"Killing is [morally] fine" Discuss

[IEC]

Killing is distinct from murder. I believe there are many circumstances which justify or at least rationalize killing.

Hint: they generally don't involve premeditation or first strikes

 

[BePrepared]

I joined this forum just to add my input to this topic

Killing is NOT "morally" wrong. Killing, as an abstract action, bereft of context, lacks any moral content whatsoever.

The taking of a life, ANY LIFE, is only an issue of moral significance when view in the context of a literal action.

The killing of a plague carrying rat is a good thing.

The killing of a child on a playground playing with his toys is a bad thing.

The killing of a combatant in a war is both good AND bad depending on which side of the conflict you consult.

These things are all obvious to rational men.

Even our resident "Englishman" has acquiesced to the idea that killing another human being is not "morally wrong" in some circumstances.

He has said that it is justifiable to kill a man who is actively trying to kill you. If that is the case, then it is possible to make a sound logical case that killing a man to can be good in many OTHER circumstances which do not require the immediately visible threat of death from that man

Let us, for instance, consider that a man breaks into your home through the living room window in the middle of the night. This man awakens your entire family from their sleep and moves you all into a bedroom from which there is no exit. He tells you that he has no intention of causing you harm so long as you allow him to rape your wife and daughter, and then take all of your possessions and leave.

So far, according to my English friend here, killing this man is utterly unjustified.

Let us assume that i am also aware that in the last week, 3 other families have had their homes invaded in a similar manner, and have been herded into the same room where the women were raped before all members of the family were murdered.

At this point, i believe it it PURELY rational to assert that one can feel an extreme threat for one's own life and the lives of one's family.

At this point, our english friend would probably assert that i should try to overpower the man, and end the conflict without killing him. For this reason, let us assume that i have no weapons available to me other than the shotgun that i have hidden under the bed (of which he is unaware)

My choices are simple (if you'd be of a mind that a choice is really available)

1. I can attack the man bodily, hoping to overpower him, but at the risk that i might lose, and die, whereupon my family would be raped and killed

2. I can pull out my shotgun, and blow a large hole in the man who knowingly invaded my home, ending ANY threat and securing the safety of my family.

Now i ask, as i rational being, is it my duty to, in an effort to save the life of a man who has shown his disregard for mine, to put at risk the lives of my family and myself?

Obviously not.

So at what point do we see this killing as being a good thing?

Clearly, going out and finding a man sitting in his living room who is thinking of robbing my house and killing him is not good... this would be murder as there is no viable threat present

Obviously when he is walking through the street to my home, ambushing him in the parking lot next door would be murderous and wrong.

probably, shooting him from the window of my house when he opens my gate would be an overreaction

Do we really need to know that these other families were killed? No, because we could just be the FIRST of these families.

Do we need to confirm that this man carries a knife and intends to rape our family members? Obviously not. It can be safely assumed that a man entering my home through a broken window in the dead of night is not coming for any peaceful, friendly purpose.

The only information we need to ASSUME with relative certainty that there is a credible threat to our LIVES is that this man has broken into my home, while I am there. I cannot KNOW what he is armed with, or what his intentions are, and by the time i have ascertained this information, I may have already lost any window available to defend myself...

Should i shoot him in the leg to try to spare his life? Of course not. If he has a gun or knife, he might shoot ME or stumble into me and stab me even if somewhat disabled

In this circumstance, I will kill the man, without hesitation, the moment he crosses into my home.

I will do this, because it is only rational to do so. There is no rational man who can refute the fact that this man poses a CREDIBLE threat to my safety based on the available information at that moment

 

[MotF Bane]

/facepalm

 

[schneiderguy]

Damn you BePrepared D:

 

[BePrepared]

i did bad?

 

[Ichinisan]

12 MORE PAGES, PLZ!

Thanks.

i did bad?

Nah. People probably thought they were done with this thread. They were wrong

 

[Joseph F]

I voted "In self defence" but I thought that you were talking about people. *doh!

i did bad?

