Kerry Says He Believes Life Starts at Conception

Riprorin

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Apr 25, 2000
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Kerry Says He Believes Life Starts at Conception

By Jonathan Finer
Washington Post Staff Writer
Monday, July 5, 2004; Page A06

DYERSVILLE, Iowa, July 4 -- As Sen. John F. Kerry (Mass.) campaigned across Iowa on Sunday with Gov. Tom Vilsack, widely reported to be on Kerry's vice presidential short list, both men dodged repeated questions about whether their joint appearance might be a preview of the Democratic ticket.

But even as he tried to avoid making news Sunday, Kerry broke new ground in an interview that ran in the Dubuque, Iowa, daily, the Telegraph Herald. A Catholic who supports abortion rights and has taken heat recently from some in the church hierarchy for his stance, Kerry told the paper, "I oppose abortion, personally. I don't like abortion. I believe life does begin at conception."

Spokesman Stephanie Cutter said that although Kerry has often said abortion should be "safe, legal and rare," and that his religion shapes that view, she could not recall him ever publicly discussing when life begins.

"I can't take my Catholic belief, my article of faith, and legislate it on a Protestant or a Jew or an atheist," he continued in the interview. "We have separation of church and state in the United States of America." The comments came on the final day of a three-state Midwest swing, during which Kerry has repeatedly sought to dispel stereotypes that could play negatively among voters in the Heartland.

President Bush's campaign said these instances are further evidence of what it says is Kerry's propensity for misleading flip-flops.

"John Kerry's ridiculous claim to hold conservative values and his willingness to change his beliefs to fit his audience betrays a startling lack of conviction on important issues like abortion that will make it difficult for voters to give him their trust," said Steve Schmidt, a Bush campaign spokesman.

On Sunday morning, the day the candidate's abortion comments appeared in the local paper, Kerry sat in a church pew near Vilsack, also a Catholic who supports abortion rights, and his wife, Christie, one of Kerry's earliest backers in Iowa.

Afterward several parishioners asked him about his position on abortion and his vote against a recent bill that would have banned the late-term procedure opponents call "partial birth" abortion, according to a reporter for the Telegraph Herald who sat behind Kerry's pew.

Kerry took communion during Mass, which a few Catholic bishops have publicly said he should not do because of his abortion views.

"I wish he was against abortion, but I don't think that'll get settled," said Helen Willenberg, 83, a Catholic who met Kerry later in the day. "But I still hope he wins."

Later, Kerry and Vilsack walked the same Cascade, Iowa, parade route, shaking hands with voters, but rarely walking alongside each other or conversing publicly.

"Come on up here, Mr. President, we've got room for you," said a man seated on the porch of the Hughes Realty agency, as Kerry hopped over to say hello. There were also scattered Bush signs, some Bush stickers on folks holding Kerry signs and at least one heckler, in a T-shirt that read "W in '04," who yelled, "Kerry go home."

When a reporter asked whether he would be selected as Kerry's running mate, Vilsack shouted, "Here, you want some candy?" and threw goodies at the media.

Asked whether he had decided who would join his ticket, Kerry said, "I made a decision to get a drink and eat some lunch." Afterward the group proceeded to Dyersville for a photo opportunity on the spot where the 1989 Kevin Costner movie "Field of Dreams" was filmed.

Surrounded by a half-dozen Little Leaguers with baseball gloves, Kerry ambled across the diamond into the thigh-high Iowa corn. As the children's heads disappeared, the 6-foot-4 senator ducked out of view, re-creating a scene from the movie, in which long-dead baseball players vanish after a game.

Kerry took a turn at bat, fielded ground balls at second base and pitched to an assortment of kids, and later to his daughter Vanessa, who, along with her sister, Alexandra, joined her father on the campaign trail over the weekend.

At an evening barbecue at a home in Independence, Iowa, Kerry told about 200 supporters how happy he was to be back in the Hawkeye State, where his comeback victory in the Jan. 19 caucuses propelled him to the front of the Democratic pack.

