Kingdoms of Amalur developer lays off entire staff

[Craig234]

it's curt schilling that made this political - first with right-wing public tirades and then by (astonishingly, hypocritically) demanding tax breaks with an ultimatum. mass was very much correct to tell him to get fucked, since in the unlikely event of him actually shipping a product it would totally flop. he then moved to his desired "business-friendly" atmosphere, struggled to acquire something he could shit out with his name on it, and left r.i. taxpayers $112,000,000 in the hole.

if he were a democrat, i'm certain you and your friends would be jumping up and down right now.

Article on the topic:

http://www.opposingviews.com/i/spor...needs-bailout-his-failing-38-studios-company#

Republican Schilling - who has expressed interest in running for office - loudly opposed bailouts and got a sweetheart deal at taxpayer expense from a Republican governor.

Schilling promised 450 jobs, never filled 300, and the ones he did are now all gone - very expensive jobs even if he had hired 450.

He's been repaid any money he had in the venture - and is asking for more tax funds.

Yes, it's a pattern. For one example, when George Bush was involved in buying the Texas Rangers, they got all kinds of taxpayer money to do it that was a bad deal for the public.

But when Bush sold his share, he was paid six times its value... goodwill and all.

 

[lupi]

As had been said, your initial receipt estimates were way off. Woulld be intteresting to know what the actual budget/studio cost for the time were though.

Reading more of the thread, seems much lulz at the studio operators to be had. Doesn't surpriise me though as schilling has already stolen money from me, so why not do the same to a state.

 

[Craig234]

This does say something about it being hard to make an expensive game, and how publishers are incented not to take a chance on new designs - not that this one did that.

 

[The Boston Dangler]

This does say something about it being hard to make an expensive game, and how publishers are incented not to take a chance on new designs - not that this one did that.

i'll take a good game at any price, rather than something at $60 for the sake of making a $60 sale.

 

[The Boston Dangler]

the news has just said turbine in needham, mass has interviewed some 38 employees earlier this week.

 

[lupi]

Reading a bit more of the article, and it also talks about their mmo being developed. Going to take a leap here and say that thhe "had to sell" total involved finances for the studio as a whole and not just for this one title.

 

[Ashenor]

I feel bad i liked KoA a lot and the direction it looked like they would take the MMO since Curt was a long time MMO and EQ player back in the day. Regardless of what happened i feel bad for the employees and losing a new game company that looked like it had some promise.

That said wonder if there will be deal on KoA PC anytime soon, i might buy it to to go with my 360 version.

 

[Red Storm]

Sucks for the devs, seems like video game development is a really risky business to be in.

As for the game itself, I actually didn't really like it at all, felt too much like a single player MMO.

 

[Aikouka]

I would have bought it if the casting system wasn't so awkward. Hit a number key to "equip" a spell and then right click to cast it? No... just no. That reeks of a console-based design where it's impossible to present the equivalent of 5-10 dedicated cast buttons (keys 1 through 5 to 0 depending on what you prefer).

 

[Gheris]

I just read the article in Forbes. Shocking that a governor that was "dazzled" by Schilling at a republican fund raiser was willing to fork over that much. Not surprising that when it failed miserably that the RI tax payers are stuck with 112.6 million in payments. In the end I don't think the governors should have the power to do these things it's a joke.

From a political perspective? I am Independent but when I read stuff like this it just makes me shake my head. Admittedly I am not surprised it was a Republican governor that did this. Because in the end you know who pays off the majority of taxes per capita in the US. The middle class. "So hey, who cares if it tanks man! The middle class will pay it off!"

 

[crownjules]

the news has just said turbine in needham, mass has interviewed some 38 employees earlier this week.

Maybe the Grim Dawn guys will pick up a few of them. They're also based here in Mass.

But yeah, this whole story shows the current atmosphere of government being in bed with business. The sports talk radio guys were ripping into Schilling yesterday when this news came out.

 

[Wreckem]

This does say something about it being hard to make an expensive game, and how publishers are incented not to take a chance on new designs - not that this one did that.

The problem with this was inept people who didnt know what they were doing.

Give that kind of money to a real developer and there probably would have been a couple successful games out of it.

 

[crownjules]

He's been repaid any money he had in the venture - and is asking for more tax funds.

