Keyboards!

[TBSN]

Hi all,

I'm really in need of a new keyboard that I'm going to be using for (guess what?) typing! There are a ton of keyboards out there, from fancy gamer keyboards that light up to less <$10 OEM ones.

What I need is a keyboard that is good for typing, and does not have cheap, flimsy-feeling keys. My main priority would be the quality of the keyboard and solid-feeling keystrokes. Media keys and other features are not necessary. It would be nice to have a keyboard with some extra programmable buttons, but if I have to get another really crappy keyboard just to get a bunch of media keys it's not worth it.

One keyboard that I say that looked promising was the Enermax Aurora. It's made out of aluminum, so it should be pretty solid. I think it is a slim keyboard though, which I'm not sure I would like, but at least it would be similar to my laptop. The price is really high too, but I don't know what a "quality" keyboard usually goes for. I've been using crappy Dell keyboards for forever...

Anyway, any suggestions, info or comments would be great. thanks

 

[AmberClad]

Sounds like you're in the market for one of those IBM "clicky" keyboards. I think they use real springs instead of the silicone bubbles that modern ones have (someone please correct me if I'm wrong). Anyways, I personally can't stand the amount of noise they create, but I've seen plenty of people swear by them because of the solid feel and durability.

 

[Roguestar]

Logitec Ultra-X Flat keyboard. Great to type on.

 

[Aluvus]

Originally posted by: AmberClad
Sounds like you're in the market for one of those IBM "clicky" keyboards. I think they use real springs instead of the silicone bubbles that modern ones have (someone please correct me if I'm wrong). Anyways, I personally can't stand the amount of noise they create, but I've seen plenty of people swear by them because of the solid feel and durability.

These are "buckling spring" keyboards. The IBM Model M series are by far the best known.

IBM stopped making them long ago, as did other mainstream vendors. ClickyKeyboards sell old IBM stuff, as do some eBay sellers. Unicomp make some Model M clones, as well as some non-buckling spring models.

Noise be damned, they're worth it.

 

[TBSN]

Roguestar: I've used the Ultra-X, but I didn't like it all that much. I think it was too slim.

As far as the "clicky" keyboards, are they really that loud? If so, why do so many people swear by them?
I'm a little concerned about the noise they're supposed to make, is there any compromise between noise and durability in another type of keyboard?

Noise be damned, they're worth it.

Ok, so they're noisy. I can probably live with that. But why are they worth it, over a standard membrane-keyboard?

Thanks...

 

[TBSN]

Another question: Are there any alternatives that might be less than 70 bucks?

 

[dawza]

Buckling spring keyboards are the best thing around for heavy typing, IMO. You get both tactile and auditory feedback, and with a little practice you will find that the effort needed to depress each keystroke is actually less than with membrane (most common standard keyboards) or scissor-switch keyboards (laptop-style). The noise is not terrible, although they certainly are not for environments where silence is needed.

If you want the tactility of a buckling-spring board, with reduced noise, look into a keyboard that uses mechanical switches. The most commonly available are Alps-switch based keyboards- Cherry is the other big manufacturer of mechanical switches. Be careful when purchasing a mechanical-switch keyboard, though, as there are different types of switches, from linear non-tactile to heavy tactile. If it is the "click" you want, stay away from linear mechanical switches.

For IBM Model Ms (buckling spring), you can find new old-stock at clickykeyboards.com for $70 and up, generally. They also sell used Ms for $40 and up- they are more expensive than eBay and other retailers, but they do clean the keyboards for you, which is at least a 2-hour job. Figure an additional $12-15 for shipping in the ConUS.

mcbia.com sells used Model Ms for $30 shipped- you will have to give them a good cleaning, but the keyboard itself will work just fine no matter what.

ebay is another choice for Model Ms, if you know what to look for. You should be able to score a real buckling-spring M for $20-30 shipped. I personally would recommend mcbia, though, as you know you will definitely receive the genuine part.

For Model M remakes, try pckeyboard.com (Unicomp). They are pricey, though, and supposedly the quality of the remake (in terms of the casing) is not quite up to the standards of the original IBM-branded model Ms; the feel of the keys should be identical, though.

For Alps-based mechanical keyboards, the most common are Dell AT-101 models. They can be found on eBay for $10-20 shipped, or from clickykeyboards.com for $30-40.

