Knife Set

[dullard]

Originally posted by: silverpig
What Should I Get?
Minimum: Chef's knife, paring knife.
Good Set: Add a santoku knife, a carving knife, and a second paring knife of different size (sometimes called a utility knife)
If you have the cash: Add a cleaver, a meat fork, and a good pair of kitchen scissors

I'll agree with the Chef's knife and pairing knife - they are the two knives that I really ever use. But for the everyday cook, I'd move kitchen scissors in with the minimum list. A washable pair of scissors is so handy, especially with meats. For someone who doesn't know how to properly use a knife, nothing is faster for meat than scissors (think defatting or for working with frozen cuts). Yes, a real chef wouldn't freeze meat, but many normal people do.

I use a Wusthof chef knife that was probably $60 (I got it as a gift a couple years back). It is heavenly to use compared to other knives. But then, I've never tried a $600 knive.

 

[0roo0roo]

knives?
no!
deli slicer kramer style!

 

[Paladin3]

I have a friend who is a classically trained chef and restaurant manager. According to him the J. A. Henckels Knives are about the best knives you can get without spending an arm and a leg. I've got the Classic Forged 4" parer and the 8" chef's from their Value Brand line and love them both.

 

[scott916]

Good little writeup here

 

[xSauronx]

Originally posted by: Ns1

Originally posted by: zoiks
Can you tell me what the fuck 640 dollar knives will do that $200 knives won't do?

not fuck up your shit while you cut it? cut through shit like hot knife through butter?

that's a relatively "cheap" set too

i lucked out a few years ago and got a deal on amazon: $200 for a 6 piece forged sabatier set

wonderfully good knives. but you dont *need* to spend that kind of money on knives, necessarily. all i have (divorce, meh) from the sabatier set is a slicer, a 8" chef and a paring knife.

i think a good chef/cleaver is the most important if youre on a budget. if you cook regularly it will get a lot of use and a good one will hold up well. outside of that, i wouldnt spend a lot of money on any knife i dont expect to use very regularly.

now, if i had cash to spare i might, just because i like quality knives, but as far as practicality is concerned, its not necessary.

 

[xSauronx]

Originally posted by: randay
just learn how to sharpen a knife and buy some cheap knives.

if it gets a lot of use a cheap knife wont hold up well to the work, even with a good sharpener. i have a couple of cheapish knives that i know wont get a lot of use, so thats fine for me. id never have a cheap chef knife, itd drive me nuts trying to maintain it.

 

[Pacemaker]

Originally posted by: TroyEade

Originally posted by: sactoking
as well as a knife block that just collects bacteria.

Yes, i've always wondered about hygene with those wooden blocks

Do you put your knives away without cleaning them? I don't see how it's going to get bacteria in it without you putting it away dirty. It might get dusty in the slots over time I guess, but that isn't bacteria.

 

[compman25]

Originally posted by: acid45
Miracle blade III

No, Cutco!

 

[xSauronx]

Originally posted by: Pacemaker

Originally posted by: TroyEade

Originally posted by: sactoking
as well as a knife block that just collects bacteria.

Yes, i've always wondered about hygene with those wooden blocks

Do you put your knives away without cleaning them? I don't see how it's going to get bacteria in it without you putting it away dirty. It might get dusty in the slots over time I guess, but that isn't bacteria.

Our research was first intended to develop means of disinfecting wooden cutting surfaces at home, so that they would be almost as safe as plastics. Our safety concern was that bacteria such as Escherichia coli O157:H7 and Salmonella, which might contaminate a work surface when raw meat was being prepared, ought not remain on the surface to contaminate other foods that might be eaten without further cooking. We soon found that disease bacteria such as these were not recoverable from wooden surfaces in a short time after they were applied, unless very large numbers were used. New plastic surfaces allowed the bacteria to persist, but were easily cleaned and disinfected. However, wooden boards that had been used and had many knife cuts acted almost the same as new wood, whereas plastic surfaces that were knife-scarred were impossible to clean and disinfect manually, especially when food residues such as chicken fat were present. Scanning electron micrographs revealed highly significant damage to plastic surfaces from knife cuts.

source and this page is horrific.

thought some of you may find that interesting.

 

[Pacemaker]

Originally posted by: xSauronx

Originally posted by: Pacemaker

Originally posted by: TroyEade

Originally posted by: sactoking
as well as a knife block that just collects bacteria.

Yes, i've always wondered about hygene with those wooden blocks

Do you put your knives away without cleaning them? I don't see how it's going to get bacteria in it without you putting it away dirty. It might get dusty in the slots over time I guess, but that isn't bacteria.