"I was being mentioned on the obituary pages here," he said, half-jokingly, before thanking the group for backing him and asking them to continue their support.

© 2004 The Washington Post Company
 

FelixDeCat

Lifer
Aug 4, 2000
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So does that mean he will support judges that are likely to be prolife? Hmmm....
 

RyanM

Platinum Member
Feb 12, 2001
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"I can't take my Catholic belief, my article of faith, and legislate it on a Protestant or a Jew or an atheist," he continued in the interview."

I'll say Amen to that. As far as I'm concerned, that's the end-all, be-all argument killer when challenged about personally opposing something while simultaneously allowing it to occur.
 

Riprorin

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Apr 25, 2000
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"I can't take my Catholic belief, my article of faith, and legislate it on a Protestant or a Jew or an atheist," he continued in the interview. "We have separation of church and state in the United States of America." The comments came on the final day of a three-state Midwest swing, during which Kerry has repeatedly sought to dispel stereotypes that could play negatively among voters in the Heartland.

Oh, really. Then explain this:

Kerry also uses Catholicism -- that is, a twisted semblance of Catholicism -- to advance his liberal agenda. On abortion, Kerry says that his faith is irrelevant. On left-wing economic issues, however, his liberal understanding of his faith suddenly becomes very public. Kerry says the Pope shouldn't instruct politicians, yet in the 1980s he inserted into the Congressional Record the American Catholic bishops' ill-advised pastoral letter against Reaganomics. Kerry called the quasi-socialist U.S. bishops' pastoral letter on the economy "an important document which should be read by Catholics and non-Catholics alike."

When Kerry sponsored the federal Gay & Lesbian Civil Rights Bill in the 1980s, he noted that the "National Federation of Priests' Councils" supported the "inclusion of the term 'sexual orientation' in existing civil rights laws."

(taken from Kerry?s Dirty Deeds By George Neumayr
Published 3/30/2004)

Who is the liar?
 

conjur

No Lifer
Jun 7, 2001
58,686
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Originally posted by: MachFive
"I can't take my Catholic belief, my article of faith, and legislate it on a Protestant or a Jew or an atheist," he continued in the interview."

I'll say Amen to that. As far as I'm concerned, that's the end-all, be-all argument killer when challenged about personally opposing something while simultaneously allowing it to occur.

Ayup. Something the Bush administration and its supporters should start learning how to do.
 

Riprorin

Banned
Apr 25, 2000
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Originally posted by: conjur
Originally posted by: MachFive
"I can't take my Catholic belief, my article of faith, and legislate it on a Protestant or a Jew or an atheist," he continued in the interview."

I'll say Amen to that. As far as I'm concerned, that's the end-all, be-all argument killer when challenged about personally opposing something while simultaneously allowing it to occur.

Ayup. Something the Bush administration and its supporters should start learning how to do.

"John Kerry's ridiculous claim to hold conservative values and his willingness to change his beliefs to fit his audience betrays a startling lack of conviction on important issues like abortion that will make it difficult for voters to give him their trust".
 

judasmachine

Diamond Member
Sep 15, 2002
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The last issue I consider in a chaotic time such as this is abortion. It's such a stupid thing to argue about, as no one can ever be truly right. We have bigger fish to fry my friends.


Oh and perhaps someone can riddle me this: Why is it that most that are adamantly anti-abortion also pro-war? Once they are out of the womb are they free game?
 

RyanM

Platinum Member
Feb 12, 2001
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Originally posted by: Riprorin
"John Kerry's ridiculous claim to hold conservative values and his willingness to change his beliefs to fit his audience betrays a startling lack of conviction on important issues like abortion that will make it difficult for voters to give him their trust".

I was watching Dogma tonite, and one of Rufus's comments never fails to speak to me.

"Ideas are better than beliefs. You can always change an idea, but it's a lot harder to change a belief."

Perhaps John Kerry has ideas and George Bush has beliefs. Isn't it a sign of the better man when you can admit you're wrong?

Don't read this as an endorsement of Kerry, by any means. I hate them both equally with every ounce of bile in my stomach, just for different reasons.

