News Kim Potter verdict agree or disagree?

[highland145]

Yea, when the cops of the Capitol stopped the insurrection. Those bastards. [/sarcasm]

OT....I'm pretty far right leaning and the Cap Police should have shot many of those assholes. And Ashli Babbitt....come through my window with a mob at your back, you won't get milk and cookies.

/p&n

 

[brianmanahan]

In a better world this wouldn't be a P&N thread, but in this world it surely should be?

in a perfect thread, men like me would not exist

but this is not a perfect thread

 

[himkhan]

Must suck being a cop now....crooks gunning for you and the prosecutor is also gunning for you.

It only took you a few posts into your own OP to make yourself the victim.

 

[himkhan]

OT....I'm pretty far right leaning and the Cap Police should have shot many of those assholes. And Ashli Babbitt....come through my window with a mob at your back, you won't get milk and cookies.

/p&n

I have mentioned this before but it bears repeating, the next time would be Seditionists try again they will need to be watching their 6 just as attentively as they are watching their 12. The Capitol police deserve protection just as much as some random sheriff down south just trying to carry out their duties.

 

[Viper GTS]

I'm pretty hard left these days. Derek Chauvin and Co can rot. My default reaction to police doing traffic enforcement is a middle finger (after I move over to give them space).

But I feel really bad for her. She didn't kneel on someone for an extended period of time. She didn't enter the wrong apartment. She didn't falsify evidence. Although I haven't followed her trial closely because of how incredibly depressing it was I don't think there was anything to suggest that she woke up that morning or any morning with any malice, much less intent to kill.

Obviously there must be consequences for this kind of incident, but fuck if I know what they should be. So many lives destroyed over a situation that never should have been a possibility.

I don't understand how we as a society continue to have a line of work that requires humans to make split second decisions with potentially lethal outcomes where making the right choice gets you nothing and making the wrong one could kill an innocent person and put you in jail. What sane person would take that job?

I think having officers carry less lethal and traditional firearms simultaneously is a recipe for disaster. I'm not remotely convinced that someone who carries both and is making decisions under stress is fully responsible for the mistakes that will be made, or that we as a society can correctly discern mistakes from criminal level malice or indifference.

The only solution I see is a massive deescalation of police armament, hopefully coupled with sweeping societal changes to gun culture. Getting to a position where our beat level police don't carry guns would make it far easier imo to sort out the results. Chauvin didn't shoot George Floyd, and that is a massive contributor to his just conviction. The extra time required for him to kill made his indifference and malice clear for the world to see.

In short, I guess, I think in time she will be viewed as a victim of the time in which she made her mistake. In a decade or two perhaps the rest of the country will agree that it's insane she was ever put in that position and this kind of shit won't be happening any more.

One can hope.

Viper GTS

 

[lxskllr]

That's where professionalism comes in. My hobby is climbing and cutting trees. Everything has a place on my saddle, and my gear is clearly differentiated. If I do the wrong thing at the wrong time, I'm gonna have a *really* bad day.

There should be no way someone of even below average intelligence, much less a trainer, can confuse a pistol with a taser. You do what it takes to not confuse them, and train. I'm not in the business, and just watching from the sidelines, but /I'd/ have the taser on one side of my body, and the pistol on the other. Even under stress, if you're grabbing from the wrong side of the body, alarm bells should be going off.

In any case, if any one of us did something similar, we'd have gotten a similar sentence. Being a cop doesn't give you more rights than anyone else, and the responsibilities are greater. That's why they get paid.

 

[Viper GTS]

Yet we have at least two incidents that I can think of where a police officer has been captured on video doing exactly this.

Are we to believe that it's a common thing for police officers to simply decide to execute someone on video?

Or should we take the far simpler answer as the more likely - That people make mistakes no matter their training, and the training they had was likely inadequate for what they were asked to do - and as a society determine that we need to stop creating situations where this is a possible outcome?

The 'they get paid' argument holds no validity on this forum btw.

Potter Kimberly A | GovSalaries

Information about Potter Kimberly A working Police Officer for City of Brooklyn Center.

govsalaries.com

You're surrounded by people who make multiples of her salary whose worst possible outcome for a mistake is they get fired. I could take two national cable channels off air with a mistake and I almost certainly wouldn't get fired.

