Keynesian policies have failed to reduce unemployment here.

[Anarchist420]

Link.

Such high levels of public spending and nothing good to show for it.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-...illion-labor-force-participation-rate-1979-le

 

[fskimospy]

A broken link to zero hedge. Compelling argument.

For a fun thought experiment go look at zero hedges predictions over the last few years and try to calculate how much money you would have lost in the market if you followed them. It isn't pretty.

 

[mwilliams8705]

88,000 gained vs more lost and more people giving up on finding work makes for a reduction in the unemployment number.

Unbelievable.

 

[fskimospy]

88,000 gained vs more lost and more people giving up on finding work makes for a reduction in the unemployment number.

Unbelievable.

What is unbelievable about that? Do you know how U3 is calculated?

 

[Anarchist420]

For a fun thought experiment go look at zero hedges predictions over the last few years and try to calculate how much money you would have lost in the market if you followed them. It isn't pretty.

Then I guess they must have been Keynesian over the years. Also, the stock market is risky venture.

 

[mwilliams8705]

What is unbelievable about that? Do you know how U3 is calculated?

No it is unbelievable how people follow that number. We only gained 88,000 jobs but also.

So now MSNBC will say, "OMG 88,000 jobs created and unemployment goes down. Everyone praise Obama.!"

 

[shortylickens]

This is gonna make me sound like a dickscarf but:

Theres no such thing as Keynesian policies. Its a theory. And sometimes the Democrat or Republican policies use Keynesian theories.

 

[Anarchist420]

This is gonna make me sound like a dickscarf but:

Theres no such thing as Keynesian policies. Its a theory. And sometimes the Democrat or Republican policies use Keynesian theories.

You're right. However, in the absence of a State, Keynesian theory would not be suggested because the events that increased aggregate demand would happen only through human action.

 

[fskimospy]

No it is unbelievable how people follow that number. We only gained 88,000 jobs but also.

So now MSNBC will say, "OMG 88,000 jobs created and unemployment goes down. Everyone praise Obama.!"

Why is it unbelievable? What number do you think people should focus on instead?

 

[ivwshane]

Why is it unbelievable? What number do you think people should focus on instead?

I don't even know what he's talking about or what his point is with that chart so kudos to you if you get what he's trying to say at all.

 

[mwilliams8705]

Why is it unbelievable? What number do you think people should focus on instead?

U6 which still puts unemployment at 14%

 

[fskimospy]

U6 which still puts unemployment at 14%

U6 includes people such as those who claim that they want to work but have done nothing to search for a job.

Why would that be a preferable measure?

 

[Capt Caveman]

Link.

Such high levels of public spending and nothing good to show for it.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-...illion-labor-force-participation-rate-1979-le

You wouldn't look for a job no matter what policy was being followed.

 

[mwilliams8705]

U6 includes people such as those who claim that they want to work but have done nothing to search for a job.

Why would that be a preferable measure?

Because that is true unemployment.

 

[ivwshane]

U6 includes people such as those who claim that they want to work but have done nothing to search for a job.

Why would that be a preferable measure?

He wishes to use the less commen number so he can point out to those less knowledgable and say, "see things are still really bad", all while forgetting that the more knowledgable people can look to past U6 numbers and other factors like baby boomers retiring and call him on his bullshit.

 

[fskimospy]

Because that is true unemployment.

The purpose of unemployment numbers is to inform policymakers and the public of the state of the economy. How does a measure that includes people who aren't even trying to get a job give a superior picture?

 

[mwilliams8705]

The purpose of unemployment numbers is to inform policymakers and the public of the state of the economy. How does a measure that includes people who aren't even trying to get a job give a superior picture?

Because it shows how many people have retired and how many people have taken early retirement or just gave up and decided to go full on government assistance because it is pointless.

 

[MomentsofSanity]

I can't believe anyone takes anything on zerohedge seriously. That's a couple links today and their track record is that of horrific pessimism and a total lack of comprehension.