Our research was first intended to develop means of disinfecting wooden cutting surfaces at home, so that they would be almost as safe as plastics. Our safety concern was that bacteria such as Escherichia coli O157:H7 and Salmonella, which might contaminate a work surface when raw meat was being prepared, ought not remain on the surface to contaminate other foods that might be eaten without further cooking. We soon found that disease bacteria such as these were not recoverable from wooden surfaces in a short time after they were applied, unless very large numbers were used. New plastic surfaces allowed the bacteria to persist, but were easily cleaned and disinfected. However, wooden boards that had been used and had many knife cuts acted almost the same as new wood, whereas plastic surfaces that were knife-scarred were impossible to clean and disinfect manually, especially when food residues such as chicken fat were present. Scanning electron micrographs revealed highly significant damage to plastic surfaces from knife cuts.

source and this page is horrific.

thought some of you may find that interesting.

Oh I know that wood cutting boards are a no no, but I thought they were talking about the wood blocks that people store clean knives in.

 

[Gibsons]

Originally posted by: Pacemaker

Originally posted by: xSauronx

Originally posted by: Pacemaker

Originally posted by: TroyEade

Originally posted by: sactoking
as well as a knife block that just collects bacteria.

Yes, i've always wondered about hygene with those wooden blocks

Do you put your knives away without cleaning them? I don't see how it's going to get bacteria in it without you putting it away dirty. It might get dusty in the slots over time I guess, but that isn't bacteria.

Our research was first intended to develop means of disinfecting wooden cutting surfaces at home, so that they would be almost as safe as plastics. Our safety concern was that bacteria such as Escherichia coli O157:H7 and Salmonella, which might contaminate a work surface when raw meat was being prepared, ought not remain on the surface to contaminate other foods that might be eaten without further cooking. We soon found that disease bacteria such as these were not recoverable from wooden surfaces in a short time after they were applied, unless very large numbers were used. New plastic surfaces allowed the bacteria to persist, but were easily cleaned and disinfected. However, wooden boards that had been used and had many knife cuts acted almost the same as new wood, whereas plastic surfaces that were knife-scarred were impossible to clean and disinfect manually, especially when food residues such as chicken fat were present. Scanning electron micrographs revealed highly significant damage to plastic surfaces from knife cuts.

source and this page is horrific.

thought some of you may find that interesting.

Oh I know that wood cutting boards are a no no, but I thought they were talking about the wood blocks that people store clean knives in.

The article argues that wood cutting boards are superior.

 

[xSauronx]

Originally posted by: Pacemaker

Originally posted by: xSauronx

Originally posted by: Pacemaker

Originally posted by: TroyEade

Originally posted by: sactoking
as well as a knife block that just collects bacteria.

Yes, i've always wondered about hygene with those wooden blocks

Do you put your knives away without cleaning them? I don't see how it's going to get bacteria in it without you putting it away dirty. It might get dusty in the slots over time I guess, but that isn't bacteria.

Our research was first intended to develop means of disinfecting wooden cutting surfaces at home, so that they would be almost as safe as plastics. Our safety concern was that bacteria such as Escherichia coli O157:H7 and Salmonella, which might contaminate a work surface when raw meat was being prepared, ought not remain on the surface to contaminate other foods that might be eaten without further cooking. We soon found that disease bacteria such as these were not recoverable from wooden surfaces in a short time after they were applied, unless very large numbers were used. New plastic surfaces allowed the bacteria to persist, but were easily cleaned and disinfected. However, wooden boards that had been used and had many knife cuts acted almost the same as new wood, whereas plastic surfaces that were knife-scarred were impossible to clean and disinfect manually, especially when food residues such as chicken fat were present. Scanning electron micrographs revealed highly significant damage to plastic surfaces from knife cuts.

source and this page is horrific.

thought some of you may find that interesting.

Oh I know that wood cutting boards are a no no, but I thought they were talking about the wood blocks that people store clean knives in.

that link says wooden cutting boards are generally ok. i even bolded a part where it said bacteria isnt a problem.

 

[Pacemaker]

Originally posted by: xSauronx

Originally posted by: Pacemaker

Originally posted by: xSauronx

Originally posted by: Pacemaker

Originally posted by: TroyEade

Originally posted by: sactoking
as well as a knife block that just collects bacteria.

Yes, i've always wondered about hygene with those wooden blocks

Do you put your knives away without cleaning them? I don't see how it's going to get bacteria in it without you putting it away dirty. It might get dusty in the slots over time I guess, but that isn't bacteria.

Our research was first intended to develop means of disinfecting wooden cutting surfaces at home, so that they would be almost as safe as plastics. Our safety concern was that bacteria such as Escherichia coli O157:H7 and Salmonella, which might contaminate a work surface when raw meat was being prepared, ought not remain on the surface to contaminate other foods that might be eaten without further cooking. We soon found that disease bacteria such as these were not recoverable from wooden surfaces in a short time after they were applied, unless very large numbers were used. New plastic surfaces allowed the bacteria to persist, but were easily cleaned and disinfected. However, wooden boards that had been used and had many knife cuts acted almost the same as new wood, whereas plastic surfaces that were knife-scarred were impossible to clean and disinfect manually, especially when food residues such as chicken fat were present. Scanning electron micrographs revealed highly significant damage to plastic surfaces from knife cuts.

source and this page is horrific.

thought some of you may find that interesting.

