Kepler Before Xmas

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bunnyfubbles

Lifer
Sep 3, 2001
12,248
3
0
I wonder how this will change going forward now that Killebrew is gone. Is AMD getting back into the "high performance, large die area" gpu arena after years of settling for Nvidia's scraps? Maybe they saw what Maxwell was going to bring to the table and realized that they needed a massive overhaul now while there is still time.
Unless they want to make a drastic change and suddenly really try to challenge nVidia in the GPGPU arena I seriously doubt that would be the case. They've been golden ever since learning from their HD2900 debacle which they rectified with the 3000 series and continued on with ever since. They've never held the single GPU title (except for the period where the 5800s had no competition at all due to Fermi's delay) but they've since been besting nVidia in price/performance, performance/watt, performance/die-size...and I see no reason for them to change. In fact their strategy is slowly working in their favor with multi GPU solutions starting to tilt in favor of AMD when it was nVidia that dominated that arena for so long.



NV40 and r420 were both on 130nm.
I never said R420 was 110, but ATI had the RV370 on 110nm in the first half 2004, and the RV410 and R430 (X800XL) in the latter half of '04, again, before nVidia had any 110nm parts.

nVidia changed their direction. Their were very aggressive with 40nm. AMD announced and sold the first 40nm GPU to the end user it was nVidia which archived the 10 millions mark in january 2010, while AMD sold only ~3,5 millions 40nm products. nVidia had 4 different products on 40nm: Tegra 2 (the first 40nm SoC), MCP89 (the first 40nm chipset), GT21x and Fermi in the first half of 2010.
That doesn't change the fact that AMD beat them to 40nm. You keep mentioning 2010, but AMD was on 40nm in 2009, in fact they were @ 40nm by April of '09 with the 4770, and of course the 5800 launch in September.

Number of units sold doesn't change the fact that AMD had nVidia beat by a mile in the move to 40nm. The GT21x was on 40nm in October of '09, that's after AMD already had their flagship 5800s out and half a year after the 4770.

Maybe nVidia has changed their strategy, but it doesn't change the fact that they have an extensive history of being second place when it comes to pushing a new fabrication process. If nVidia beats AMD to 28nm it will be the first time since I care to remember that they have done so, and even if they do follow up with a similar strategy to how they adopted 40nm, it just reinforces the point that many of us have already speculated in that these first 28nm parts, regardless of red or green, will more than likely be garbage (at least for what most of here care about ;)) low power parts.
 

bunnyfubbles

Lifer
Sep 3, 2001
12,248
3
0
7870 / 7850 specs at the bottom ? Possible ?


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would be amazing if true, essentially better than the 3870 replacing the 2900 as the 7800s seem to be at the very least identical to the 6900s except with less than half the TDP, 7850 could be a strong candidate for the next "8800 GT" if these specs hold up and performance pans out (and of course price is right, say in the $199 or less mark)
 
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Idontcare

Elite Member
Oct 10, 1999
21,110
59
91
Why? Just because it happened once with the HD5000 series? Last I checked Nvidias GT200 was out a week before HD4000 and 8800GTX was out very early compared to HD2000. 6800 Ultra was launched a tad before X800XT PE. Rest of the launches were a bit out of sync.

I don't see anything out of the ordinary here.

It was my poor attempt at humor. Sorry about that.
 

KingstonU

Golden Member
Dec 26, 2006
1,405
16
81
In the article is talks about Windows 8 bringing out DX12 in mid 2012. Does that mean that the 7000 series and 600 series will be out of date just ~6 months after release?

I'm sure that they will still be able to play games fine on DX11/10, and DX12 will take at least a year before we see it show up significantly in games. But for anyone who builds systems to last 3+ years it would be best to wait till HD8000/700GTX generation no?
 

skipsneeky2

Diamond Member
May 21, 2011
5,035
1
71
Hope this is true but i think its a load of horse sh*t myself.

Wouldn't waste to much energy with this one .
 

happy medium

Lifer
Jun 8, 2003
14,387
480
126
once again I will set the record straight............

There will be no ,I repeat NO, desktop next generation cards out this year.

Both companies are focused on mobile 28nm parts first.
 

ArchAngel777

Diamond Member
Dec 24, 2000
5,223
61
91
once again I will set the record straight............

There will be no ,I repeat NO, desktop next generation cards out this year.

Both companies are focused on mobile 28nm parts first.

There you have it folks. We have heard it from the authority.
 

Dribble

Platinum Member
Aug 9, 2005
2,076
611
136
I don't see it happening in the next 5-6 weeks.

+1.

How many TMSC 28nm chips are there out there right now?

Since as the monster nvidia high end desktop card will probably have the single biggest chip TMSC have to make and hence the hardest one to fab I can't see it being one of the first?
 

Arzachel

Senior member
Apr 7, 2011
903
76
91
Has Nvidia actually taped out the higher end Kepler chips? I've only seen seen low end being mentioned.
 

