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Killers son plans to sue

He said it right the second time.


David Letterman has said "Alex Rodrigers" or something to that effect two nights in a row on his first try - then proceeded to say it better.

I do it all the time. My vocal cords and mouth usually utterly fail to keep up with my brain.


When I heard about the execution results, I figured that would get some attention of this sort.
The guy likely wasn't conscious - but it's difficult to wiggle out of that one. And this all is because, all of a sudden, the drug manufacturers had a change of heart and no longer sell one of the chemicals involved in lethal injections because "that's not what we want our chemical being used for." Oh... it was fine for the first, what, 20+ years?

Frankly, when it comes to execution... I don't understand why the end goal to euthanize? What, exactly, have these people earned to put to death painlessly?

You know who deserves a painless death? The tortured souls in hospitals who know for sure they are dying, but have to suffer every last breath until their body gives out.

You know who deserves to feel every last painful breath? People who did unspeakably hostile acts toward other humans.

If we're going to have a death penalty - let's not cop out, waste unnecessary money, and otherwise make some excessive show about our moral high ground. Let's call it what it is - execution. Let's execute some murderers, or... just lock them up forever. Let's not split the middle here, attempting to appease everyone and be PC about it.
 
I'm sure the woman he killed suffered a LOT more. Her family should sue those morons for giving birth to that monster.
 
Well, when you die the pain is gone, so saying he suffered means what? If his brain is dead, how does he know he suffered.
 
uh.. does he have the grounds to sue? His murderer father was executed as punishment for his crime. He murdered a pregnant woman. He's gonna sue FOR his father? I really cannot garner any sympathy. The state of Ohio didn't intentionally try to make him suffer as their hands were tied because of the chemical supplier company. I hope it gets thrown out.
 
Why couldn't the Ohio authorities have just used the same injectable chemical brew on their death row prisoners that's used every day for euthanizing unwanted dogs and cats at the local animal shelter? Making the dosage appropriate according to body weight, of course...
 
The guy kidnaps a 22 year old, newly wed woman who was 30 months pregnant. He orally, vaginally and anally rapes her and then choked her. He stabbed her but hit a bone, so he sliced her neck open. If anyone has a problem with the method of execution, let him die the way she did.
 
Fritzo said:
I'm sure the woman he killed suffered a LOT more. Her family should sue those morons for giving birth to that monster.
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In an effort to blame his brother-in-law for the murder, Dennis McGuire described in detail how she was raped and butchered. The coroner confirmed the descriptions:

"The body was taken to the Montgomery County Coroner’s Office, where an autopsy was performed. The autopsy revealed that Joy had been stabbed twice. One wound, located above the left collarbone, caused no significant injury. The critical wound was a four-and-a-half-inch-deep cut in the throat, which completely severed the carotid artery and jugular vein.

The doctor determined that Joy was alive when she received the wound, and that such a wound could have been caused by a single-edged blade shorter than four and a half inches, due to "how soft and moveable the tissues are in the neck." The autopsy also revealed abrasions around the neck, impressed with the cloth pattern of Joy’s shirt. The coroner’s office also took vaginal, oral, and anal swabs.

The coroner found an abundant amount of sperm on the anal swab, some sperm on the vaginal swab, and none on the oral swab. The coroner indicated that sperm could be detected in the vagina for days or sometimes weeks after ejaculation; however, sperm in the rectum could be detected for a lesser time "because the environment is fairly hostile for sperm, and a bowel movement usually will purge the rectum of any sperm."
 
madoka said:
The guy kidnaps a 22 year old, newly wed woman who was 30 months pregnant. He orally, vaginally and anally rapes her and then choked her. He stabbed her but hit a bone, so he sliced her neck open. If anyone has a problem with the method of execution, let him die the way she did.
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World record right there :whiste:
 
The concept of painless execution has less to do with the criminal not suffering then it does with us trying to be as little like them as possible.
 
Its the cruel and unusual punishment requirement plus the double jeopardy stuff, execution has to be both certain and no more painful than needed.
 
Captante said:
The concept of painless execution has less to do with the criminal not suffering then it does with us trying to be as little like them as possible.
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CPA said:
Why?
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shortylickens said:
Because we are slightly more civilized than murderers.
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Why tell ourselves these lies? Let's call a spade a spade - we're killing someone because of their criminal past. Why dress it up?

We're not putting down a stray dog with unknown diseases and some mange who's terrorizing the local rabbit population - we're putting down a cruel bag of flesh who has demonstrated he can have zero compassion or humanity when desired. That's typically the case for most on death row.

Why are we so worried about putting on a mask of lies that only appeases the ones who are willing and able to pull down the veil of ignorance before their eyes?

Sometimes we need to revel in our humanity. We want to have, and enjoy, peace. Sometimes, blood must be spilled to maintain that peace. At some point, we MUST move beyond our prison of Political Correctness and accept that we can be both compassionate and cruel. Life is not a beautiful walk through the park for eternity. We can enjoy that, but we must protect that. Sometimes, we must treat a citizen as an enemy - for they are, an enemy of the peace.
That's not to say that everyone deserves cruel punishment. And there is no reason to go to excessively cruel lengths. Those that have demonstrated they aren't fit for life within the folds of humanity and civilization by torturing and murdering other citizens? Let's cease coddling them. Sure, they sit in the same prison like the other criminals, that's fine. It can be awhile too - that's better, they shouldn't die right away for what they did.
When it comes time to be executed, they shouldn't be permitted an easy exit; if they are on death row, they've demonstrated they have no respect for life.


