Kids that were deemed 'gifted' in elementary school..

[shortylickens]

Well yea it gives them this aura of they are better than others. For whatever reason I didn't like that 'special' attention. But that was my personality. A couple kids who were in my gifted program were the biggest assholes in school and still are when I've run into them.

Actually the whole culture mindset in the 90s and 00s about everyone is a winner no one is a loser etc is what has set my generation up for failure, they think the world should be handed to them on a silver platter...which of course is wrong, the only way you can truly be successful is hard work(unless you have a trust fund)

You really need to read the book.
That shit started in the 70's and peaked in the 80's. In the 90's most schools gave it up or heavily reformed their approach.

 

[Jeff7]

Once again, I have to push my favorite book on this subject: The Self Esteem Trap.
It talks a lot about this. One of the thing she noted was that seperating gifted kids and treating them special was NOT a good idea.

But what's the alternative? Keep them slowed down and at the pace of the rest of the kids at the government-funded daycare center?

 

[TraumaRN]

But what's the alternative? Keep them slowed down and at the pace of the rest of the kids at the government-funded daycare center?

No but either allow class/grade skipping or do it in such a way that you don't tell them you are special or smarter...it's a tough question and no real easy answer.

 

[TecHNooB]

But what's the alternative? Keep them slowed down and at the pace of the rest of the kids at the government-funded daycare center?

The actual smart kids do a lot on their own time at a very young age. The ones who whine about not being challenged enough in school? No comment.

 

[Dangerer]

My sister was deemed a gifted student. She was invited to attend a GATE students only school from 1st grade all the way through 6th grade. Her grades fell in middle school and then bombed in high school. She's now on the verge of being a college drop out from her incredibly lazy habits and party all day mindset. Not really sure if she's a substance abuser since we've grown very distant throughout the years.

On the other hand, I was a horrible elementary student. Did kind of well in middle schools but all my courses were remedial. High school may as well have even never existed since I graduated with almost a 2.0 GPA. Got my act together in college and I'm about to graduate with a BS in bio sci from a UC Irvine with good marks and I've also submitted apps for pharmacy school.

Go figure...

 

[Jeff7]

The actual smart kids do a lot on their own time at a very young age. The ones who whine about not being challenged enough in school? No comment.

Doesn't that assume that they have the necessary resources available outside of school, and parents who are able to help out as well?

No but either allow class/grade skipping or do it in such a way that you don't tell them you are special or smarter...it's a tough question and no real easy answer.

And there's always those who don't fit in anyway, so skipping them ahead or otherwise separating them from the rest would make little difference. 😉

 

[Merithynos]

I was in the "gifted" track throughout my public school days...it still bored the shit out of me. I loafed my way through high school (top 10% of the class, missed the top SAT score in my class by 10 points despite a raging hangover), went to American University in DC on an academic scholarship expecting an intellectual challenge. Dropped out when I realized that despite being in the "Honors Program" I was expected to take 2-ish years of classes I had already covered either in high school or independently (university education is the biggest scam, ever). Got a job at a financial services company, where I now work as an IT Project Manager.

 

[SpatiallyAware]

Terman did the first real study, but there have been others (especially ones like Oden, who looked at exactly what you're asking). <snip>


I could give you a first hand account from my perspective, but that type of anecdotal storytelling is hardly conclusive proof of anything.

I'd love to hear more.. I'm going to look into Oden and what they have to say about it..


To the person who posted about the weird test.. I also remember it, very vaguely even though I remember other events from that timeframe just fine.


It seems like it was a huge deal that "I" verbally said I wanted to be a part of the program.. Which looking back seems ridiculous since my parents (mom at the time) would've had the final word?

I also came from a difficult childhood, as did most of the other elementary gifted kids.


It's odd because I feel like have this connection extremely strongly with some people - like one of the owners where I work.. When we first met it just seemed like we both sorta "knew".. I dunno... I'm starting to sound crazy, but I definitely do think that there is something different about the early gifted kids... Maybe it is just IQ, but I feel like I can tell if someone is gifted well before knowing their IQ level.

