killswitch legalities

[Nothinman]

I'm just pointing out the fact that it's stupid that a big company can get away with this stuff because of some silly agreement or other political/legal stuff, but an individual can't. It just shows who's side the law is always on. Doesn't anyone else see this as being completely retarded? OP is not getting paid for work he's done yet it would be illegal for him to stop providing the service while if it was a mega corporation they can do what they want. Does not jive with me. Did not want to turn this political.

Safest bet is probably just getting a lawyer involved at this point as it sounds like it could be a touchy situation. At the very least you could try to see if you can legally stop providing further services to that company. Wonder if you could get a credit agency on their ass too. I think only big companies can do that though.

It's not silly, it's a legally binding agreement. If you don't like the licensing agreement which comes with Windows don't use it. The whole reason it exists is because of people like you. If he had a formal agreement with the other person he can pursue that within the court system, otherwise it's his fault for not formalizing their working relationship. This is one of the big reasons people don't mix personal and professional relationships.

This has nothing to do with size, it has everything to do with common sense.

 

[Netopia]

So let me ask a hypothetical.

Had the OP:

Created a EULA that had to be agreed to before installing that spelled everything out.

Included a "Phone Home" function that would allow him to, on a remote server, give software a "thumbs up" or "thumbs down" for valid use.

Would he then be within his legal rights to simply switch that install of his work to "thumbs down" and disable it?

I'm just asking that if there is a EULA in place that specifies the conditions for use (like legally paying for the software/services to develop it), does that make the disabling of software legal?

Joe

 

[EagleKeeper]

Federal law is that a person working as an employee must be paid for the hors worked.

Contact the local Federal Deptartment of Labor first off.

Bring proof of the situation of non-payment and then follow their advice

 

[Nothinman]

So let me ask a hypothetical.

Had the OP:

Created a EULA that had to be agreed to before installing that spelled everything out.

Included a "Phone Home" function that would allow him to, on a remote server, give software a "thumbs up" or "thumbs down" for valid use.

Would he then be within his legal rights to simply switch that install of his work to "thumbs down" and disable it?

I'm just asking that if there is a EULA in place that specifies the conditions for use (like legally paying for the software/services to develop it), does that make the disabling of software legal?

Joe

If it just disabled services, features, etc. I would think so but IANAL. But the OP said his backdoor deletes all of the data in the database which I can't believe would be legal under any circumstances. Since RedSquirrel brought up MS, look at how they handle it. If WGA fails on your desktop or Office it just gives annoying warnings and changes the title bar of Office to bright red letting you know it failed. The products' essential features still work AFAIK and obviously no user data gets touched.

But there's also the fact that the OP was working for the other person when he created the software. Depending on their agreement and the documentation around it, it could possibly be argued that the software is owned by the other party and I if that's the case I don't think any EULA would make disabling it legal.

 

[Mark R]

So let me ask a hypothetical.

Had the OP:

Created a EULA that had to be agreed to before installing that spelled everything out.

Included a "Phone Home" function that would allow him to, on a remote server, give software a "thumbs up" or "thumbs down" for valid use.

Would he then be within his legal rights to simply switch that install of his work to "thumbs down" and disable it?
Joe

The OP in this case was an employee; under most employment contracts, the employer owns all the code and all the rights to grant licenses.

However, in the hypothetical situation of the OP being a contractor selling a software product, it may be possible to disable the software.

I know of one case where it was done, the client was a large B2B retailer with a number of sales outlets and a number of warehouses in different parts of the country. They hired a small company as a contractor to produce an electronic stock/sales/communication system to replace having to do everything between warehouses by phone/fax.

The contractor had a lawyer draw a contract where the use of the software was subject to a monthly time-limited license which would be renewed by mutual arrangement between the buyer and the contractor. Once the final milestone had been signed-off and payment received the license would be transformed into a perpetual license.

The guy had worked for about 6 months, and had met the interim development milestones, where he had received some token interim payments. However, he had pretty much finished, and the software was fully functional and there was no further development planned, just bug fixes and minor tweaks. At final sign-off he would receive the final balloon payment for the software.

It was at this point that the customer tried to stiff the developer. They were now using the software in production, they'd abandoned all their old registers for PC terminals running the software, they'd received an e-commerce website as part of the package (and this was now responsible for a significant amount of new business), and all the warehouse tracking/auto ordering/dispatch stuff was in place, and the old paper/phone/fax system had been dismantled.

At the final sign-off meeting, they basically said, that they no longer wanted any development services and they were firing the developer. "OK", he said, "but I will require you to cease using the system by the end of the month."

The client continued to use the system, until the end of the month at which point the license expired; every component of the software had been programmed with a time-limited license key. When the key expired, all the registers, consignment tracking, warehouse stock monitoring, communications tools (including VoIP phones) and the e-commerce website shut down. One hour later, he had a motorcycle courier turn up with a stack of $100 bills (actually, it was probably a certified bankers check) representing the final balloon payment.