Originally posted by: judasmachine
The last issue I consider in a chaotic time such as this is abortion. It's such a stupid thing to argue about, as no one can ever be truly right. We have bigger fish to fry my friends.


Oh and perhaps someone can riddle me this: Why is it that most that are adamantly anti-abortion also pro-war? Once they are out of the womb are they free game?

Don't forget the death penalty.
 

Mill

Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
28,558
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Originally posted by: judasmachine
The last issue I consider in a chaotic time such as this is abortion. It's such a stupid thing to argue about, as no one can ever be truly right. We have bigger fish to fry my friends.


Oh and perhaps someone can riddle me this: Why is it that most that are adamantly anti-abortion also pro-war? Once they are out of the womb are they free game?

By the same token -- why are so many anti-war pro-abortion? The difference comes down to partisan and religious beliefs. Some people believe that an unborn child is pure innocence, but can dehumanize Iraqi children getting blown up. Yet again -- some can dehumanize a baby into a fetus and worry more about a child in another country. Who is really right? I'd say no one. To me abortion is bad, but so is killing innocent civilians. I can't see legislating my belief on abortion into law however, just as I can't see the innocent Iraqi lifes being a total indictment of the war. I don't like either happening...
 

sMiLeYz

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Feb 3, 2003
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Originally posted by: judasmachine

Oh and perhaps someone can riddle me this: Why is it that most that are adamantly anti-abortion also pro-war? Once they are out of the womb are they free game?

A better question...

Why are they also pro-death penalty?

"I can't take my Catholic belief, my article of faith, and legislate it on a Protestant or a Jew or an atheist," he continued in the interview."


Me like.:beer:
 

Thegonagle

Diamond Member
Jun 8, 2000
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Originally posted by: Riprorin
"I can't take my Catholic belief, my article of faith, and legislate it on a Protestant or a Jew or an atheist," he continued in the interview. "We have separation of church and state in the United States of America." The comments came on the final day of a three-state Midwest swing, during which Kerry has repeatedly sought to dispel stereotypes that could play negatively among voters in the Heartland.

Oh, really. Then explain this:

Kerry also uses Catholicism -- that is, a twisted semblance of Catholicism -- to advance his liberal agenda. On abortion, Kerry says that his faith is irrelevant. On left-wing economic issues, however, his liberal understanding of his faith suddenly becomes very public. Kerry says the Pope shouldn't instruct politicians, yet in the 1980s he inserted into the Congressional Record the American Catholic bishops' ill-advised pastoral letter against Reaganomics. Kerry called the quasi-socialist U.S. bishops' pastoral letter on the economy "an important document which should be read by Catholics and non-Catholics alike."

When Kerry sponsored the federal Gay & Lesbian Civil Rights Bill in the 1980s, he noted that the "National Federation of Priests' Councils" supported the "inclusion of the term 'sexual orientation' in existing civil rights laws."

(taken from Kerry?s Dirty Deeds By George Neumayr
Published 3/30/2004)

Who is the liar?

Maybe because he considered the letter to be "an important document which should be read by Catholics and non-Catholics alike" first and foremost, and placed it in the Congressional Record. Since you must have that book, can you look in the foot/end-notes and find out who wrote the letter, and in what year? I'd like to search for it and read it.

As for the other thing, I don't even know what the author is talking about. (No context.)

Oh, and why should we be so concerned about Kerry's "dirty deeds" from 16 or more years ago? I'm a lot more concerned about Bush and Company's dirty deeds of the past 3 years. There have been lots of books written about that. There's even a movie out in theaters right now about it.

Let's get real here. We've got a bunch of millionaire buddies in the executive branch that are beginning to look as corrupt as your average third-world dictatorship. Find me a bunch of dirty deeds that Kerry has done that even come close to adding up to crap that can be attributed to the Bush administration, and I'll leave the Presidential election section of my ballot blank this November. (Yeah right!) Furthermore, as the more moral members and staffers of the Bush Administration resign and go off to write tell-all books of their own about their former boss, the people leftover are just getting worse and worse.