 

[MagnusTheBrewer]

Half of my teachers in Elementary School wanted to skip me ahead. The other half wanted to hold me back a year. So, I stayed in my regular grade level. 🙂 When I went to 'grade' school, there were no gifted programs unless you went to a private academy. I do hold the distinction of being the only kid I know who got kicked off of Romper Room (think Sesame Street only earlier).

 

[TecHNooB]

I'd love to hear more.. I'm going to look into Oden and what they have to say about it..


To the person who posted about the weird test.. I also remember it, very vaguely even though I remember other events from that timeframe just fine.


It seems like it was a huge deal that "I" verbally said I wanted to be a part of the program.. Which looking back seems ridiculous since my parents (mom at the time) would've had the final word?

I also came from a difficult childhood, as did most of the other elementary gifted kids.


It's odd because I feel like have this connection extremely strongly with some people - like one of the owners where I work.. When we first met it just seemed like we both sorta "knew".. I dunno... I'm starting to sound crazy, but I definitely do think that there is something different about the early gifted kids... Maybe it is just IQ, but I feel like I can tell if someone is gifted well before knowing their IQ level.

Your definition of gifted seems to be wrapped around these programs. Are you still considered 'gifted'? What do you have to show for it besides this childhood selection process.

 

[Zebo]

I was gifted but extremely lazy, still am - helps with not working so much and still surviving. When I went to school IQ tests were still given and we were segregated - I liked hanging out with normal people and not working so hard so I was sure to fail all tests.

 

[fleabag]

Well yea it gives them this aura of they are better than others. For whatever reason I didn't like that 'special' attention. But that was my personality. A couple kids who were in my gifted program were the biggest assholes in school and still are when I've run into them.

Actually the whole culture mindset in the 90s and 00s about everyone is a winner no one is a loser etc is what has set my generation up for failure, they think the world should be handed to them on a silver platter...which of course is wrong, the only way you can truly be successful is hard work(unless you have a trust fund)

that smells like bullshit. Having money doesn't make success any easier, just look at General Motors and what the pile of steaming shit it turned into despite how much money they used to have in the bank..

 

[Zebo]

that smells like bullshit. Having money doesn't make success any easier, just look at General Motors and what the pile of steaming shit it turned into despite how much money they used to have in the bank..

You're in the wrong thread fleabag. He said gifted not twisted.

 

[MotF Bane]

I lived an a "'progressive" area, which felt that having gifted classes was discriminatory. Consequently everything got dumbed down. My daughter had very poor grades until we moved, not because she couldn't do the material but because she was bored to tears. Teachers apologized, but they were effectively prohibited from doing much because of the "enlightened". Unfortunately that left a lasting impression which we've been trying to counter ever since.

Nice.

I had exactly the same situation, except I was the student not the parent. The school system poured money into the "special needs" (mentally disabled etc.) sections, and the rest of the place was forgotten.

 

[PrinceofWands]

No but either allow class/grade skipping or do it in such a way that you don't tell them you are special or smarter...it's a tough question and no real easy answer.

Just advancing kids to higher grade material taught in the same fashion doesn't help very much. Some, but not much.

Teaching someone with a 150IQ is as different from teaching an average person as teaching someone with a 50IQ. However much work and change is required to make that lower IQ education work, is how much work and change the upper IQ needs as well. With the lower intelligences funded hundreds of times more than higher that's just not going to happen.

For instance: $.02 out of every $100.00 education budget went to gifted education or government supported research. In 2005 the fed spent $7,500,000 for gifted education research. By comparison, in the same year the federal government alone spent $83,000,000 in special education research and data gather.

83 million so that billy bob can mispell his name in crayon, while only 7.5 million went to support and encourage the person who is going to cure cancer. That's some good funding there Lou.

The bottom line is, intelligent kids ARE smarter...umm, it's the definition of intelligence, duh. That doesn't make them better, but a kid with a 150IQ is SIGNIFICANTLY smarter than a kid with a 100IQ. That's facts, and there's nothing we can do to change them. Covering them up helps NO ONE. This whole 'teaching to averages' concept is destroying our nation, and will eventually ruin the world if it isn't stopped. Average is bullshit, it does not really exist. We need to stop embracing it.