 

[Nothinman]

With the key phrase being "The contractor had a lawyer draw a contract" which doesn't seem to be the case here.

 

[Elixer]

Hi all. Here's a scenario and need some advice.
Worked as a salaried employed for a long time for a guy as a designer and server,sql admin, etc and he started to run into some money troubles - promises promises, blah blah.... So, long story short it's been over 18 months since he last paid me (owes me $40k in backpay) and 3 years since the issues arose. I haven't worked for him for the last 18 months. He hasn't since even mentioned he'd pay me for that. I've got a killswitch embeded on the server that will delete all the code and data in the sql databases.
Just wondering if any of you have any experience with this legally? Or thoughts about it.
I do have all the back ups, etc so once he paid I would be able to give it all to him.
I've been rolling this around for awhile so any thoughts would be appreciated

Well, since you continued to work unpaid, then you just need to contact a lawyer, and DON'T activate your 'kill switch', and hope the courts don't find out. This could be considered blackmail as well.
I am not sure why you even enabled a trojan in the first place, instead of quitting, after $3K, you should have walked.

 

[colonelciller]

The OP in this case was an employee; under most employment contracts, the employer owns all the code and all the rights to grant licenses.

However, in the hypothetical situation of the OP being a contractor selling a software product, it may be possible to disable the software.

I know of one case where it was done, the client was a large B2B retailer with a number of sales outlets and a number of warehouses in different parts of the country. They hired a small company as a contractor to produce an electronic stock/sales/communication system to replace having to do everything between warehouses by phone/fax.

The contractor had a lawyer draw a contract where the use of the software was subject to a monthly time-limited license which would be renewed by mutual arrangement between the buyer and the contractor. Once the final milestone had been signed-off and payment received the license would be transformed into a perpetual license.

The guy had worked for about 6 months, and had met the interim development milestones, where he had received some token interim payments. However, he had pretty much finished, and the software was fully functional and there was no further development planned, just bug fixes and minor tweaks. At final sign-off he would receive the final balloon payment for the software.

It was at this point that the customer tried to stiff the developer. They were now using the software in production, they'd abandoned all their old registers for PC terminals running the software, they'd received an e-commerce website as part of the package (and this was now responsible for a significant amount of new business), and all the warehouse tracking/auto ordering/dispatch stuff was in place, and the old paper/phone/fax system had been dismantled.

At the final sign-off meeting, they basically said, that they no longer wanted any development services and they were firing the developer. "OK", he said, "but I will require you to cease using the system by the end of the month."

The client continued to use the system, until the end of the month at which point the license expired; every component of the software had been programmed with a time-limited license key. When the key expired, all the registers, consignment tracking, warehouse stock monitoring, communications tools (including VoIP phones) and the e-commerce website shut down. One hour later, he had a motorcycle courier turn up with a stack of $100 bills (actually, it was probably a certified bankers check) representing the final balloon payment.

awesome story
ceo of othercompany should be publicly shamed

 

[Fallen Kell]

I'm just pointing out the fact that it's stupid that a big company can get away with this stuff because of some silly agreement or other political/legal stuff, but an individual can't. It just shows who's side the law is always on. Doesn't anyone else see this as being completely retarded? OP is not getting paid for work he's done yet it would be illegal for him to stop providing the service while if it was a mega corporation they can do what they want. Does not jive with me. Did not want to turn this political.

An individual can get away with it as long as they have the same legal documents, contracts, and clauses agreed upon when doing the work. If Jasonp and the person who he did the work for had signed a contract stating that the contracted work can and would be disabled/deleted in the event of failure of payment for services, Jasonp could kill the application. Microsoft has such a line in their EULA, which you agree to when you accept the EULA. Jasonp has not shown that he included such a line in his contract with the person he worked for (or for that matter, that there was any contract to begin with). This is a classic case of failing to cover your ass. Corporations have learned those lessons, and know that it is best to cover their asses. Unfortunately, most individuals have not learned those lessons (because they lack experience in the legal matters of covering said asses, unless they had a lot of business and law school courses).

 

[cytg111]

what happened to the good old days of going to see the person that owed money to you with a baseball bat?

Hahaha, this. Or sell the credit to your local biker-bar at 50%, 20K is better than 0K.

edit : "I am not sure why you even enabled a trojan in the first place, instead of quitting, after $3K, you should have walked. "
- QFT

 

[EagleKeeper]

OP
Did you contact the Dept of Labor as recommended?

I had a situation similar.
Company was using MicroStation.

I had a eval copy of AutoCad that they were using ("evaluating") for over a year.

When my eval period ended, I informed them that the evaluation period was over and they had to purchase or stop using. 2 months later, I left the company and uninstalled the software the night before my last day.

They only backed up drawing files not directories.

They blew a gasket, threatened a lawsuit for destruction of property and refused last payroll.

I had to go through the Dept of Labor, state DOT and the contracts office of the county to get paid 8 months later.