kit guru 8970/50 in JUNE ???

[The Alias]

http://www.kitguru.net/components/g...adeon-hd-8970-and-8950-launch-plans-revealed/

major effin sadface if it's true

 

[lehtv]

Humm. Sounds odd. I wonder when NVIDIA's consumer-GK110 is due?

I don't mind personally, I just ordered a 7950 Vapor-X that should arrive tomorrow which will last me a good while.

 

[blackened23]

http://www.kitguru.net/components/g...adeon-hd-8970-and-8950-launch-plans-revealed/

major effin sadface if it's true

Also says that its ahead of schedule and they can launch earlier if they have pressure from nvidia? What's up with that? I figure they would want to launch ASAP but apparently not.

 

[tviceman]

Yeah that sounds really odd to be ahead of schedule but opting not to release when it's ready.

 

[lehtv]

Yeah that sounds really odd to be ahead of schedule but opting not to release when it's ready.

That's just business, happens all the time in all sectors of business. Timing.

 

[bunnyfubbles]

well, the sparse news/rumors of GK110 suggested a March time frame for consumer GPU (with chips already shipping for the HPC sector), so this talk of June for the 8900s doesn't bode well for anyone currently less than satisfied with current single GPU performance

 

[RussianSensation]

A lot of other sources are zoning in on the specs and even though they are off by a bit from each other, they keep repeating that HD8950 will have 32 ROPs but 48 ROPs will be left for the flagship 8970 series:
http://tomshw.it/cont/news/amd-radeon-hd-8950-e-8970-con-gpu-venus-al-massimo/39886/1.html

If true, there will be a very serious gap in performance since Tahiti appears to be very pixel fill-rate limited.

Not sure why AMD would want to wait with the launch, unless they are waiting for 28nm node to mature even more and try to launch this card at a lower voltage to still try and stay at 250W TDP. Videocardz says they have sources which confirmed that AMD Radeon HD 8970 will be launched with 2560 Stream Processors, that AMD is currently working on board layouts, first engineering samples will be available in November/December. Current release date is February 2013.

So we have 2 time frames: February 2013 or June 2013.

 

[OVerLoRDI]

That's just business, happens all the time in all sectors of business. Timing.

It makes sense, but I still love some new tech to read about and possibly buy.

 

[RussianSensation]

well, the sparse news/rumors of GK110 suggested a March time frame for consumer GPU (with chips already shipping for the HPC sector), so this talk of June for the 8900s doesn't bode well for anyone currently less than satisfied with current single GPU performance

If HD8000 series pushed well into Q2 2013 and NV in no rush to push out GK110, that could mean next generation 20 nm (or was it 22?) Volcanic Islands and Maxwell might be pushed well into Q4 2014.

Not sure I believe HD8000 series being pushed all the way to June 2013. The current prices of 7950/7970 parts have come down a lot, which means AMD has room to launch faster cards at high prices again and if NV responds, lower the prices later if they need to. Interesting how NV implied they could launch GK110 in 2013 if they feel pressure from AMD. Now rumors are swirling AMD will purposely delay HD8970 because they feel little pressure from NV? What is this a game of chicken and an egg? One company has to launch first at one point or another.

 

[railven]

It makes sense, but I still love some new tech to read about and possibly buy.

Amen, this place is becoming a bore lately

 

[blastingcap]

Collusion

 

[lehtv]

It makes sense, but I still love some new tech to read about and possibly buy.

Yeah me too! But we'll get our tech advancements eventually, and other areas of hardware are not affected. At any rate, the universe doesn't care about my preferences...

 

[VulgarDisplay]

Smart move from AMD if you ask me, but it does suck for the gamers. Other articles showing that AMD plans for their midrange to target the gtx680 for performance level means that there will be something for people to be excited about. Namely $500 midrange parts for 5 months before prices fix themselves and we get the true high end....

