Killing by a drone - one story

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
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Moving article about one drone killing. 16 year old boy and his 12 year old cousin.

We sure wouldn't tolerate any country doing this to us in the US.

The author of the article claims it's murder. I think he has a point.

The killing somehow seems easy to many to excuse and rationalize, it's de-personalized from a distance, easy to view as a 'mistake'. I think that's a mistake.

The CIA's Unaccountable Drone War Claims Another Casualty
If Tariq Aziz, the 16-year-old soccer fan I met last week in Pakistan, was a dangerous Taliban terrorist, let the CIA prove it.

by Pratap Chatterjee


Last Friday, I met a boy, just before he was assassinated by the CIA. Tariq Aziz was 16, a quiet young man from North Waziristan, who, like most teenagers, enjoyed soccer. Seventy-two hours later, a Hellfire missile is believed to have killed him as he was traveling in a car to meet his aunt in Miran Shah, to take her home after her wedding. Killed with him was his 12-year-old cousin, Waheed Khan.

Over 2,300 people in Pakistan have been killed by such missiles carried by drone aircraft such as the Predator and the Reaper, and launched by remote control from Langley, Virginia. Tariq and Waheed brought the known total of children killed in this way to 175, according to statistics maintained by the organization I work for, the Bureau of Investigative Journalism.

The final order to kill is signed allegedly by Stephen Preston, the general counsel at the CIA headquarters. What evidence, I would like to know, does Mr Preston have against Tariq and Waheed? What right does he have to act as judge, jury and executioner of two teenage boys neither he nor his staff have ever met, let alone cross-examined, or given the opportunity to present witnesses?

It is not too late to call for a prosecution and trial of whoever pushed the button and the US government officials who gave the order: that is, Mr Preston and his boss, President Barack Obama.

There are many people whom I know who can appear as witnesses in this trial. We – a pair of reporters, together with several lawyers from Britain, Pakistan and the US – met the victim and dozens of other young men from North Waziristan for dinner at the Margalla hotel in Islamabad on Thursday 27 October. We talked about their local soccer teams, which they proudly related were named for Brazil, New Zealand and other nations, which they had heard about but never visited.

The next morning, I filmed young Tariq walking into a conference hall to greet his elders. I reviewed the tape after he was killed to see what was recorded of some of his last moments: he walks shyly and greets the Waziri elders in the traditional style by briefly touching their chests. With his friends, he walks to a set of chairs towards the back of the hall, and they argue briefly about where each of them will sit. Over the course of the morning, Tariq appears again in many photographs that dozens of those present took, always sitting quietly and listening intently.

Tariq was attending a "Waziristan Grand Jirga" on behalf of drone strike victims in Pakistan, which was held at the Margalla hotel the following day. As is the Pashtun custom, the young men, each of whom had lost a friend or relative in a drone strike, did not speak. For four hours, the Waziri elders debated the drone war, and then they listened to a resolution condemning the attacks, read out by Mirza Shahzad Akbar, a lawyer from the Foundation for Fundamental Rights. The group voted for this unanimously.

Neil Williams, a volunteer from Reprieve, the British legal charity, sat down and chatted with Tariq after the jirga was over. Together, they traveled in a van to the Pakistani parliament for a protest rally against drone strikes led by Imran Khan, a former cricketer, and now the leader of the Tehreek-e-Insaaf political party.

The next day, the group returned home to Waziristan. On Monday, Tariq was killed, according to his uncle Noor Kalam.

The question I would pose to the jury is this: would a terrorist suspect come to a public meeting and converse openly with foreign lawyers and reporters, and allow himself to be photographed and interviewed? More importantly, since he was so easily available, why could Tariq not have been detained in Islamabad, when we spent 48 hours together? Neither Tariz Aziz nor the lawyers attending this meeting had a highly trained private security detail that could have put up resistance.

Attending that jirga, however, were Clive Stafford Smith and Tara Murray, two US lawyers who trained at Columbia and Harvard. They tell me, unequivocally, that US law is based on the fact that every person is innocent until proven guilty. Why was Tariq, even if a terrorist suspect, not offered an opportunity to defend himself?