Rifter

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
11,522
751
126
once again I will set the record straight............

There will be no ,I repeat NO, desktop next generation cards out this year.

Both companies are focused on mobile 28nm parts first.

I agree 100%, at absolute best case we "could" see some low end 28nm desktop parts but nothing midrange or high end is going to be on shelves to buy till next year, probably late q1 or q2.
 

Dadofamunky

Platinum Member
Jan 4, 2005
2,184
0
0
Would be awesome. For the first time ever I could use the EVGA StepUp program haha

No kidding. I could do the same thing. Actually that would be the second time I've done that (did it once for a step up from a hideous 6800 Ultra to a 7800, or something like that). Bought evga this time partly because of that - I think that's a great policy and I appreciated it at the time.
 

RussianSensation

Elite Member
Sep 5, 2003
19,458
765
126
There will be no ,I repeat NO, high-end desktop next generation cards sold in high volumes in retail this year.

^ That's what I am going with.

Here is the kicker:

1) Rage, Dragon Age 2, Dirt 3, Witcher 2, Shogun 2, Crysis 2, Battlefield 3 have all launched;

2) SKYRIM & Batman: AC are launching really soon.

So really, if NV or AMD launch in December, they have missed a huge wave of upgraders and pretty much missed the pre-holiday/most of the holiday season sale period. Q1 is usually a historically slow period for PC hardware too.

Now out of those games, a lot of people have already beaten DA2, Crysis 2 and Witcher 2. Rage, Dirt 3 and Batman aren't GPU intensive enough to upgrade for.

That just leaves BF3, which actually runs well if you turn off 4x MSAA, and SKYRIM (with unknown performance demands at this point).

After that, the next wave of GPU-intensive games likely going to be Metro 2034, Tomb Raider or Arma III in Q3 2012....I have my doubts that Max Payne 3 or Mass Effect 3 will *need* GPU upgrades.

If either camp released their 28nm line-up in September or October of this year, they would have made a killing!
 
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nenforcer

Golden Member
Aug 26, 2008
1,771
11
81
In the article is talks about Windows 8 bringing out DX12 in mid 2012. Does that mean that the 7000 series and 600 series will be out of date just ~6 months after release?

I'm sure that they will still be able to play games fine on DX11/10, and DX12 will take at least a year before we see it show up significantly in games. But for anyone who builds systems to last 3+ years it would be best to wait till HD8000/700GTX generation no?

Windows 8 isn't scheduled to be released until what, October 2012 at the earliest? The latest Developer Preview only supports DirectX 11.1 which AFAIK neither nVidia or AMD currently even have drivers / hardware? for (probably in development).

I would suspect that whenever there is a DirectX 12, it will Windows 8+ (possibly back ported to Windows 7 like they backported DirectX 11 to Vista).

I would certainly hope that any 2012 released hardware supports these future initiatives and are not designed around DirectX 11 which is well over a year old now.

The last I heard was that nVidia was planning on releasing a modified GF110 with 2 units disabled and calling it either a GeForce GTX 560 TI V2 or a GTX 565 to sit at the $299 price point just below GTX 570.

They might only do this in response to any Radeon HD 7000 series release by AMD before the Christmas season.
 
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Genx87

Lifer
Apr 8, 2002
41,091
513
126
^ That's what I am going with.

Here is the kicker:

1) Rage, Dragon Age 2, Dirt 3, Witcher 2, Shogun 2, Crysis 2, Battlefield 3 have all launched;

2) SKYRIM & Batman: AC are launching really soon.

So really, if NV or AMD launch in December, they have missed a huge wave of upgraders and pretty much missed the pre-holiday/most of the holiday season sale period. Q1 is usually a historically slow period for PC hardware too.

Now out of those games, a lot of people have already beaten DA2, Crysis 2 and Witcher 2. Rage, Dirt 3 and Batman aren't GPU intensive enough to upgrade for.

That just leaves BF3, which actually runs well if you turn off 4x MSAA, and SKYRIM (with unknown performance demands at this point).

After that, the next wave of GPU-intensive games likely going to be Metro 2034, Tomb Raider or Arma III in Q3 2012....I have my doubts that Max Payne 3 or Mass Effect 3 will *need* GPU upgrades.

If either camp released their 28nm line-up in September or October of this year, they would have made a killing!

The other side of the coin is these games can help flush the channel of excess inventory in preparation for a launch of a new product which is sure to have low supply for a bit.
 

BrightCandle

Diamond Member
Mar 15, 2007
4,762
0
76
There is decent competition between NVidia/ATI. Both companies will release as soon their cards as soon as they can. If the production problem rumors are true then the laptop parts are coming first because only the low power process is ready.

Its been a very long time since 40nm came out and I am looking forward to the improved performance 28nm should bring. I was hoping for a near halving in transistor size, and hence a doubling in the number of transistors and a corresponding doubling in performance. If those stats are right this release could be massively disappointing.