Viper GTS

 

[lxskllr]

Maybe she, and everyone else should train on their own if work provided training is insufficient. You're getting paid to do a job right, and you do what you can to do it right. That's what I did. A screwup from me can cost into six figures, and shut down critical infrastructure. I make way less than she does.

 

[Viper GTS]

So if I understand you correctly:

Because getting to a society where we don't want or need our police to carry firearms is too expensive, and people like their guns too much, we should instead push the entirety of the risk and expense of risk mitigation onto our police force?

Viper GTS

 

[Lost_in_the_HTTP]

But I feel really bad for her. She didn't kneel on someone for an extended period of time. She didn't enter the wrong apartment. She didn't falsify evidence. Although I haven't followed her trial closely because of how incredibly depressing it was I don't think there was anything to suggest that she woke up that morning or any morning with any malice, much less intent to kill.

She was fine. Until the bang. But she had several seconds of that bright yellow thing in front of her eyes. She knew she was screwed immediately too.

That's where professionalism comes in. My hobby is climbing and cutting trees. Everything has a place on my saddle, and my gear is clearly differentiated. If I do the wrong thing at the wrong time, I'm gonna have a *really* bad day.

And if that tree you drop just happens to accidentally fall on somebody and kill them, you could be facing exactly the same charges.

 

[Torn Mind]

Some of the landmark protocols in the legal system usually involves pieces of shit because only they are the ones who put the system to the test. Ernesto Miranda did rape someone but even rapists have rights and those are rights everyone must have.

Cops "accidentally" tasering can quickly become an excuse for murdering unwanted civilians with no history at all or political opponents.

From a morality or utilitarian perspective, Daunte Wright being dead and Kim Potter being in jail is the best outcome. Wright is someone almost did kill someone and left him permanently disabed, and has flouted gun control laws. Him being the weasel that he was, managed to inflict harm on a criminal level but was intelligent enough to cover his tracks and avoid the system fron directly punishing him for those crimes.

Being the low income fellow he was, the suits against Wright's estate is for a pittance at 50,000 dollars.

 

[shortylickens]

I'm not gonna state my position. I will post this article which makes some points, if you guys care.

The dangerous trend behind Officer Kim Potter’s conviction

Under American law, honest mistakes are not crimes — even if they result in tragic deaths.

thehill.com

And yeah, this needs to go to P&N.

 

[IronWing]

I'm not gonna state my position. I will post this article which makes some points, if you guys care.

The dangerous trend behind Officer Kim Potter’s conviction

Under American law, honest mistakes are not crimes — even if they result in tragic deaths.

thehill.com

And yeah, this needs to go to P&N.

You're right it needs to be P&N. Also, Dershowitz is a dishonest hack.

 

[Charmonium]

I honestly don't know how realistic her "defense" was. I was an associate at a crim-law firm (2 former prosecutors - lawyers tend to be pretty $ahem$ "flexible.") long, long ago but this pretty much requires you get inside her head.

Being the lying sacks of shit so many of us are, that's a pretty pointless inquiry if you need to rely upon first-hand testimony. Therefore we don't "rely" but only consider. What rely upon are various behavioral indicia of 'mens rea' and from the smattering of facts I know about, it doesn't seem we have that here.

So for me, what it basically comes down to is the prima facia absurdity of a 20 year officer claiming she couldn't tell between her gun and taser. Even if she was truthful - don't care. It's a situation where I think you need to employ logic similar to the kind of 'strict liability' we impose on passenger carriers like trains.

 

[13Gigatons]

Police shot a 14 year old girl by accident. They did kill the suspect who was shooting at them but their bullets went through a wall and hit the 14 year old who was hiding.

I guess they will be going to prison as well? (Kinda doubt it)

Question is which accidental shooting lands you in prison and which doesn't ?

To risky being a cop these days....

 

[IronWing]

Police shot a 14 year old girl by accident. They did kill the suspect who was shooting at them but their bullets went through a wall and hit the 14 year old who was hiding.

I guess they will be going to prison as well? (Kinda doubt it)

Question is which accidental shooting lands you in prison and which doesn't ?

To risky being a cop these days....

What was accidental about Officer Potter drawing her gun, aiming at someone, and firing? Again, has a police officer ever done anything you consider wrong?