Finally, there is a tactile mechanical keyboard available from cyberguys.com (http://www.cyberguys.com/templates/searchdetail.asp?productID=14078) that received a pretty decent review (http://www.barrys-rigs-n-reviews.com/reviews/2007/hardware/m10key/m10key.htm). No first-hand experience here, but it sounds promising.

I have several Model Ms and a few of the Dell AT-101s. I personally like the feel of the Model M, as the keystrokes are more solid, which reduces the number of mistakes I make. Furthermore, the springiness of the M helps me type faster, and the keyboard itself is just much more solidly built. There is no comparison whatsoever to a membrane-based keyboard- you actually can feel when each key is depressed, and with a little practice, this allows you to type more efficiently, as the spring buckles about halfway into the keystroke, meaning that you do not have to depress each key fully. This, coupled with the spring action, enhances accuracy, speed, and general typing comfort. For as little as $30 shipped, a used M is very tough to beat.

 

[TBSN]

Ok, it looks like I've got a bunch of options to look at. The Model M certainly looks like a high quality KB, but the only unfortunate thing is that they don't come with USB connectors. I'm not sure if I want to get a PS/2 model, because my next computer will most likely not have a PS/2 connection. I guess that strikes the original IBM and Dell mechanical-switch models off my list.

I looked at the Cherry keyboards, but most of them are meant for industrial applications and it got confusing as to which models had the favorable mechanical-action keys.

The other options are the PC keyboard Model M remakes, which are expensive, but have USB connectors, or the mechanical-switch ione keyboard you linked (http://www.cyberguys.com/templates/searchdetail.asp?ProductID=14078), which is cheaper.

One question: does the ione keyboard that is featured in the review use the Alps-switch type of keys, while the pckeyboard clones use the ModelM-type buckling-spring keys? That would probably explain the difference in prices I guess.

So, as far as I can tell now there are two different USB options for this type of KB:
---The pckeyboard clone, which is ~$70 and uses the same keys as the Model M
---The ione mechanical-switch keyboard, which is ~$55 and uses the alps-switch keys (right?)

out of those, which would you recommend?

Thanks

 

[dawza]

I am a buckling spring fan, so I would have to go with the pckeyboard clone. However, you can purchase a PS2-USB adapter that is guaranteed to work with the Model M from http://www.clickykeyboards.com/index.cf...n/parentcat/11298/subcatid/0/id/124184. I have seen this adapter go for $8-10 at other retailers, so I am sure a little searching will turn up a better price. In that case, you could go with a $30 shipped Model M + $10 adapter and end up with a cheaper setup than either of the two options listed.

Without having any first-hand experience with the cyberguys KB, I cannot say one would be better than the other. The buckling spring design and the mechanical switches are quite different- the former is firmer and springier, while the latter feels more like a standard membrane keystroke save for the tactile/audible "click" that the mechanical switch makes. It all comes down to personal preference- heck, there are people out there who hate buckling springs and prefer their rubber membrane or scissor-switch boards. I am not sure who manufactures the keyswitch for the cyberguys KB.

I have a spare Dell AT-101 that I no longer use- if you want experience the Alps mechanical switch for the cost of shipping, send me a PM. It isn't in the greatest shape cosmetically (the Dells use a plastic that tends to yellow with age), but is 100% solid functionally.

Edit: Here is a link to the same USB-PS/2 adapter for $6.99 + shipping at cyberguys:

http://www.cyberguys.com/templates/searchdetail.asp?productID=4850

Dual version: http://www.cyberguys.com/templates/searchdetail.asp?productID=10134

These are the same models, sold for considerably more at clickykeyboards. Apparently, the Model Ms need an adapter that actively converts the PS/2 signal to USB, as opposed to a passive pass-through converter.

 

[GregMal]

http://www.pckeyboard.com/customizer.html

 

[BurnItDwn]

Das keyboard II is the best.
IBM Model M is the second best.

 

[Oyeve]

Originally posted by: BurnItDwn
Das keyboard II is the best.
IBM Model M is the second best.

QFT! Das Keyboard, man, you can kill someone with that!