 

[PrinceofWands]

I'd love to hear more.. I'm going to look into Oden and what they have to say about it..


To the person who posted about the weird test.. I also remember it, very vaguely even though I remember other events from that timeframe just fine.


It seems like it was a huge deal that "I" verbally said I wanted to be a part of the program.. Which looking back seems ridiculous since my parents (mom at the time) would've had the final word?

I also came from a difficult childhood, as did most of the other elementary gifted kids.


It's odd because I feel like have this connection extremely strongly with some people - like one of the owners where I work.. When we first met it just seemed like we both sorta "knew".. I dunno... I'm starting to sound crazy, but I definitely do think that there is something different about the early gifted kids... Maybe it is just IQ, but I feel like I can tell if someone is gifted well before knowing their IQ level.

http://www.indiana.edu/~intell/

That's an ok starting point if you're interested in researching the subject. There's more than enough info there to lead you in the direction you want. As always I recommend looking for college syllabi on related subjects, obtaining some of their required readings, and then pursuing the bibliographies or suggested readings if you're more serious about it.

You should definitely look into Austin & Hanisch, Hernstein & Murray, Ree & Earles, Hunter & Schmidt, McClelland, Sternberg, Wagner, Cronbach, Holahan & Sears, Garland & Zigler, Robinson & Clinkenbeard, Winner, Ludwig, Renzulli, Callahan, Richert, Simonton, Bloom, Ericsson & Lehman, and Howe. (google any of those with intelligence and you should get a good start)

I also STRONGLY recommend that you don't focus too narrowly on intelligence. There are overlaps between cognitive, developmental, personality, and abnormal psychology, as well as education, sociology, anthropology, and even history. Studying all of them will give you far better insight than focusing on any one.

If you have other specific questions, or want discussions or info, let me know.

 

[Gunslinger08]

I was in the gifted program. Started in 3rd grade. Don't really remember what we did. I ended up skipping a math level in 6th grade, so I had two years of calculus in high school. Overall, I think the school system did an okay job with me. I had a lot of options for advanced classes in high school and I graduated with nearly 30 college credits. I don't have an issue with teaching to the average student. If you're more intelligent than the average student, it's on you to learn what you want.

 

[arrfep]

I was in TAG (Talented and Gifted) and then EOP (Extra Opportunity Program?).

I've since dropped out of college multiple times, it's been 10 years since I graduated high school and I have very little direction in my life.

I think many times what makes children gifted when they are younger is the ability to process multiple streams of information at once, or to process it faster than average. That can more bane than boon later in life. I will take a stab in the dark and guess that there's a high incidence of ADD amongst "gifted" kids. You get used to having your brain run a million miles a minute and eventually you can't keep up with it. I've met my fair share of they stereotypical failed genius/unfulfilled creative type. Very interesting phenomenon.

 

[grrl]

that smells like bullshit. Having money doesn't make success any easier, just look at General Motors and what the pile of steaming shit it turned into despite how much money they used to have in the bank..

Obvious stupidity is obvious.

 

[SpatiallyAware]

I was in TAG (Talented and Gifted) and then EOP (Extra Opportunity Program?).

I've since dropped out of college multiple times, it's been 10 years since I graduated high school and I have very little direction in my life.

I think many times what makes children gifted when they are younger is the ability to process multiple streams of information at once, or to process it faster than average. That can more bane than boon later in life. I will take a stab in the dark and guess that there's a high incidence of ADD amongst "gifted" kids. You get used to having your brain run a million miles a minute and eventually you can't keep up with it. I've met my fair share of they stereotypical failed genius/unfulfilled creative type. Very interesting phenomenon.

The multiple streams of information is a great way of explaining it that I hadn't thought of before...