 

[Silverforce11]

As ive said in another thread, we're gonna be stuck on 28nm for a long time because only TSMC is even remotely close to performing OK, GF is still a failed promise.

There's no need for new products, the current lineup is fine, they are both selling small-ish mid-range GPU dies for high prices, and its selling apparently as fast as TSMC can make. Why launch a refresh when supply just cannot be massively increased due to mobile sectors dominating 28nm wafers?

 

[jacktesterson]

There is no need to rush them out as the current lineup is more than suitable for most and Nvidia is already talking delays. Simple really.

 

[RussianSensation]

There's no need for new products, the current lineup is fine, they are both selling small-ish mid-range GPU dies for high prices, and its selling apparently as fast as TSMC can make. Why launch a refresh when supply just cannot be massively increased due to mobile sectors dominating 28nm wafers?

HD7950 is going for $280-350, HD7970 for $360-450. HD8950 for $450 and HD8970 for $550 would be more profitable I imagine, no? Also, if HD8850/8870 2GB ~ 7950/7970 or faster, AMD could position those at $299/349 and make more $ on them than selling 7950 for $280 on a 365mm^2 die with 3GB VRAM. I think there are higher margins and lower costs that can be realized with the new line. TSMC being constrained doesn't stop AMD from replacing a costly 365mm^2 die that sells for $280-350 with a much smaller 270-280mm^2 die of 8800 series at the same price points. That's why I am conflicted why AMD would delay it to Q2 2013.

 

[sontin]

There is no need to rush them out as the current lineup is more than suitable for most and Nvidia is already talking delays. Simple really.

Huh?
nVidia is shipping GK110 to customers. They are ready. If AMD has luck nVidia will not release BigK at CES.

 

[Smoblikat]

Also says that its ahead of schedule and they can launch earlier if they have pressure from nvidia? What's up with that? I figure they would want to launch ASAP but apparently not.

Thats what happened this gen and they got wrecked on pricing.

 

[blackened23]

Thats what happened this gen and they got wrecked on pricing.

I agree that ATI should have stuck to their old pricing method, but consider that the 3GB GTX 580 at the time was going for 579.99 to 599.99.

As I said...I think they would have been better served with a 1.5gb card for 400$ instead of doing what they did. The price was high but was in line with current market prices, although they should have retained their sweet spot strategy. Anyway, I guess AMD is competetive this time with current gen products in terms of price / performance so they don't see a need for rushing--but I do hope they release earlier.

 

[tviceman]

There is no need to rush them out as the current lineup is more than suitable for most and Nvidia is already talking delays. Simple really.

Talking delays? Please tell us more of your secret sources. Provide links where appropriate.

 

[RussianSensation]

Huh?
nVidia is shipping GK110 to customers. They are ready. If AMD has luck nVidia will not release BigK at CES.

GK110 K20 is not due until December 2012. So not a single K20 has shipped to customers. Where are you getting this info?

 

[Rikard]

I suspect it has to do with (a) current generation can run anything thrown at them @ 1080p (b) they are waiting for the next gen consoles in order to build a demand for faster GPUs, plus they get a chance to optimize their products to those games.

 

[blackened23]

There is speculation that they shipped some to a major university which paid for a substantial pre-order. There is no proof however. Who knows - K20 isn't a consumer product, I would definitely be interested in a consumer GK110 product. I still think that any consumer next gen product would be Q1 '13 at the earliest.

 

[RussianSensation]

I agree that ATI should have stuck to their old pricing method, but consider that the 3GB GTX 580 at the time was going for 579.99 to 599.99.

I don't agree with that. AMD tried this strategy for 3 generations in a row and it didn't work:

1) Didn't result in high consumer switching from NV;
2) Didn't result in significantly higher market share (actually NV ended with 62-63% desktop discrete after HD4800/5800/6900 series were all counted);
3) AMD's GPU division barely made $ on an annual basis.

It's pretty clear that strategy was great for consumers but a failure overall for the company.