No, that was a fucking awesome first post and should be printed and framed. Welcome to AT Off Topic.

 

[Brigandier]

i did bad?

You just fed our Mogwai after midnight.

 

[BePrepared]

i would just like to see his response to my post... or that of anyone else... that took a while to write

 

[mcurphy]

You just fed our Mogwai after midnight.

lmao! nice :biggrin:

 

[schneiderguy]

i did bad?

HAL9000 makes too many threads and replying to his threads just encourages this behavior.

There was nothing wrong with your post, it was well written and correct (unlike the OP :hmm.

 

[JackBurton]

Ok, wait... are we talking about people that ride the left lane? If so, then yes, it is ok. As a matter of fact, Jesus says it's fine by him. He thinks they are assholes too.

 

[Raduque]

There's some people who just need killin, Neckbeard.

 

[Howard]

There's some people who just need killin, Neckbeard.

And if they didn't, Jesus already saved them, so there's no need to worry.

 

[grrl]

SNIP

Ban for necroing a nefbeard thread.

 

[HAL9000]

Wow, an old bump, any other day I would play along. But Today is my Birthday! So You'll have to play on your own.

 

[Jeeebus]

No, that was a fucking awesome first post and should be printed and framed. Welcome to AT Off Topic.

Somehow, I'm a tad skeptical that it was his "first" post. More likely yet another jackass on a temporary vacation using proxies for shits and giggles.

 

[PlasmaBomb]

BePrepared - WWYBYWB?

 

[BePrepared]

i have never been on this forum before, and had never even seen it before someone on texashuntingforum linked it to show the anti-gun insanity

 

[Linflas]

i have never been on this forum before, and had never even seen it before someone on texashuntingforum linked it to show the anti-gun insanity

Welcome, once you get done with the anti-gun insanity you can get in on the anti-SUV insanity, the anti-pit bull insanity, and maybe even the anti-girls with pointy elbows insanity while here. Then if you really want to make your head explode you can take an excursion to the P&N section for some true insanity.

 

[Scotteq]

i have never been on this forum before, and had never even seen it before someone on texashuntingforum linked it to show the anti-gun insanity

The insanity here is non-denominational and equal opportunity.



And (speaking of insanity) George Carlin said everything anyone needs to know about the "Sanctity Of Life": "We get to choose which forms of life we feel are sacred, and we get to kill the rest. Pretty neat deal, huh? You know how we got it? We made the whole fucking thing up!"


There's nothing inherently "Sacred" about life.

 

[mcurphy]

Wow, an old bump, any other day I would play along.

know how I know you're a troll?

 

[HAL9000]

know how I know you're a troll?

How?

 

[SlitheryDee]

My morals regarding killing: I don't want anyone killing me or attempting to kill me. I assume no one wants me to kill them or attempt to kill them. Therefore, It is mutually beneficial for everyone to refrain from killing each other.

 

[PimpJuice]

Hi People

I have been informed recently that the majority of people on this forum would argue that "Killing is fine" is that the case?! Here's a poll. let me know.

Neckarb

Edit: to clarify, when I say "Killing" I mean taking a life.


For some reason I was in a thread a minute ago, and quite a few people were saying killing is fine, a very finite statement with many repercussions I was told that most people agree with that statement.

For me the notion to kill anything is unacceptable except in self defence.

I apologise for the crudity of the question, particularly how non-specific it is, but the validity of that statement is what I am trying to assess. I have no other information to provide as that is the statement what was originally made

The statment originated in: http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2133856

Which was dealing with killing a Coyote however it soon derailed and ended up discussing the rather non-specific statement that "Killing is fine" all encompassing killing in general. This I took issue with and wanted a wider opinion than those in the thread.

Here I am.

I should also add this question is from a Moral perspective. "Morally/ ethically" fine.

I propose a movement to stop posting in necktards threads.....we will all benefit from it. Even better, lets all put him on ignore.