Keynesian policies at work! Shrinking deficit

[StageLeft]

I'll bite. Adding infrastructure provides opportunity for wealth creation by facilitating commerce. Roads, rail lines, canals, schools, ports, bridges, etc. all facilitate current and future economic activity.
Blowing shit up has the opposite effect. Although you do have to pay for the bombs and bomb-droppers, which does stimulate the economy a bit, those investments do not have positive long-term benefits.

Yep. Analogous to Bob who borrows $20k to buy a car and then races it in the Derby that weekend and destroys it and has nothing to show for it and Jim who borrows $20k to buy a car and starts using it to look for work, finds a job, and uses it to commute to work. One was a good debt, one a bad, no points on figuring out which is which.

 

[dullard]

I'm not sure that I like the comparison they are using. It is a bit crude just averaging the deficit for the first six months of two fiscal years. I much perfer a rolling average, including all data from all months from many years.

Using the rolling average, the deficit really hit its peak in Oct 2008. It stayed at that peak more or less until May 2009. That peak period included both Bush and Obama; just to let people know this is reasonably politically neutral. Then the deficit has fairly steadilly declined but it is still quite high.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

You get a bigger return for your money with building and improving infrastructure. Better roads, bridges, schools, etc improve the overall efficiency of the country and continue to give these benefits for decades. Consider the Golden Gate Bridge, the Hoover Damn, State Universities, and the US interstate highway system, even after 50+ years these projects still contribute to economic health of the US.

War is a black hole for resources including people. Actually, considering the social and cultural costs of the Viet Nam War, we need a better metric for determining the economic cost\benefit analysis of war.

This is true. Borrow a trillion and put a few percent here and there for infrastructure.

Anyone have an actual breakdown of how this is all being spent?

 

[nick1985]

Spending money that you dont have is always a great idea. Just ask anyone drowning in credit card debt.

 

[CaptainGoodnight]

Keynesian economics also call for tax cuts during economic downturn. GWB was more a Keynesian than Obama is.

 

[sMiLeYz]

Spending money that you dont have is always a great idea. Just ask anyone drowning in credit card debt.

how the fk do you pay for grad school, and buy a house? government spends money, get over it

 

[Moonbeam]

You fucking Republicans are going to be real sick if the US recovers. You'll have to try to destroy it again in seven years.

 

[nick1985]

You fucking Republicans are going to be real sick if the US recovers. You'll have to try to destroy it again in seven years.

I've been reading your posts since I joined many years ago, and I have to say in the past year or so you have gone fucking insane. Something is seriously wrong with you.

 

[nick1985]

how the fk do you pay for grad school, and buy a house? government spends money, get over it

I'm not going to "get over it". Our debt is ruining this country. At what point do you feel the government needs to stop adding to the debt? Is it not too high right now? What will a giant deficit do to the nation in the long run? How do you feel about CBO projections of a 20 trillion debt by 2020?

 

[xj0hnx]

I'm not going to "get over it". Our debt is ruining this country. At what point do you feel the government needs to stop adding to the debt? Is it not too high right now? What will a giant deficit do to the nation in the long run? How do you feel about CBO projections of a 20 trillion debt by 2020?

The loony left doesn't grasp the concept of debt, or personal responsibility, their government model removes those concepts for them.

 

[sMiLeYz]

The loony left doesn't grasp the concept of debt, or personal responsibility, their government model removes those concepts for them.

I'm actually a moderate. I don't think you grasp economics, what part of spending money to make money don't you understand? Obama's stimulus package worked! The Deficit is shrinking.

Increasing the national debt doesn't matter when:
1) You're in a recession
2) Your nominal GDP is expanding relative to spending (it is)
3) The government is investing in public goods (infastructure, education,healthcare)

 

[Siddhartha]

The loony left doesn't grasp the concept of debt, or personal responsibility, their government model removes those concepts for them.

Where were you during the George W Bush years?

 

[Moonbeam]

I've been reading your posts since I joined many years ago, and I have to say in the past year or so you have gone fucking insane. Something is seriously wrong with you.

In the past year or so Obama ran and was elected President. In the past year or so the right wing had their testicles shrink to the size of peas and their shrill girly voices have filled the air with their pathetic insanity. As a mirror I have had to work hard to keep up. Glad you're beginning to notice how you look.

PS: By the way, I am always open to debating what I say. I do, however, normally pay little attention to romantic attempts to flatter me.

 

[nick1985]

Obama's stimulus package worked!