Oh I know that wood cutting boards are a no no, but I thought they were talking about the wood blocks that people store clean knives in.

that link says wooden cutting boards are generally ok. i even bolded a part where it said bacteria isnt a problem.

Must be having reading problems so close to a long weekend. Anyway, I normally use plastic for that because I can wash it in the dishwasher which uses much hotter water than I can personally wash dishes with which can help kill the bacteria. However, it is interesting that in a study wood was better when manually cleaned.

 

[Cristatus]

I can't believe nobody's mentioned this yet, but what about a ceramic knife? Just one? I think it was Kyocera that makes a good brand, but I'm not sure where to find them. I do remember seeing it on some documentary though.

(C)

 

[sactoking]

Originally posted by: Cristatus
I can't believe nobody's mentioned this yet, but what about a ceramic knife? Just one? I think it was Kyocera that makes a good brand, but I'm not sure where to find them. I do remember seeing it on some documentary though.

(C)

Ceramic is exceedingly sharp, pretty expensive, and more difficult to sharpen.

Some professional chefs say that ceramics are 'too sharp for home use'.

 

[zinfamous]

The Kramer series from Shun. Kramer is one of only 120 certified with the title Master Bladesmith in the US, and the only one that is a chef.

Shun is a very popular set, and they are great. I have a few of the "low-end" series and these are the sharpest I have ever used.

Thing to consider is these are not for bones and tough meats. Japanese knives are designed to reflect the Japanese diet, mostly fish and hard vegetables. They are graded differently as well, so standard honing bars and sharpeners will destroy the angles.

here's the Kramer set (exlusive to Sur la Table) http://www.surlatable.com/category/id/103112.do

standard sets: http://www.metrokitchen.com/sh...q_nvk5cCFQ89awod2C1DGA

 

[zinfamous]

Originally posted by: TroyEade

Originally posted by: sactoking
as well as a knife block that just collects bacteria.

Yes, i've always wondered about hygene with those wooden blocks

you need bamboo blocks. Bamboo repels water. Shun steel is not stain-resistant, so you need to store them in a non-absorptive environment. Bamboo is great for this, also prevents bacteria issues.

Of course, if you're spending that money on these knives, you damn well better clean and dry them by hand after each use.

 

[zinfamous]

Originally posted by: zoiks

Originally posted by: Ns1

Originally posted by: zoiks
Can you tell me what the fuck 640 dollar knives will do that $200 knives won't do?

not fuck up your shit while you cut it? cut through shit like hot knife through butter?

Really, you fuck up your shit when cutting it with $200 knives? Other knives don't work?
Are we talking about liberian currency here?

it's all about the quality of the steel and the diversity of use for each individual knife.

 

[zinfamous]

Originally posted by: silverpig
You can do a little readng on knives and there are various opnions on what is best, but I'll just summarize here:

Stainless vs. High Carbon Steel
Stainless is well, stainless. It's softer, it's easier to sharpen, and it's easier to maintain. High carbon steel will discolour and develop a patina, and will rust if you like leaving it in salt water. High carbon is harder, more difficult to sharpen, but it will hold its edge longer and you can get it sharper than a stainless blade.

My recommendation is to get a Japanese made stainless blade. It has all the benefits of stainless steel, but the Japanese generally temper their steels harder than others (American/German) so you get the benefits of high carbon as well.

Sets vs Non-Sets
Small sets are good. Large sets generally include a bunch of stuff you don't want.

Storage and Maintenance
Please sharpen and store your blades carefully. A magnetic strip you hang on your wall is a good idea. You should also get a hone (also called a steel) for honing your blade after you use it. Unless it is called a sharpening steel, these do not actually sharpen your blade, but rather re-align the edge, slowing the dulling process. If you want to sharpen your blades as well, a nice combination waterstone is a good investment.

What Should I Get?
Minimum: Chef's knife, paring knife.
Good Set: Add a santoku knife, a carving knife, and a second paring knife of different size (sometimes called a utility knife)
If you have the cash: Add a cleaver, a meat fork, and a good pair of kitchen scissors

$189 starter set: http://www.cutleryandmore.com/details.asp?SKU=10879
$249 gets you a little further: http://www.cutleryandmore.com/details.asp?SKU=5900
$699 would be good if they dropped the bread knife, tomato knife and maybe the scissors: http://www.cutleryandmore.com/details.asp?SKU=14176


edit: I have the Shun 8" chef's knife from these sets as my main workhorse. It's great. I just sharpened it and it practically fell through a russet potato.

great info.

though, i would suggest against the magnetic bar. if you're careful, it should be fine. but you want to avoid metal with your knives as best you can. I'd stick to the bamboo block.