Reading this part - RI needs to sue his ass. You took a business risk and lost due to your decisions and (mis)management. That doesn't mean the taxpayers of RI should pay you for your personal stake in it. Allowing business of any kind to get away with this shit is just as bad as allowing people to abuse welfare in principle and most likely worse when you look at the raw monetary losses.

 

[Zenoth]

Crap, I wanted my camera zoom-out options update.

Alright, on a more serious note it sucks bad. Only a handful of "big" companies can sustain themselves now, and most of them produce crappy games. I think that the gaming industry might be in a need of another crash, then again it wouldn't change things much on the long run. Eventually we'd see history repeating itself. It's sad, it's a job of passion more than anything else, you really have to enjoy what you're doing when despite your meager salary and the sleepless nights at work you keep at it, until your employer points at the exit.

Then as a video game developer (coder, animator, artist, etc) you do what? You're still looking for a job in the same field? Really? You risk that? That's harsh, I hope most of them in such situations do manage to find a job in their field again, lest they go back to school to study something else, or end up working at a fast-food restaurant for months until they find "something good enough". I remember back during the 16-Bit days I wanted to "make games when I grow older", sad to say but good thing I didn't end up in there.

I'm curious though... I know lays offs and being fired for 'x' reasons in the video gaming industry is of course absolutely nothing new or recent. It happened before. I do wonder though, how often did such situations (comparable to what's happening to the KoA team right now) happened during... say... the 8-Bit or 16-Bit (or even 32-Bit) days? And I'm not talking about developers or publisher mergers here, I'm talking about a development team being fired or being told that "lay offs are necessary" without necessarily being able to find a job in their field again after. I can't recall if it used to happen often back then, or if it really does happen "more" frequently since the past couple of years.

How can you compete against the likes of Elder Scrolls when you make a game like KoA? How can you compete against the likes of Diablo 3 (even Diablo 2) when you make a game like Torchlight? How can you compete against Call of Duty when you make ANY other type of FPS game? How can you compete against Mass Effect when... wait never mind about that one. How can you compete against Angry Birds when you make a game like Trine? (no really).

I wonder if developers in the past really had to ask themselves "how do we compete against Mario Brothers 3?! can we really hope to do something that's gonna sell as much?!".

 

[Via]

This thing is still $60 on steam, and I don't recall it ever being discounted. I also imagine that many of the copies sold were actually bought on steam, so that leaves out the boxes, manuals, shipping costs etc. Plus - there's $25 woth of DLC, which I'm sure many people bought. This game had to make quite a bit more than $27 million.

 

[Wreckem]

This thing is still $60 on steam, and I don't recall it ever being discounted. I also imagine that many of the copies sold were actually bought on steam, so that leaves out the boxes, manuals, shipping costs etc. Plus - there's $25 woth of DLC, which I'm sure many people bought. This game had to make quite a bit more than $27 million.

The overwhelming majority of KoA units sold were Xbox and PS3, not PC.

 

[Wreckem]

Apparently the number of laid off has been revised from 379 to 413.

All I can say is wow... He created jobs, thats all he did...

 

[ibex333]

Kingdoms of Amaleur sucked.. no wonder they have to lay off the staff.

I played the demo for like an hour and I uninstalled it in disgust. Sure, it may have plenty of items, and nice fighting, but all that is overshadowed by a heavy case of consolitis, plus a lame, crappy story and weird graphics which have a very "artificial" feel.

 

[railven]

How can you compete against the likes of Elder Scrolls when you make a game like KoA? How can you compete against the likes of Diablo 3 (even Diablo 2) when you make a game like Torchlight? How can you compete against Call of Duty when you make ANY other type of FPS game? How can you compete against Mass Effect when... wait never mind about that one. How can you compete against Angry Birds when you make a game like Trine? (no really).

Just go back to those times and you'll see a lack of:
Celebrity voice actors
DLC
Publisher pressure (well not like now at least.)

Studios back then opened and closed the same as now, the major difference is we mostly didn't hear about it unless we kept up with gaming, nowadays with the internets this information is spread across game blogs the second it happens.

The industry is in dire need of a reset and hopefully it flushes out the suits who made gaming a commodity. But at the same, we have to blame ourselves (we as gamers let publishers/devs introduce these DLC systems - come on map paks? Really?), and the Nintendo Wii's break through success to the casual gamers which made games like Guitar Hero (and the million clones) a passing fad.