 

[zanejohnson]

everyone knows the real unemployment numbers.. they can't be public, because then people will actually see how bad it really is..


i would say for every 10 able workers, there are 5 unemployed able workers...

because of demographics we can't really base this figure off of a percentage of people as a whole...elderly, and disabled, which is blended so closely with the former "unemployed." counts for so much more than what the numbers state..

it's going to take something drastic, like the reformation of the usa states, (like the ussr) and just "erasing" a large amount of the "known" population from the records to make the numbers look right (just like the ussr)

the saving grace, may be infact, the illegals.. because with illegals, for every 10 working, able to work, illegals.. there's 9, who are getting that pay, under the table..

the money is still moving, it's just that nobody wants to move it through the "current system."

not only that, but the printed currency is all sitting in pallots underground owned by the cartel, waiting for somewhere ballsy enough to launder it. (although alot of this is going shell corp/shell traded) as we begin to actually go away from paper as a civilization.

 

[mwilliams8705]

This is why I'm for lessening the requirements on citizenship, but also you have to cut the entitlements or it is just going to increase the costs per each one that becomes a citizen.

 

[irishScott]

Dammit he's getting sneaky. Usually I can tell anarchist posts by the title, this one sounded serious and I actually had to look at the user. :|

 

[etrigan420]

Dammit he's getting sneaky. Usually I can tell anarchist posts by the title, this one sounded serious and I actually had to look at the user. :|

Yup.

I miss the "Calvin Coolidge was the best President since James Buchanan" threads...

Good times, where have you gone?

 

[Fern]

Under current economic circumstances the E3, heck even the E6 numbers don't accurately portray our condition. E.g., people becoming so disillusioned they stop looking isn't a good thing but results in a positive number. That is misleading.

I've heard reports that the number of people on govt disability has skyrocketed lately. I've also heard that those disability are not counted as unemployed either (for either E3 or E6). I doubt we've had an unfortunate surge of accidents such that so many have become disabled. Many suspect the rules are now being interpreted more 'favorably' since there are no jobs etc.

These unemployment statistics will also work in opposite direct: When things get better the numbers will look worse. People will be coming off the sidelines looking for a job thus driving our unemployment number higher.

IMO, those numbers just aren't suitable for our present economic condition.

Fern

 

[Anarchist420]

Under current economic circumstances the E3, heck even the E6 numbers don't accurately portray our condition. E.g., people becoming so disillusioned they stop looking isn't a good thing but results in a positive number. That is misleading. I've heard reports that the number of people on govt disability has skyrocketed lately. I've also heard that those disability are not counted as unemployed either (for either E3 or E6). I doubt we've had an unfortunate surge of accidents such that so many have become disabled. Many suspect the rules are now being interpreted more 'favorably' since there are no jobs etc. These unemployment statistics will also work in opposite direct: When things get better the numbers will look worse. People will be coming off the sidelines looking for a job thus driving our unemployment number higher. IMO, those numbers just aren't suitable for our present economic condition. Fern __________________

I agree. People looking towards the govt for private sector job creation are even more delusional than me.

What has the world come to when the National Debt is at 110% of GDP, nothing good to show for it, and people say the govt still isn't stealing enough.

I'm not saying that I know that a stateless society would offer higher employment, but it wouldn't be any worse overall because there could never be enough of a difference in unemployment to offset having no public debt.

 

[OverVolt]

Keynes only cared about his own lifetime. He didn't care about what happens after. All he did was convince policy makers to allow a debt binge for his lifetime so he lived through a golden age.

From the framework of 1929 or WWII, yes we needed looser lending standards. It was inhibiting the economy. From the framework of 2013, just wow, what are we doing? LOL

The banks own just about everything (cars, houses, etc) but if people are unable to make their payments who are the banks going to sell the assets to? Other banks in the same situation? People with savings (lol right!)

Finance is too high a percentage of GDP. Just like when Britain lost their empire status. End of story.

Finance is famous in my book for over-complicating everything.