban on un-permitted platform performances by the MTA. link

The Rule which regulates the provision of entertainment on the subway is Section 1050.6 (c). Some features of this Rule are listed below. This description should NOT be considered a full explanation of all aspects of this rule, but only a brief and general summary. All persons who are interested in performing on the subway and who wish to avoid violating the law are strongly advised to contact New York City Transit beforehand to get a copy of the Rules of Conduct, as well as a more complete explanation of their requirements.

Some general rules for performing on the subway include (but are not limited to) the following:

1. Artistic performances on transit facilities are permitted, but only if they are in accordance with the following rules AND if they do not impede transit activities, including access to the trains and stations and the free movement of passengers. All artistic performances which violate these rules OR which impede transit activities are forbidden.
2. You may not perform on board a subway train or a bus.
3. You may not perform within 25 feet of a token booth.
4. You may not perform within 50 feet of the marked entrance of a New York City Transit office or tower, or in any areas not open to the public.
5. You may not perform on or near a platform where construction, renovation, or maintenance work is actively underway.
6. You may not make excessive noise, or any noise which interferes with transit operations. (Note: Consult the text of the rule for the specific decibel levels defined as "excessive noise.").
7. You may not use media devices, such as films, slides, or videotapes.
8. You may not use an amplification device of any kind on a platform.
9. You may not use a sound production device during public announcements made by Transit employees or police.
10. Special rules govern the use of the locations designated for the &#"Music Under New York" component of the MTA's "Arts for Transit" program. Arts for Transit may be contacted directly at (212) 878-7452.
11. Some station platforms are so narrow that any performance will always interfere with passenger movement. In certain other locations (including some platforms and passageways), performances which create no obstruction during off-peak times may create obstructions during rush hours. In addition, even designated performance locations can become unsuitable because of unexpected service disruptions or emergencies. It is therefore not possible to list locations in which performances are always allowed. Performers should use common sense before choosing a location in which to perform, and in all cases must comply with the lawful orders and directives of police and Transit employees.
12. You may accept donations for your performance, but you may not use your performance as an excuse for active, aggressive solicitation. For example, you may have an open instrument case into which listeners may place donations, but you may not walk through the audience with a container asking for payment.
13. Violations of the above requirements or of any Transit Rule of Conduct may result in the ejection of the violator from the transit system, the issuance of a summons, or the arrest of the violator.

 

[DrPizza]

As far as I know, there is no outright ban on un-permitted platform performances by the MTA. link

Correct. I read that part wrong in one of the news articles. The law that he violated is actually a state law that says artists may not [do what he did] in transportation facilities.

So, it appears there's a conflict between state law which says it's illegal, and MTA rules which allows it. Does the MTA over-ride the state law? (Regardless, of whether it does or not, the cop was being a jerk for not just leaving him alone and seeking clarification elsewhere - or clarifying it for the guy: "yes, I know it's not against the MTA rules. However, those rules don't usurp state law. You can see right here, .... So, please move along so I don't have to arrest you for loitering. Thank you." Cop was simply on a power trip. That thick neck... roid rage?

 

[HumblePie]

Correct. I read that part wrong in one of the news articles. The law that he violated is actually a state law that says artists may not [do what he did] in transportation facilities.

So, it appears there's a conflict between state law which says it's illegal, and MTA rules which allows it. Does the MTA over-ride the state law?

I already said that earlier in this thread. Why did you guys have to skip my post to go back and forth to reach it now?

No, the MTA rules don't override the state law. The cop was correct, and the musician wasn't.

 

[schmuckley]

Translation: I don't like his ideology.

:thumbsup:
404-Assault not found
correction:The cop gently puts his guitar in the case.
No damage to guitar.
Unless he smashed it over his head,it may be wrongful arrest but nothing more.
You should see what the cops do here.

 

[DrPizza]

I already said that earlier in this thread. Why did you guys have to skip my post to go back and forth to reach it now?

No, the MTA rules don't override the state law. The cop was correct, and the musician wasn't.

Yes, I saw what you said, so double checked the news articles. You're correct - I saw your post first. Then, I verified the quote. BUT, I misread it as another section within the MTA rules, rather than a state law.

 

[BoberFett]

Very few people are worse than Hitler. You do have to have an above average level of personal evil to be a conservative (some who vote Republican are just misguided and not actually conservative). To actually be in office as a Republican it has become entirely necessary to be possessed more of evil than of good, that much is obvious. The funny thing is I used to not be of this opinion, it's pieces of filth like you that make me feel otherwise.



I don't like conservative ideology in general. But I've been able to have logical discussions with a few on here. Bober is just a bad human being and I believe legitimately developmentally disabled.

LOL! You're not even worthy of insulting.

Does that count as an insult?

 

[MixMasterTang]

I already said that earlier in this thread. Why did you guys have to skip my post to go back and forth to reach it now?

No, the MTA rules don't override the state law. The cop was correct, and the musician wasn't.

What is the specific law he broke that you keep referencing?

 

[shira]

LOL! You're not even worthy of insulting.

Does that count as an insult?

If the bolded sentence is true, then it counts as a paradox. Therefore the bolded sentence is false. Which means that you're a liar, a fool, or both.

 

[BoberFett]

If the bolded sentence is true, then it counts as a paradox. Therefore the bolded sentence is false. Which means that you're a liar, a fool, or both.