The suits are basically sucking up million dollar pay outs for "a job well done" when the devs underneath them are firing and rehiring (sometimes the same people) to make deadlines.

It truly is an awful industry at the moment.

 

[thespyder]

for me, I liked KoA:R. I have to say that it wasn't as good a game as Skyrim, but it was significantly better than a lot of crap that has come out in the last few years. And crap put out by so called 'Big name' companies that will never feel this kind of bite.

And the true shame of it is that the marketing and business analysts are going to see this as a failure in an endeavor to go outside the established mold. And yet another reason why not to do that.

 

[Craig234]

i'll take a good game at any price, rather than something at $60 for the sake of making a $60 sale.

I've felt there should be a market for $100/$200/etc. games that deserve the price, but it seems there isn't - even though players spend much more with MMO and F2P models.

 

[Craig234]

That said wonder if there will be deal on KoA PC anytime soon...

$35.99 Amazon download.

Might have more sales soon?

http://www.amazon.com/Kingdoms-Amal...8DA8/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1337966881&sr=8-2

 

[Aikouka]

I do wonder though, how often did such situations (comparable to what's happening to the KoA team right now) happened during... say... the 8-Bit or 16-Bit (or even 32-Bit) days?

You didn't just have failed developers back in those days, but there were quite a few failed consoles. Consider today where it's rare to see a new console enter the fold, and even more rare for one to "bow out."

How can you compete against the likes of Elder Scrolls when you make a game like KoA? How can you compete against the likes of Diablo 3 (even Diablo 2) when you make a game like Torchlight? How can you compete against Call of Duty when you make ANY other type of FPS game? How can you compete against Mass Effect when... wait never mind about that one. How can you compete against Angry Birds when you make a game like Trine? (no really).

You compete by making a compelling game that people will want to play. Torchlight is still fun because it's the exact same formula, but still different enough, and it's 1/3 the price. It also helps that the game is good.

I think the price point that I mentioned is important. I guarantee that Diablo III's production costs were significantly higher than Torchlight II. That obviously shows in how the game looks. In other words, Torchlight II doesn't try too hard, and instead tries to shoot for value. Kingdoms of Amalur tried too hard to be the next best RPG.

As for the other examples, essentially... just provide better value, a vastly different style of gameplay, or a good, cohesive project. Trine is really nothing like Angry Birds, and is fairly popular given its rather nice graphic approach, and three hero system.

 

[Gibsons]

$9 each game for marketing. Are you shitting me?

That's part of the problem right there.

Instead of paying $9/game for ads in gaming magazines, tv, banner ads, signs in Best Buy, etc. they should just produce demos of the game and distribute them on the various major delivery platforms like Steam, Origin, etc (as well as the company's site).

If the game is worth a shit, word of mouth and reviews will take care of the rest.

All IMHO, of course.

I follow actively follow gaming, though not closely. I'd vaguely heard of KoA, but really knew nothing about it. It seems to me that they didn't get a lot out of that $9.

 

[thespyder]

I've felt there should be a market for $100/$200/etc. games that deserve the price, but it seems there isn't - even though players spend much more with MMO and F2P models.

It is all a matter of perception. If people stopped and figured out that they were paying that much on their MMO, they would probably balk at it. But since it is a small initial cost and then a recurring (in the case of MMO) or transactional based cost ongoing, people can put it out of their mind how much they are actually spending.

Way back in the day I used to play the original Neverwinter nights on AOL. You payed as you played. After one month, I figured out how much it was costing me and i quit. it was more than $100. But people deny to themselves that they pay 'That much' and just keep on shelling out. It is why the F2P and MMOs can exist and are so popular with Publishers.

Kingdoms of Amalur tried too hard to be the next best RPG.

I don't know that it necessarily tried to be 'The next best RPG'. i think they knew they were going up against Skyrim and had BIG shoes to fill in order to compete for the consumer dollar.

Where I think it failed was in that it was clearly an attempt to create a baseline MMO model and hoped to make enough money to set up the infrastructure for game two which would probably have been that MMO.

In short, it was a miss-matched market. They played heavily on the single player RPG formula, but were building for the MMO crowd. And so it failed to fully reach either market. And then it got compared to TES and was found wanting.