 

[13Gigatons]

So for me, what it basically comes down to is the prima facia absurdity of a 20 year officer claiming she couldn't tell between her gun and taser. Even if she was truthful - don't care. It's a situation where I think you need to employ logic similar to the kind of 'strict liability' we impose on passenger carriers like trains.

It the heat of the moment police have mixed up their Taser and Gun, she's not the first to make a mistake and certainty won't be the last.
She should be fired for Incompetence but not imprisoned.

Also DW was such a skinny weasel I don't know why the two male cops could not handle him.

 

[13Gigatons]

What was accidental about Officer Potter drawing her gun, aiming at someone, and firing? Again, has a police officer ever done anything you consider wrong?

She was wrong, it was an accident, she should be fired. Every cop will make a mistake on the job over years and years of service. If you make the job to hard nobody will do it anymore....cops will just sit in their cruiser and eat donuts.

 

[MrSquished]

It the heat of the moment police have mixed up their Taser and Gun, she's not the first to make a mistake and certainty won't be the last.
She should be fired for Incompetence but not imprisoned.

Also DW was such a skinny weasel I don't know why the two male cops could not handle him.

I'm sure if DW had different characteristics you'd be singing a different tune. If he was a middle class white dude being a bit douchey and got shot, we wouldn't be having this conversation.

It's pretty simple, fuck up at your job to the point people die, there need to be consequences. If there were no serious consequences then cops would feel empowered to do whatever they want. Police already have too little accountability and too little training. Policing is broken - it should not be a profession that is only attractive because the barrier of entry is so low and you can get away with almost anything. This is not rocket science. But keep being a good police state fascist.

To think that making it seem like they're serious consequences for accidentally shooting and killing somebody on the job is making a job too hard, I don't think your opinion really has any value for people with morals. I wouldn't want you running a nuclear power plan. For example, you don't seem to place any value on human lives killed by" mistakes".

Oh you have a job with life or death consequences (in a non medical field)? Listen. Don't worry about making a mistake, the worst that can happen is you lose your job. Where do you people come from?

 

[IronWing]

She was wrong, it was an accident, she should be fired. Every cop will make a mistake on the job over years and years of service. If you make the job to hard nobody will do it anymore....cops will just sit in their cruiser and eat donuts.

Sounds like we need to fire a lot of cops and replace them with folks who will do the job, including the part about respecting human rights and the Constitution.

 

[MrSquished]

Sounds like we need to fire a lot of cops and replace them with folks who will do the job, including the part about respecting human rights and the Constitution.

Imagine someone having so little values in the world that accidentally shooting someone being seriously consequential is making a job too hard.

 

[Torn Mind]

She was wrong, it was an accident, she should be fired. Every cop will make a mistake on the job over years and years of service. If you make the job to hard nobody will do it anymore....cops will just sit in their cruiser and eat donuts.

No one ever admits in court that they turned on their acting persona to make their conduct less punishable. It's not inconceivable to suspect that if Wright decided to bail or do something, she had a plan to take him out and make it look accidental by yelling Taser and then saying "I shot him".

Ironically, Daunte Wright also claimed he "accidentally" shot that Caleb Livingston dude. The hearsay account was that he wanted to "scare" Caleb but accidentally fired. That's what Wright wanted his circle to hear, and he simply was obfuscating his own intent to take out Caleb Livingston.

Furthermore, I doubt she will even serve the maximum of her sentence, as there are credits for good behavior and an appeal may even be eventually successful.

Police are on an intellectual level above common folk unlearned in law. So are attorneys and a good proportion of repeat criminals regardless of income status.

With a few minor behavioral adjustments, the likes of Daunte Wright could easily put on a uniform of a cop and be a typical corrupt cop or put on the suit of an attorney and be a typical piece of shit attorney.

 

[BurnItDwn]

If you discharge a gun and it kills somebody it could be murder, manslaughter, or self defence.

In this case, it was NOT self defense.


She even claimed that she meant to tase him, but used her gun instead of her taser. I believe this was therefore not premeditated murder, thus, manslaughter is the correct verdict.


It is a tragedy all around.

 

[Zorba]

In a better world this wouldn't be a P&N thread, but in this world it surely should be?

Mods must be off for the holidays. Who knew Future gave vacation days to volunteers.

 

[dank69]

Imagine someone having so little values in the world that accidentally shooting someone being seriously consequential is making a job too hard.

We all know the only reason op feels this way is because he believes the victim deserved it.