I predict that one day, in hell, Bush, Cheney, Ashcroft, and Rove will conspire together over a foursome, and overthrow Satan. I plan not to be there. I mean, there's hell, and then there's hell.
 

HardWarrior

Diamond Member
Jan 26, 2004
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Originally posted by: wiin
Kerry will say anything to win.

So will Bush, or are you still laboring under the idea that there's hair's difference between the two parties?
 

Spamela

Diamond Member
Oct 30, 2000
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it's called "nuance," the same way
Bush can be against abortion,
except in cases of rape, incest, or the health of the mother.
 

Mrpilot007

Senior member
Jan 5, 2003
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It is very simple guys. John Flip-Flop Kerry is personally against it... but politically for it. In other words he can not help but take both sides of yet another issue. :p
 

RyanM

Platinum Member
Feb 12, 2001
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Originally posted by: Mrpilot007
It is very simple guys. John Flip-Flop Kerry is personally against it... but politically for it. In other words he can not help but take both sides of yet another issue. :p

Which I respect his right to.

I'm against drug use but pro decriminilization.
I'd never visit a prostitute but I think the police should not be in the position of enforcing morality.
I'm not gay, but I think gays should have the right to marry.
I don't own any stock, but taxing dividends is ridiculous.
And I'm not rich, but I don't think there should be an estate tax.

See how simple that is?
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
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Lemme get this straight- Kerry's belief that the Constitution and the rights of others supercede his own personal religious beliefs is a flip-flop... that this position is somehow inconsistent with the tolerance-based system laid out in that hallowed document, and with the principles that allow for a diverse culture such as our own...

And that we should replace it with the faith of the true believers, folks who'd march off a cliff in pursuit of their agenda, their mission from God, in which the means justify the ends, every time...
 

Red Dawn

Elite Member
Jun 4, 2001
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Originally posted by: Jhhnn
Lemme get this straight- Kerry's belief that the Constitution and the rights of others supercede his own personal religious beliefs is a flip-flop... that this position is somehow inconsistent with the tolerance-based system laid out in that hallowed document, and with the principles that allow for a diverse culture such as our own...

And that we should replace it with the faith of the true believers, folks who'd march off a cliff in pursuit of their agenda, their mission from God, in which the means justify the ends, every time...
According to religious zealots and fanantics like Ripsnortin they should!
 

Riprorin

Banned
Apr 25, 2000
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Exactly how is this a "separation of church and state" issue"?

Kerry's contention that it is is laughable.

I think that this statement is right on: "John Kerry's ridiculous claim to hold conservative values and his willingness to change his beliefs to fit his audience betrays a startling lack of conviction on important issues like abortion that will make it difficult for voters to give him their trust."

Bush has been taking a beating in the liberal press and he's still ahead in the polls. Kerry's a desperate man.
 

biostud

Lifer
Feb 27, 2003
18,253
4,771
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Originally posted by: Mill

By the same token -- why are so many anti-war pro-abortion? The difference comes down to partisan and religious beliefs. Some people believe that an unborn child is pure innocence, but can dehumanize Iraqi children getting blown up. Yet again -- some can dehumanize a baby into a fetus and worry more about a child in another country. Who is really right? I'd say no one. To me abortion is bad, but so is killing innocent civilians. I can't see legislating my belief on abortion into law however, just as I can't see the innocent Iraqi lifes being a total indictment of the war. I don't like either happening...

The way I see it, I don't think of it as a child the first three months of pregnancy, and in this period of time the woman can choose wether she would like to have a child or not.
 

IndieSnob

Golden Member
Jul 7, 2001
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I see nothing wrong, or flip-flip about this. Bush and his ill-informed fanatics are just pissed because someone finally has the gall to say that just because they have strong beliefs in something, doesn't mean that they can legislate it on someone who doesn't beleive in the same thing. Is this the best the Bush camp can come up with for a flip flop? Again, another reason I won't vote for Bush is that he's such a radical fundementalist that if he could elect the right supreme court he'd lay his version of his religion on all of our rights, and to that I say he can stick it where the sun don't shine.
 