HURF BLURF!

Read the whole post, twit. I recognized that.

 

[Brainonska511]

Correct. I read that part wrong in one of the news articles. The law that he violated is actually a state law that says artists may not [do what he did] in transportation facilities.

So, it appears there's a conflict between state law which says it's illegal, and MTA rules which allows it. Does the MTA over-ride the state law? (Regardless, of whether it does or not, the cop was being a jerk for not just leaving him alone and seeking clarification elsewhere - or clarifying it for the guy: "yes, I know it's not against the MTA rules. However, those rules don't usurp state law. You can see right here, .... So, please move along so I don't have to arrest you for loitering. Thank you." Cop was simply on a power trip. That thick neck... roid rage?

The MTA is a state agency and it lost court cases in regards to its old ban on subway performances (violation of 1st amendment rights), hence the more lax rules. I'd image that state laws would face similar challenges.

Kind of a summary of some case history for busking in the US: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Busking_(U.S._case_law)

 

[The Merg]

Correct. I read that part wrong in one of the news articles. The law that he violated is actually a state law that says artists may not [do what he did] in transportation facilities.

So, it appears there's a conflict between state law which says it's illegal, and MTA rules which allows it. Does the MTA over-ride the state law? (Regardless, of whether it does or not, the cop was being a jerk for not just leaving him alone and seeking clarification elsewhere - or clarifying it for the guy: "yes, I know it's not against the MTA rules. However, those rules don't usurp state law. You can see right here, .... So, please move along so I don't have to arrest you for loitering. Thank you." Cop was simply on a power trip. That thick neck... roid rage?

Absolutely in agreement there.

- Merg

 

[HumblePie]

What is the specific law he broke that you keep referencing?

read the article?

 

[MixMasterTang]

read the article?

Derp Derp, why didn't I think of that!

"But the MTA rules differ from state law, which says entertainers can be arrested for loitering in a transportation facility unless they were specifically authorized to be there."

Maybe you should read a dictionary and look up the word specific.

Edit: Or do you think everything in a news article should be taken as gospel?

 

[HumblePie]

Derp Derp, why didn't I think of that!

"But the MTA rules differ from state law, which says entertainers can be arrested for loitering in a transportation facility unless they were specifically authorized to be there."

Maybe you should read a dictionary and look up the word specific.

Edit: Or do you think everything in a news article should be taken as gospel?

Oh I don't know, the article stated the state loitering law. I just googled NY loitering law and bamm got the answer. But if that is too hard for you...

http://codes.lp.findlaw.com/nycode/PEN/THREE/N/240/240.35

At the end of the law it stipulates

Loiters or remains in any transportation facility, unless specifically authorized to do so, for the purpose of soliciting or engaging in any business, trade or commercial transactions involving the sale of merchandise or services, or for the purpose of entertaining persons by singing, dancing or playing any musical instrument; or 7. Loiters or remains in any transportation facility, or is found sleeping therein, and is unable to give a satisfactory explanation of his presence. Loitering is a violation.

I would think it's not effing rocket science to do a quick 5 second search online once an article pointed you in the right direction without needing the hand holding I just gave you.

 

[MixMasterTang]

Oh I don't know, the article stated the state loitering law. I just googled NY loitering law and bamm got the answer. But if that is too hard for you...

http://codes.lp.findlaw.com/nycode/PEN/THREE/N/240/240.35

At the end of the law it stipulates



I would think it's not effing rocket science to do a quick 5 second search online once an article pointed you in the right direction without needing the hand holding I just gave you.

The following nontransit uses are permitted by the Authority, provided they do not impede transit activities and they are conducted in accordance with these rules: public speaking; campaigning; leafletting or distribution of written noncommercial materials; activities intended to encourage and facilitate voter registration; artistic performances, including the acceptance of donations.

The law you posted states that it's only against the law unless you are NOT "specifically authorized", the MTA has their own law saying "following nontransit uses are permitted by the Authority" and yet I'm the one who can't put together information?

 

[The Merg]

One thing to consider is if what the MTA allows are considered to be rules and regulations. If so, NY state law would supersede them.

- Merg

 

[DominionSeraph]

The law you posted states that it's only against the law unless you are NOT "specifically authorized", the MTA has their own law saying "following nontransit uses are permitted by the Authority" and yet I'm the one who can't put together information?

You don't know what "specific" means, do you?

 

[kage69]

That cop was an immense asshole. Wow.

 

[KK]

it would be a happy day if someone put a bullet in that cops head.

 

[MartyMcFly3]

Remember folks, it's just one or two bad apples.

Thank you.

 

[Lash444]

You don't know what "specific" means, do you?

State law says its illegal unless given specific approval.
MTA's rule seems to give specific approval.

Let me guess, they need to provide a backstage pass, and 2 forms of identification to prove they are specifically specified?

 

[rudeguy]

Welcome to the American justice system. If you don't bow down to cops, you will either be assaulted or arrested. Usually both.

People are going to start fighting back. Its only a matter of time before a cop pulls this shit on someone who is legally carrying a gun and decides to defend himself.

Oh wait..probably not. Since this stuff usually happens in liberal shit holes where freedom has been stripped and people aren't allowed to carry guns.

 

[mizzou]

Sounds like the cop got confused with the legalize speak of the statute/ordinance or whatever the law came from.

Either way, he probably should have called his Sgt. to see what to do.