Actually in some quarters, AMD's GPU division lost $ using this strategy. ATi's pricing method made was Premium, never price/performance, and it resulted in them producing very fast high-end GPUs. The end result was that company was hugely profitable and ATi's brand name was considered premium because they wouldn't dare sell an X850Pro / X850XT for $269/ $369 on launch day. If AMD goes back to price/performance ($299 8950 and $369 for 8970) voluntarily without GK110 clobbering them, it's an admit of failure for the new strategy the firm exercised (First Mover Advantage). You can't market yourself as a premium brand and sell a $500 GPU as a $350 GPU. Of course as customers, we would have loved a $350 HD7970 at launch but AMD made the right move since selling $300-350 flagship cards is not sustainable with rising wafer prices as continuous node shrinks get more expensive. $500 GTX680 could not even beat the 7970 series this round. So why should AMD have priced 7970 at $369? People have a serious double standard with paying $400-500 for AMD cards that perform the same or faster than a GTX680 this generation it seems. Even when unlocked 6950s were going for $250 and you could get 2 of those for the price of a 580, it still didn't really matter. Why continue on the same failed strategy that hasn't worked for 3 generations in a row? This was exactly why AMD rushed HD7900 series with 925mhz clocks since they wanted those high margins.

When GTX280 launched at $649 and even later fell to $499, it was still $200 more expensive than 4870 but 20% faster. HD7970 was easily 20% faster than a 580 without overclocking and cost $110 more than $440 market rate for 580s then. The main reason AMD got away with this pricing strategy is because NV went MIA on GK110 and delivered 680 that was barely faster. You can only put 50% of the blame on AMD. The other 50% has to fall on NV for way under-delivering with the GTX680.

This is the fundamental difference: It's impossible to claim that only AMD is ripping us off now this generation when NV is doing the same (and frankly has been doing so for 6 years with $500-600 flagship cards). If you want to say AMD is ripping us off, then so is NV. $500 GTX680 294mm^2 is not exactly the price/performance part. Ironically, AMD gets all the heat for raising prices because "well NV kept the price at $500". This is the same story Intel is pulling on us. The price stays the same but the die keeps shrinking. Damn right NV raised prices big time. They went from selling us a 520mm^2 384-bit bus chip to a 294mm^2 256-bit bus chip. NV definitely raising prices but did so in a sneaky way that only people who follow tech closely would see. Also, GTX660Ti is a real GTX460 replacement and price went up from $229 to $299.

Most ironic NV only had superior price/performance for 1 quarter (March to June), while 7970 went totally uncontested from January to March and then after June price cuts and Cats 12.7, again 7970/7970GE delivered better value and performance than 670/680s. NV continues to charge $580 for their premium 680, but a premium 7970 GE is $450. NV continues to overcharge by $75-100 on their 680 line overall and it's not getting any backlash. It looks like AMD has actually been delivering both the price/performance and performance since June. If anything, it's NV that continues to rip off consumers with $400-420 670 and $500-550 680s.

 

[tviceman]

I agree that ATI should have stuck to their old pricing method, but consider that the 3GB GTX 580 at the time was going for 579.99 to 599.99.

As I said...I think they would have been better served with a 1.5gb card for 400$ instead of doing what they did. The price was high but was in line with current market prices, although they should have retained their sweet spot strategy. Anyway, I guess AMD is competetive this time with current gen products in terms of price / performance so they don't see a need for rushing--but I do hope they release earlier.

I think AMD would have been best served by releasing the 7970GE in January at the $550 price point the regular hd7970 started at. The gtx680's release would not have had the 28nm saving grace stigma it got, and Nvidia would likely have priced it lower than the $500 MSRP it got. Instead, Nvidia got it's $500 halo price, was still able to undercut the competition, was still able to outperform what AMD had at the time, and has still enjoyed, since then, the positive momentum from all of those combinations.

AMD's constant mismanagement of it's own products is amazing.