Riprorin

Banned
Apr 25, 2000
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Originally posted by: IndieSnob
I see nothing wrong, or flip-flip about this. Bush and his ill-informed fanatics are just pissed because someone finally has the gall to say that just because they have strong beliefs in something, doesn't mean that they can legislate it on someone who doesn't beleive in the same thing. Is this the best the Bush camp can come up with for a flip flop? Again, another reason I won't vote for Bush is that he's such a radical fundementalist that if he could elect the right supreme court he'd lay his version of his religion on all of our rights, and to that I say he can stick it where the sun don't shine.

It appears that "fanatics" is the liberals word du jour.

Actually, the real fanatics in this country are the ACLU and their supporters who are trying to re-write America's cultural history through their bullying tactics.
 

DealMonkey

Lifer
Nov 25, 2001
13,136
1
0
Originally posted by: Jhhnn
Lemme get this straight- Kerry's belief that the Constitution and the rights of others supercede his own personal religious beliefs is a flip-flop... that this position is somehow inconsistent with the tolerance-based system laid out in that hallowed document, and with the principles that allow for a diverse culture such as our own...

And that we should replace it with the faith of the true believers, folks who'd march off a cliff in pursuit of their agenda, their mission from God, in which the means justify the ends, every time...

:beer:
 

Riprorin

Banned
Apr 25, 2000
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Originally posted by: DealMonkey
Originally posted by: Jhhnn
Lemme get this straight- Kerry's belief that the Constitution and the rights of others supercede his own personal religious beliefs is a flip-flop... that this position is somehow inconsistent with the tolerance-based system laid out in that hallowed document, and with the principles that allow for a diverse culture such as our own...

And that we should replace it with the faith of the true believers, folks who'd march off a cliff in pursuit of their agenda, their mission from God, in which the means justify the ends, every time...

:beer:

You are obviously ignorant of Kerry's shameful use of Catholicism to further his politcal career (sort of like how he used American troops as stepping stones):

Kerry?s Dirty Deeds
By George Neumayr
Published 3/30/2004 12:08:37 AM

John F. Kerry is a more checkered Catholic than the first JFK. Unlike Kennedy who had some residual sense of respect for the Church, Kerry uses his Catholicism as a campaign prop while sabotaging its teachings. The irony of Kerry's Sunday sermon on George Bush's faith -- visiting a Baptist Church Kerry used scripture to suggest Bush has "faith but has no deeds" -- is that the verse describes the spin Kerry usually places on his own religion. He claims the Catholic faith but insists it should not influence his public deeds.

"What good is it, my brothers, if a man claims to have faith but has no deeds?" said Kerry, citing James 2:14. It is a question Kerry has yet to answer: What good is a politician who makes a show of his Catholic faith while casting votes in favor of the abortion of unborn children?

Kerry is an advocate of empty faith. He justifies the blatant contradiction between his Catholicism and his voting record on the grounds that his faith should not drive his deeds.

Kerry rebuked Pope John Paul II last year for urging Catholic politicians to produce public deeds worthy of the moral teachings of their Church. Kerry said he would disregard the Pope's statement. "I believe in the Church and care about it enormously," he said. "But I think that it's important to not have the Church instructing politicians. That is an inappropriate crossing of the line in America. President Kennedy drew that line very clearly in 1960 and I believe we need to stand up for that line today."

Kerry stands up for the "line" between religion and public life, then crosses it himself when he sees a chance to use Catholicism for political purposes. The third line of the biography on his campaign website reads, "John Kerry was raised in the Catholic faith and continues to be an active member of the Catholic Church." On Ash Wednesday Kerry made sure to emerge from a Catholic Church with ash on his head while photographers snapped their cameras. Last week The American Spectator's Washington Prowler reported that Kerry, outfitted outrageously in ski gear, barged into a Catholic Church to receive communion for another photo-op.