Let me offer important alternative argument – the US government has a record of making terrible mistakes in this covert war. On 2 September 2010, the International Security Assistance Force in Afghanistan claimed to have killed Muhammad Amin, the alleged Taliban deputy governor of Takhar province in Afghanistan, in a drone strike. There was only one problem: Michael Semple, a Taliban expert at Harvard University, subsequently interviewed Muhammad Amin and confirmed that he was alive and well and living in Pakistan in March 2011.

The man who was killed was Zabet Amanullah, who was out campaigning in parliamentary elections – along with nine of his fellow election workers. This was confirmed by exhaustive research conducted by Kate Clark, a former BBC correspondent in Kabul who now works for the Afghanistan Analysts Network, who had met with Zabet Amanullah in 2008. The error could have been avoided, Clark points out in her report, if US military intelligence officers had just been "watching election coverage on television", instead of living in its "parallel world" remote from "normal, everyday world of Afghan politics".

If Barack Obama's CIA believed in justice and judicial process, they could have attended the Islamabad jirga last Friday and met with Tariq. It was, after all, an open meeting. They could have arrested and charged Tariq with the help of the Pakistani police. If a prosecution is ever mounted over the death of Tariq, those of us who met him on several occasions last week would be happy to testify to the character of the young man that we had met. But if the CIA has evidence to the contrary, it should present it to the world.

Unless the CIA can prove that Tariq Aziz posed an imminent threat (as the White House's legal advice stipulates a targeted killing must in order for an attack to be carried out), or that he was a key planner in a war against the US or Pakistan, the killing of this 16 year old was murder, and any jury should convict the CIA accordingly.
 

PokerGuy

Lifer
Jul 2, 2005
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We sure wouldn't tolerate any country doing this to us in the US.

No, we sure wouldn't, just like we wouldn't tolerate "lawless tribal areas" in our country or have parts of the area under control of terrorist groups (OWS notwithstanding). Don't want other countries having to fly over and take out the bad guys? Take control of your own country and do it yourself.
 

ichy

Diamond Member
Oct 5, 2006
6,940
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If you can think of a way to fight a war without any collateral damage then I'm sure the Pentagon is all ears.
 

PeshakJang

Platinum Member
Mar 17, 2010
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Craig sure wouldn't tolerate such overtly biased and unsubstantiated opinion pieces in his own threads. Right?

PS - Miran Shah is basically the Washigton DC of foreign fighters in Pakistan. It is completely lawless, and inhabited almost entirely by terrorists/ foreign fighters. They conduct business openly and outright, because PK doesn't give 2 fucks. They won't bother them. That's a FACT your OpEd fails to take into account.
 

Patranus

Diamond Member
Apr 15, 2007
9,280
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No, we sure wouldn't, just like we wouldn't tolerate "lawless tribal areas" in our country or have parts of the area under control of terrorist groups (OWS notwithstanding). Don't want other countries having to fly over and take out the bad guys? Take control of your own country and do it yourself.

Pretty much this.
 

Texashiker

Lifer
Dec 18, 2010
18,811
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Link to article source?

As for the article, <sarcasm> he was declared a terrorist, and that is all we need to know </sarcasm>

The US government is out of control, and the sad part is the voters allow this to happen.

The people voted for change, we got change, I hope everyone is happy.
 
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irishScott

Lifer
Oct 10, 2006
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All wars have tragic collateral anecdotes. If the point of the article is that we should never have gone to war, great. That debate's only about 10 years old now. If the point is that said collateral anecdotes could be avoided while continuing the war, the author is delusional.
 

davmat787

Diamond Member
Nov 30, 2010
5,512
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Link to article source?

The author's wiki page:

Pratap Chatterjee (b. Birmingham, United Kingdom) is an Indian/Sri Lankan investigative journalist and progressive author. He is a British citizen and was raised in India, although he has lived in California for many years. He served as the executive director of CorpWatch, an Oakland-based corporate accountability organization from 2003 to 2008.[1] He is also a producer and radio host at KPFA-FM in Berkeley, California.[2]
Chatterjee has also served as a community advisor to KQED, the San Francisco public radio and television station. He was a member of the board of the Asian Pacific Environmental Network from 2001 to 2005, and was an Environmental Commissioner for the city of Berkeley from 1998 to 2003.[3] He helped start a new project called Crocodyl, which aims to research corporations using wiki technology and global South/North collaboration.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pratap_Chatterjee
 

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
38,548
350
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Link to article source?