Another example... I've ridden motorcycles on the street for ~8 years, (roughly 18k a year commuting, another 30k+ on long weekend trips) and I've never dropped a bike. Statistically it's an anomaly.. It's gotten to where it messes with me when I ride, thinking about how many accidents I've avoided (be it luck or a raised awareness or something).. Yes I took the MSF/safety courses, wear full gear, etc.. But I swear some motorcyclists develop an almost 6th sense in traffic

 

[Electric Amish]

I was in the gifted classes in junior high school (I don't know that we had any classes in elementary).

Out of high school I got a 1-year scholarship to a state university which I could renew yearly if I met certain criteria. I attended for a year, but then dropped out and married my high school girlfriend at 19. I worked retail sales while attending night classes at a community college paying for it myself. Then I got a job as a technician in a research lab. This company paid for tuition so I used that to continue night-classes until I got an associates in Chemistry. The research lab was closed in our state and moved back to corporate headquarters so I moved on to my current career at a pharmaceutical company. They paid for tuition as well, so I continued night-classes to another associates degree in Computer Science. I then moved on to night-classes at a university and eventually graduated with a BS in Computer Science at 30.

I don't know what that says about anything....

 

[RKS]

This is ATOT; everyone is a gifted bazillionaire except for me. I hated school, drudged through it, was always the "has a lot of potential" child but was too lazy.

 

[Whisper]

My brother and I were both in the gifted program starting at about kindergarten. He left college after his first semester, got a job in IT, and has been very accomplished in network security at various companies since then. I graduated college, am working towards my doctorate in clinical psychology, and haven't had a "real" job (i.e., full-time, 8-5 deal) for more than a year and a half my entire life. I'd say we've both been "successful" in our own right.

 

[frostedflakes]

I was in a "gifted" program in elementary and middle school. I definitely felt smart all the way up through high school and could usually pin someone who I felt belonged in the program; typically they were more receptive, quicker to pick up on things, stuff like that. I feel like I plateaued after high school though, and I no longer feel smart. I feel pretty dumb nowadays; I had to really concentrate and actually study in college, and now at work (I'm a programmer), a lot of things seem over my head and it takes me a while to understand new ideas. I feel like I still could be "smart," but it's like my creativity is just stifled. I still tend towards the geekier side of the spectrum as I love learning and could research various topics all day, but I just don't feel like the bright, sharp intellect that I thought I was before.

Same here. I mean I'd consider myself above average intelligence, but there are people I meet in school who are just brilliant. Seems like stuff comes to them so easily, whereas I have difficulty wrapping my head around the same concepts.

I was given an IQ test in first grade IIRC. I've read that especially when you're younger, these tests can be kind of inaccurate (is there any truth to this?). I think I got 136 +/- 4 points. Don't remember which test, but I think it's the one where 140 is considered "genius" or whatever.

The program itself was pretty cool, I remember getting to do a lot of fun and interesting stuff that we obviously weren't doing in the regular classroom. A lot of it was in very small groups, either one on one with the teacher or with two students and a teacher. But by the time I got to middle school, I just started to lose interest and motivation. The program provided a lot of neat opportunities to students who wanted to take advantage of them, but I never really bothered.

 

[arrfep]

The multiple streams of information is a great way of explaining it that I hadn't thought of before...

Another example... I've ridden motorcycles on the street for ~8 years, (roughly 18k a year commuting, another 30k+ on long weekend trips) and I've never dropped a bike. Statistically it's an anomaly.. It's gotten to where it messes with me when I ride, thinking about how many accidents I've avoided (be it luck or a raised awareness or something).. Yes I took the MSF/safety courses, wear full gear, etc.. But I swear some motorcyclists develop an almost 6th sense in traffic

Interestingly enough, I've been driving for 13 years and never been in an accident (knock on wood). IMO, it's less luck than the result of heightened awareness. I've been in plenty of near-misses, and many that I think a less aware driver would not have been able to avoid. I've just always been observant/hyper-aware, to the point of annoyance sometimes. Goes along with the whole mind-always-moving, voices-in-my-head type thing. Makes it hard to pay attention because I'm always thinking about something which means I'm always thinking about something else other than what I should.