 

[TBSN]

Originally posted by: dawza
I am a buckling spring fan, so I would have to go with the pckeyboard clone. However, you can purchase a PS2-USB adapter that is guaranteed to work with the Model M from http://www.clickykeyboards.com/index.cf...n/parentcat/11298/subcatid/0/id/124184. I have seen this adapter go for $8-10 at other retailers, so I am sure a little searching will turn up a better price. In that case, you could go with a $30 shipped Model M + $10 adapter and end up with a cheaper setup than either of the two options listed.

Cool, thanks for letting me know. I actually didn't know that you could get a PS/2 > USB adapter. I'm going to look around some of the old computer junk I've got, I may actually have one of the old Dell mechanical switch KB's to check out. If I like it, I might just get one of those as they are supposed to be quieter.

the Das KB definitely looks cool, but I don't think I'd be able to handle the blank-ness. It would be better if they at least labeled the F1-F10, symbols, etc. But I guess that would defeat the point. Plus, it's $90!

So I'll prob go for the old Model M with an adapter, or still perhaps the pckeyboard one (it would be nice to have a new kb I guess). First I'm going to see if I can find one of those old Dell models I have, and somehow check to see what type it is. Then I can tell whether or not I like the action of the keys.

 

[Synomenon]

Dell's RT7D50 are pretty good. It's a simple USB keyboard with no shortcut buttons, full size keys. You can get them on eBay for not very much:

http://www.etech4sale.com/images/142347_h/huge.jpg

http://search.ebay.com/rt7d50

 

[aCynic2]

Originally posted by: TBSN

Ok, so they're noisy. I can probably live with that. But why are they worth it, over a standard membrane-keyboard?

Thanks...

Because, provided you don't spill a bucket of water on them, they're the most durable keyboards you'll find.

We use these "clicky" keyboards with the mainframe dumb terminal I work on and they must be 10+ years old (at least) and still going strong!

Mind you, we use PCs with host-on-demand for the main part, but before the shop moved to this, we used the old style M keyboards. I freaking love them.

Thanks to Aluvus for the link. I think I'm buying myself a brand new IBM M.

 

[DarkManX4lf]

Not to hijack this thread, but I'm also looking to replace my keyboard but I need a nice keyboard with a usbhub built in...the way my desktop is my mouse has to be plugged into the keyboard or somewhere else close by because it wont reach to the tower...any suggestions?

 

[gus6464]

Wow I guess im weird but i swear by Microsoft Natural Keyboards. I am typing on an 8 year old one right now. I got a new natural ergonomic 4000 one for my gaming pc and I love it too. For some reason I think I type a lot faster on MS Natural's than any other keyboard.

 

[Arcanedeath]

I'll 2nd the ergo 4000 rec. Its the only keyboard I type on now. can't stand non ergo keyboards anymore kills my wrists after a short time.

 

[mercanucaribe]

The problem is almost all keyboards have staggered keys- This serves no purpose and is a leftover from typewriter days. The only truly ergonomic keyboards have "fanned" or straight aligned keys.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v468/...smosis/keyboard_slant.jpg?t=1180314402


Compare to this: http://www.geek.com/hwswrev/smartback_high.jpg

 

[Nathelion]

Originally posted by: aCynic2

Originally posted by: TBSN

Ok, so they're noisy. I can probably live with that. But why are they worth it, over a standard membrane-keyboard?

Thanks...

Because, provided you don't spill a bucket of water on them, they're the most durable keyboards you'll find.

We use these "clicky" keyboards with the mainframe dumb terminal I work on and they must be 10+ years old (at least) and still going strong!

Mind you, we use PCs with host-on-demand for the main part, but before the shop moved to this, we used the old style M keyboards. I freaking love them.

Thanks to Aluvus for the link. I think I'm buying myself a brand new IBM M.

Actually, they will survive fine even if you spill a bucket of water over them. I accidentally spilled a whole glass of coca-cola on a model M at a LAN party, and I just wnet over to a sink, put it upside down and let it drain. 10 minutes later it was good to go, despite the fact that it was still all damp with coca cola. Once i got home I obviously cleaned it out...

 

[iMav]

Originally posted by: dawza
For IBM Model Ms (buckling spring), you can find new old-stock at clickykeyboards.com for $70 and up, generally.

I second the recommendation for clickykeyboards.com. I recently purchased one of MY favorite keyboards from them, a Model M mini (space saver, 84-key). All the greatness of the Model M, minus the useless numpad.