Kerry also uses Catholicism -- that is, a twisted semblance of Catholicism -- to advance his liberal agenda. On abortion, Kerry says that his faith is irrelevant. On left-wing economic issues, however, his liberal understanding of his faith suddenly becomes very public. Kerry says the Pope shouldn't instruct politicians, yet in the 1980s he inserted into the Congressional Record the American Catholic bishops' ill-advised pastoral letter against Reaganomics. Kerry called the quasi-socialist U.S. bishops' pastoral letter on the economy "an important document which should be read by Catholics and non-Catholics alike."

When Kerry sponsored the federal Gay & Lesbian Civil Rights Bill in the 1980s, he noted that the "National Federation of Priests' Councils" supported the "inclusion of the term 'sexual orientation' in existing civil rights laws."

Kerry doesn't mind if heretical prelates influence politics. Kerry even urges them to get into politics. Early in his political career Kerry passed up a congressional seat out of deference to Robert Drinan, the Jesuit congressman who supported Roe v. Wade. And then there was Kerry's campaigning for "Father Aristide." In 1994 he helped the defrocked priest return to power in Haiti, calling him "Father Aristide" in an attempt to gin up U.S. sympathy for the Marxist thug. Aristide was no priest -- the Vatican took his collar away after he descended into violent activism -- but that didn't stop Kerry from casting him as a benign "Father."

A product of Jesuit Boston College law school, Kerry absorbed the modern Jesuit enthusiasm for "liberation theology." This is evident in his apologetics work for "Father Aristide." Kerry bitterly accuses Republicans of persecuting Aristide for his "liberation theology." For this reason he rushed to Aristide's defense -- "Father Aristide may not be perfect (what elected leader is?)," he has written -- despite knowing that the cashiered priest is an inciter of "necklacing," the practice of throwing flaming tires around his opponents' heads.

There has been much talk about the dereliction of the Boston archdiocese. But it goes beyond abuse cases. It also shows itself in the relative silence from the chancery about the Kennedys and Kerrys who use their Catholic faith in elections then traduce it after winning them. Boston's Archbishop Sean O'Malley, the highly regarded successor to Cardinal Law, could stop Kerry's charade, and the candidate himself has just given him an opening. The bishop could turn Kerry's questioning of Bush's hollow faith on Kerry.

George Neumayr is managing editor of The American Spectator.
 

DealMonkey

Lifer
Nov 25, 2001
13,136
1
0
Originally posted by: Riprorin
Originally posted by: DealMonkey
Originally posted by: Jhhnn
Lemme get this straight- Kerry's belief that the Constitution and the rights of others supercede his own personal religious beliefs is a flip-flop... that this position is somehow inconsistent with the tolerance-based system laid out in that hallowed document, and with the principles that allow for a diverse culture such as our own...

And that we should replace it with the faith of the true believers, folks who'd march off a cliff in pursuit of their agenda, their mission from God, in which the means justify the ends, every time...
:beer:
You are obviously ignorant of Kerry's shameful use of Catholicism to further his politcal career (sort of like how he used American troops as stepping stones):
You mean just like how Bush uses his Christianity to further his political career? Did you hear about the "get out the vote" efforts being organized between the Bush/Cheney re-election campaign and churches across the country? Hmmmm? Who's a hypocrite now?

Bush campaign wants church lists

WASHINGTON (Reuters) -- President Bush, seeking to mobilize religious conservatives for his reelection campaign, has asked church-going volunteers to turn over church membership directories, campaign officials said on Thursday.

In a move sharply criticized both by religious leaders and civil libertarians, the Bush-Cheney campaign has issued a guide listing about two-dozen "duties" and a series of deadlines for organizing support among conservative church congregations.

A copy of the guide obtained by Reuters directs religious volunteers to send church directories to state campaign committees, identify new churches that can be organized by the Bush campaign and talk to clergy members about holding voter registration drives.

The document, distributed to campaign coordinators across the country earlier this year, also recommends that volunteers distribute voter guides in church and use Sunday service programs for get-out-the-vote drives.

[...]