Frankly, while I enjoy the folds of peaceful human civilization and freedom, without oppression... I wouldn't necessarily have any qualms against blood/death-sport for death row inmates. :\
 
Execution is not murder. Learn the difference noobs.

Oh and it's good to know that 1 execution = 5 less murders. 1 exoneration = 5 more murders (rough estimate).


Don't forget the fact that no one we executed the past 30 years have been proven innocent.


Death Penalty = Win/Win in the USA

Michael Frakes & Matthew Harding
The Deterrent Effect of Death Penalty Eligibility: Evidence from the Adoption of Child Murder Eligibility Factors
American Law and Economics Review, vol. 11, no. 2, pp. 451-497 (2009)

Abstract: We draw on variations in the reach of capital punishment statutes between 1977 and 2004 to identify the deterrent effects associated with capital eligibility. Focusing on the most prevalent eligibility expansion, we estimate that the adoption of a child murder factor is associated with an approximately 20% reduction in the child murder rate. Eligibilityexpansions may enhance deterrence by (i) paving the way for more executions and (ii) providing prosecutors with greater leverage to secure enhanced noncapital sentences. While executions themselves are rare, this latter channel may be triggered fairly regularly, providing a reasonable basis for a general deterrent response.


Hashem Dezhbakhsh & Paul H. Rubin
From the 'econometrics of capital punishment' to the 'capital punishment' of econometrics: on the use and abuse of sensitivity analysis
Applied Economics, Vol. 43, Issue 25, pages 3655-3670 (2011)

Abstract:The academic debate over the deterrent effect of capital punishment has intensified again with a major policy outcome at stake. About two dozen empirical studies have recently emerged that explore the issue. Donohue and Wolfers (2005) claim to have examined the recent studies and shown the evidence not to be robust to specification changes. We argue that the narrow scope of their study does not warrant this claim. Moreover, focusing on our two studies that they have examined, we show the deterrence findings to be robust, while their work has serious flaws and their reporting appears to be selective. The selectivity is biased towards showing 'no deterrence'.
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I'm absolutely and completely against unnecessary torture and making murderers suffer for their crimes, but man, an execution is an execution. Why do we spend so much time preoccupying ourselves with thinking an individual felt a little pain while he was being executed? Have any of you guys ever had surgery before? You lay down, and the surgeon asks you to count to 10. You usually pass out before you even make it to 10, and the surgeon starts working on for 1, 2, 6, 10 hours or whatever, and you wake up without any concept of time ever passing by. It's like the moment you close your eyes, you're waking up to the elevator door opening and cringing in pain at the bump you go over while going through the door.

Trust me, the man felt absolutely no pain, because you don't feel pain or remember anything while you're in an nREM sleep. To him, the moment he closed his eyes, that was it.

Edit - And I'm not trying to debate whether execution is right or wrong or not. That's for another discussion. All I'm saying is, once you're under, you don't feel a dang thing.
 
Ventanni said:
I'm absolutely and completely against unnecessary torture and making murderers suffer for their crimes, but man, an execution is an execution. Why do we spend so much time preoccupying ourselves with thinking an individual felt a little pain while he was being executed? Have any of you guys ever had surgery before? You lay down, and the surgeon asks you to count to 10. You usually pass out before you even make it to 10, and the surgeon starts working on for 1, 2, 6, 10 hours or whatever, and you wake up without any concept of time ever passing by. It's like the moment you close your eyes, you're waking up to the elevator door opening and cringing in pain at the bump you go over while going through the door.

Trust me, the man felt absolutely no pain, because you don't feel pain or remember anything while you're in an nREM sleep. To him, the moment he closed his eyes, that was it.

Edit - And I'm not trying to debate whether execution is right or wrong or not. That's for another discussion. All I'm saying is, once you're under, you don't feel a dang thing.
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Unless you're not under.

Which will probably be the only thing they look at this for this. Is there evidence he was fully sedated, regardless of what his body was doing?

I'm pretty sure that's going to be a resounding yes. They typically give larger doses than usual of the sedation drug, which alone can kill you, to absolutely ensure the individual will not feel absolutely anything that is about to happen.
That second drug comes through and completely engages every single nerve, forcing all skeletal and smooth-tissue muscles to contract (IIRC).
If you could feel that, it would hurt like a motherfucker. Can't breathe, your heart can't pump, many muscles feel like they might be ready to snap a bone.
I might be wrong - but I'm pretty sure it's a fairly painful paralysis.

But they are so completely knocked out that, to the conscious brain, they are in a state of sleep deeper than sleep. It can't process anything the nerves are saying, the nerves are "reacting" on pure electrical potential signals and not even any unconscious nerve impulses.

Without the drug forcing the body to react so violently, that heavy dose of sedative SHOULD eventually have killed him as well - likely by dropping the pulse and breathing rate to a point too shallow to maintain consciousness.
 
destrekor said:
Unless you're not under.

Which will probably be the only thing they look at this for this. Is there evidence he was fully sedated, regardless of what his body was doing?
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Yes, he's sedated. I don't know their dosage, but I'm sure they do at least 10x the dose of one, 10x the dose of the other.

One drug is good enough. 2 is a double whammy. That guy didn't feel anything.
 
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That must indeed be sad to watch your dad (or any family member or friend) being killed by your own government. This is the kind of world we live in. I doubt he can sue, it's not like it's the first time a public execution has been done.

Question is, what did this guy do to get a lethal injection? If he shooted up a school or something then perhaps he deserved it.
 
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