As for the article, <sarcasm> he was declared a terrorist, and that is all we need to know </sarcasm>

The US government is out of control, and the sad part is the voters allow this to happen.

The people voted for change, we got change, I hope everyone is happy.

Um ya, this would be so much better if McCain/Palin would have been elected.

Real good government, non-violent politicians.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/cifamerica/2011/nov/07/cia-unaccountable-drone-war
 

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
38,548
350
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All wars have tragic collateral anecdotes. If the point of the article is that we should never have gone to war, great. That debate's only about 10 years old now. If the point is that said collateral anecdotes could be avoided while continuing the war, the author is delusional.

Your comment is idiotic. The point isn't that all 'collateral damage' can be avoided. Your argument is that no killing can ever be anything worse than unavoidable collateral damage.
 

Gamingphreek

Lifer
Mar 31, 2003
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Maybe I missed it, but how did the author come to the conclusion this was a US Drone Strike that was authorized only by the CIA?
 

irishScott

Lifer
Oct 10, 2006
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Your comment is idiotic. The point isn't that all 'collateral damage' can be avoided. Your argument is that no killing can ever be anything worse than unavoidable collateral damage.

My argument is that this killing is unavoidable collateral damage. Sure, maybe it was a mistake. Guess what? Mistakes unavoidably happen in war, and sometimes innocent people die for it. It's one of the many reasons war sucks.

I'm saying the CIA/military has no interest in killing innocent kids. Even from the coldest, most callous perspective it's a waste of resources (hellfire missiles are expensive). The only way to avoid stories like the one you posted is to never go to war. If people are outraged by this, then they should turn that outrage to the politicians who got us into this mess and not the instruments of the politicians' policy.
 

PokerGuy

Lifer
Jul 2, 2005
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From the author's wiki page: "... progressive author...". Translation: delusional idiot.
 

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
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350
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It would probably be better is the democraps and republicants were voted out of office, and we had a complete change in government.

Yes, it would be better if progressive Democrats were elected.

Your post was an attack on electing Obama. McCain/Palin was the alternative.
 

Texashiker

Lifer
Dec 18, 2010
18,811
198
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Yes, it would be better if progressive Democrats were elected.
McCain/Palin was the alternative.

I never said anything about McCain/Palin, you did.

I voted for Bob Barr/Wayne Root, who were the Libertarian candidates.
 

akahoovy

Golden Member
May 1, 2011
1,336
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I read through the article a couple of times, but I didn't see where they confirmed that the boy was killed by a missile strike. The most I got out of it was he was headed somewhere in a van and died.
 

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
38,548
350
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I read through the article a couple of times, but I didn't see where they confirmed that the boy was killed by a missile strike. The most I got out of it was he was headed somewhere in a van and died.

Says right here they were killed by drone missiles:

Over 2,300 people in Pakistan have been killed by such missiles carried by drone aircraft such as the Predator and the Reaper, and launched by remote control from Langley, Virginia. Tariq and Waheed brought the known total of children killed in this way to 175, according to statistics maintained by the organization I work for, the Bureau of Investigative Journalism.
 

akahoovy

Golden Member
May 1, 2011
1,336
1
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But an earlier sentence stated in the article said they suspected he was killed by it. That isn't very definitive.

I get the point of your article, but this instance seems inaccurate.
 

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
38,548
350
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But an earlier sentence stated in the article said they suspected he was killed by it. That isn't very definitive.

I get the point of your article, but this instance seems inaccurate.

The only uncertainty is his saying 'believed' to have been killed by a drone. Not believed he MIGHT have been, but believed he was. Not exactly concrete, but not really uncertain.

What do you mean this instance seems inaccurate?

Not anything in the article or that has been posted suggest whatsoever that it's 'inaccurate'.

It seems quite accurate from what we've seen.
 

akahoovy

Golden Member
May 1, 2011
1,336
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I meant since that it isn't concrete that the boys were killed by a missile strike, it seems inaccurate in this instance to be attributing their deaths to accidental strikes/wrong targets as there have been in the past.