/facepalm

 

[nick1985]

PS: By the way, I am always open to debating what I say.

Nobody can debate what you say because what you say is psychotic babble.

 

[xj0hnx]

I'm actually a moderate. I don't think you grasp economics, what part of spending money to make money don't you understand? Obama's stimulus package worked! The Deficit is shrinking.

Increasing the national debt doesn't matter when:
1) You're in a recession
2) Your nominal GDP is expanding relative to spending (it is)
3) The government is investing in public goods (infastructure, education,healthcare)

Obama's stimulus that Bush signed into law in '08? Or are you trying to say only Obama's worked?

If I am in debt for say $10,000, and borrow $15,000, then pay off the $10,000 and have $5000 left over guess what? I am not out of debt the $10,000. Wait, they didn't even pay off the debt that was already owed, so instead they went further into debt to "spend money" they didn't have, "to make money" with no intention of paying back. The idea that you can borrow your way out of debt is retarded.

 

[xj0hnx]

Where were you during the George W Bush years?

Complaining that Bush was ruining the country, where were you?

 

[sMiLeYz]

Obama's stimulus that Bush signed into law in '08? Or are you trying to say only Obama's worked?

Are you confusing TARP with the stimulus?

 

[xj0hnx]

Are you confusing TARP with the stimulus?

Are you confusing the Emergency Economic Stabilization Act of 2008, with the Economic Stimulus Act of 2008?

 

[sMiLeYz]

Are you confusing the Emergency Economic Stabilization Act of 2008, with the Economic Stimulus Act of 2008?

So you are confused, the EESA 2008 established the Troubled Assets Relief Program. I just call it it TARP. The EESA was an emergency measure designed to save the banking sector by providing liquidity into the system and to buy up toxic assets off the bank's balance sheets. It's purpose wasn't to stimulate the economy.

Economic stimulus act of 2008 was the actual fiscal stimulus by saving millions of state jobs nationwide, providing investment in infrastructure, and to alleviate tax revenue and budget shortfall of states across the country.

Both worked very well, only one can be considered fiscal stimulus.

 

[Moonbeam]

Nobody can debate what you say because what you say is psychotic babble.

Yup, there isn't any point in debating with you, I know, but I don't mind showing you who you are.

 

[PeshakJang]

You get a bigger return for your money with building and improving infrastructure. Better roads, bridges, schools, etc improve the overall efficiency of the country and continue to give these benefits for decades. Consider the Golden Gate Bridge, the Hoover Damn, State Universities, and the US interstate highway system, even after 50+ years these projects still contribute to economic health of the US.

War is a black hole for resources including people. Actually, considering the social and cultural costs of the Viet Nam War, we need a better metric for determining the economic cost\benefit analysis of war.

You do realize that a large majority of the technological advances we have enjoyed over the last 100 years are due to wartime research? The economic and social toll of a war can be immense, but to say that it is a black hole is being just plain ignorant of history.

 

[xj0hnx]

So you are confused, the EESA 2008 established the Troubled Assets Relief Program. I just call it it TARP. The EESA was an emergency measure designed to save the banking sector by providing liquidity into the system and to buy up toxic assets off the bank's balance sheets. It's purpose wasn't to stimulate the economy.

Economic stimulus act of 2008 was the actual fiscal stimulus by saving millions of state jobs nationwide, providing investment in infrastructure, and to alleviate tax revenue and budget shortfall of states across the country.

Both worked very well, only one can be considered fiscal stimulus.

No, not confused at all, I'm just waiting for you to give Bush props for his stimulus package like you do Obama.

 

[Jaskalas]

Uhh yeah... that's what stimulating the economy does. Of course Republicans claim that stimulating the economy is done by spending less...

We believe in spending by the people. Contrary to your apparent belief, the government is not the people.

 

[ShawnD1]

Ideally, but in practice a lot of stimulating the economy seems to be nothing more than trying to charge a battery via a solar cell and the light to charge that cell is from a light bulb drawing energy from the battery you're trying to charge. I always get a huge kick out of politicians talking about how some new job that is paid for with public funds will create a new tax payer. It's a monumental face palm.

:hmm: Grandpa, what brought us out of the great depression?
:awe: World War 2 did. The government spent billions of dollars to ramp up production of everything.
:hmm: Would that work in today's recession? We could do something useful like upgrade the electrical infrastructure until the economy is going again.
:awe: Nope, it won't work because the government is wasteful and building things never stimulates the economy.