My main knife is the 7" santoku. I can shave with it if I wanted to

 

[Jeff7]

I think my knife set was $10 on clearance at Kmart.


The knives seem to do the job they were meant for: cutting stuff.

 

[zinfamous]

Originally posted by: Pacemaker

Originally posted by: TroyEade

Originally posted by: sactoking
as well as a knife block that just collects bacteria.

Yes, i've always wondered about hygene with those wooden blocks

Do you put your knives away without cleaning them? I don't see how it's going to get bacteria in it without you putting it away dirty. It might get dusty in the slots over time I guess, but that isn't bacteria.

yes. bacteria is found in all dust.

 

[zinfamous]

Originally posted by: Pacemaker

Originally posted by: xSauronx

Originally posted by: Pacemaker

Originally posted by: xSauronx

Originally posted by: Pacemaker

Originally posted by: TroyEade

Originally posted by: sactoking
as well as a knife block that just collects bacteria.

Yes, i've always wondered about hygene with those wooden blocks

Do you put your knives away without cleaning them? I don't see how it's going to get bacteria in it without you putting it away dirty. It might get dusty in the slots over time I guess, but that isn't bacteria.

Our research was first intended to develop means of disinfecting wooden cutting surfaces at home, so that they would be almost as safe as plastics. Our safety concern was that bacteria such as Escherichia coli O157:H7 and Salmonella, which might contaminate a work surface when raw meat was being prepared, ought not remain on the surface to contaminate other foods that might be eaten without further cooking. We soon found that disease bacteria such as these were not recoverable from wooden surfaces in a short time after they were applied, unless very large numbers were used. New plastic surfaces allowed the bacteria to persist, but were easily cleaned and disinfected. However, wooden boards that had been used and had many knife cuts acted almost the same as new wood, whereas plastic surfaces that were knife-scarred were impossible to clean and disinfect manually, especially when food residues such as chicken fat were present. Scanning electron micrographs revealed highly significant damage to plastic surfaces from knife cuts.

source and this page is horrific.

thought some of you may find that interesting.

Oh I know that wood cutting boards are a no no, but I thought they were talking about the wood blocks that people store clean knives in.

that link says wooden cutting boards are generally ok. i even bolded a part where it said bacteria isnt a problem.

Must be having reading problems so close to a long weekend. Anyway, I normally use plastic for that because I can wash it in the dishwasher which uses much hotter water than I can personally wash dishes with which can help kill the bacteria. However, it is interesting that in a study wood was better when manually cleaned.

plastic, metal, stone...you should never cut on any surface other than wood. You're killing those blades.

 

[Descartes]

I agree with a few others that you should reconsider a set. Like pans, you pay for a lot that you never really use. I use my chef's knife probably 60% of the time, and a paring knife or my Santoku the rest.

I use Wusthof Ikon. The knives are a joy to use, with a perfect balance, weight and feel for my hands. Sure they're a little expensive, but again, most people really don't need the cost of an entire set. I have just a small number of knives, and that covers all my needs.

Shun are very nice, but I just don't like the feel of the handles. A lot of people like Global, but I just can't get over the feel of them; too light, too small for my hands.

If you do get a few quality knives, just be sure you maintain them properly and they should last you a lifetime.

 

[silverpig]

Originally posted by: zinfamous

great info.

though, i would suggest against the magnetic bar. if you're careful, it should be fine. but you want to avoid metal with your knives as best you can. I'd stick to the bamboo block.

My main knife is the 7" santoku. I can shave with it if I wanted to

I'm careful and it's fine, but yeah I'd like a bamboo block instead eventually.

I'll save the shaving to my straight razor

<--- likes sharp stuff

 

[Ns1]

Originally posted by: zoiks

Originally posted by: Ns1

Originally posted by: zoiks

Originally posted by: Ns1

Originally posted by: zoiks
Can you tell me what the fuck 640 dollar knives will do that $200 knives won't do?

not fuck up your shit while you cut it? cut through shit like hot knife through butter?

Really, you fuck up your shit when cutting it with $200 knives? Other knives don't work?
Are we talking about liberian currency here?

This is a pretty retarded argument. This is like saying what can a $1000 computer do that a $300 computer can't.


They both work, 1 just does a better job

It's not a retarded argument. $200 is also a lot of money for knives and you do get good stuff for that price. I'd wager that I could cut stuff just as easily as those 640 knives with a much cheaper one.
And the computer analogy is retarded.

And I'm gonna say you can't.

I got a few $20-30 knives and a more baller one, and the difference is night and day.


The plan is to buy a block and get a knife every year. Shun for common use knifes Forschner for lesser used ones.