Keep your oil, Hugo Chavez! WTF!!!

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: dexvx

Originally posted by: CPA
Additionally, in a free society, this is nothing but another government handout. Do we start providing people with free or reduced gas for their vehicles, since many have said the prices have become unaffordable?

So how the hell do Republican dominated states, such as the South/Midwest get so many crop subsidies worth billions. Yet the people in the oil-producing state of Alaska don't even get subsidized oil? I mean, come on, $5-7 a gallon of oil?

Originally posted by: Genx87
Am I supposed to be mad some idiot is willing to give away oil well below market prices to people in Alaska as his own people live in poverty?

They live in poverty, if you calculate GDP compared to the USA, but their relative standard is decently high. For instance, a gallon of gas in Venezuela costs somewhere between 10-15 cents per gallon. On average, they are more than self-sufficient and most people do not live in poverty (aka cannot keep warm/shelter/feed themselves). Thats why Chavez is so popular domestically.

You can try to sugar coat it as much as you want. Since he has taken power unemployment has gone up, poverty hasnt moved and has maybe even gotten worse.
Last I checked there isnt a huge demand for heat in VZ either.

All the while he is preaching to them he is their savior while consolidating power and wealth for himself.

Like I said, not my problem, let him give us cheap oil, who is really winning here?

 

[KlokWyze]

Americans are obviously a too proud and noble people to accept help from a lesser/evil nation such as Venezuala.

 

[dexvx]

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: dexvx

Originally posted by: CPA
Additionally, in a free society, this is nothing but another government handout. Do we start providing people with free or reduced gas for their vehicles, since many have said the prices have become unaffordable?

So how the hell do Republican dominated states, such as the South/Midwest get so many crop subsidies worth billions. Yet the people in the oil-producing state of Alaska don't even get subsidized oil? I mean, come on, $5-7 a gallon of oil?

Every citizen of Alaska gets a royalty check for the oil pumped. I believe some of these run into the thousands of dollars per resident.

That I did not know. However, I still think $5-7 per gallon of oil in an oil producing state is quite rediculous. Venezula is an oil producing country (albeit on a larger scale) and their rates are 10-15 cents per gallon.

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: dexvx

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: dexvx

Originally posted by: CPA
Additionally, in a free society, this is nothing but another government handout. Do we start providing people with free or reduced gas for their vehicles, since many have said the prices have become unaffordable?

So how the hell do Republican dominated states, such as the South/Midwest get so many crop subsidies worth billions. Yet the people in the oil-producing state of Alaska don't even get subsidized oil? I mean, come on, $5-7 a gallon of oil?

Every citizen of Alaska gets a royalty check for the oil pumped. I believe some of these run into the thousands of dollars per resident.

That I did not know. However, I still think $5-7 per gallon of oil in an oil producing state is quite rediculous. Venezula is an oil producing country (albeit on a larger scale) and their rates are 10-15 cents per gallon.

afaik this is heating oil, it isnt something you pump out of the ground and use. It is a refined product and I dont believe Alaska has a lot of refining capability. Most of the stuff is shipped stateside and refined in Texas, CA ect ect.

 

[dexvx]

Originally posted by: Genx87
You can try to sugar coat it as much as you want. Since he has taken power unemployment has gone up, poverty hasnt moved and has maybe even gotten worse.
Last I checked there isnt a huge demand for heat in VZ either.

All the while he is preaching to them he is their savior while consolidating power and wealth for himself.

Like I said, not my problem, let him give us cheap oil, who is really winning here?

How am I sugar coating this?

<a target=_blank class=ftalternatingbarlinklarge href="https://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/ve.html">https://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/ve.html</a>

Read the economic stats. Depression in early 2001-2003. Strong recoveries as of late.

The only really bad statistic is Poverty Line: 47%, but the last update for that was in 1998, well before Chavez took power. That hasnt been updated in nearly a decade. However, average life expectacy is approximately 75, and the unemployment rate is 12%. Real GDP growth is at a pretty high 9+%. Not spectacular, but otherwise its on par if not better than most of the neighbors in their region. I'm not going to say its a fabulous place to live, but to say most people are living in the like some people would suggest is a gross over-exaggeration .

I mean, you look at Cuba:

<a target=_blank class=ftalternatingbarlinklarge href="https://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/cu.html">https://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/cu.html</a>

2005 est Unemployment is at 1.9%? Expectancy is 75/80 M/F, some decent hard stats on economy and growth. But here, some Floridan Cubas make it sound as if its some big gestapo.

 

[daniel49]

you never told someone you despised to keep thier Dam* money?
You don't need it?

 

[Genx87]

Heh only bad stat is a 50% poverty rate

It isnt hard to imagine 9% growth rates when you export 2.1 million barrels of oil a day, your economy is 115 billion, and the price of the oil goes up 30% in a year.

Lets not forget the 12+% unemployment rate to go along with that unbelievable poverty rate. 1:2 people live in poverty. Come on Chavez send us more oil please

 

[K1052]

Originally posted by: dexvx

Originally posted by: Genx87
You can try to sugar coat it as much as you want. Since he has taken power unemployment has gone up, poverty hasnt moved and has maybe even gotten worse.
Last I checked there isnt a huge demand for heat in VZ either.

All the while he is preaching to them he is their savior while consolidating power and wealth for himself.

Like I said, not my problem, let him give us cheap oil, who is really winning here?

How am I sugar coating this?

<a target=_blank class=ftalternatingbarlinklarge href="https://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/ve.html"><a target=_blank class=ftalternatingbarlinklarge href="https://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/ve.html">https://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/ve.html</a></a>

Read the economic stats. Depression in early 2001-2003. Strong recoveries as of late.

The only really bad statistic is Poverty Line: 47%, but the last update for that was in 1998, well before Chavez took power. That hasnt been updated in nearly a decade. However, average life expectacy is approximately 75, and the unemployment rate is 12%. Real GDP growth is at a pretty high 9+%. Not spectacular, but otherwise its on par if not better than most of the neighbors in their region. I'm not going to say its a fabulous place to live, but to say most people are living in the like some people would suggest is a gross over-exaggeration .

I mean, you look at Cuba:

<a target=_blank class=ftalternatingbarlinklarge href="https://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/cu.html"><a target=_blank class=ftalternatingbarlinklarge href="https://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/cu.html">https://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/cu.html</a></a>

2005 est Unemployment is at 1.9%? Expectancy is 75/80 M/F, some decent hard stats on economy and growth. But here, some Floridan Cubas make it sound as if its some big gestapo.

If Cuba is so great why are it's citizens strapping 2x4s to empty oil drums and trying to paddle to the US across 90+ miles of ocean?

 

[ayabe]

Originally posted by: K1052

Originally posted by: dexvx

Originally posted by: Genx87
You can try to sugar coat it as much as you want. Since he has taken power unemployment has gone up, poverty hasnt moved and has maybe even gotten worse.
Last I checked there isnt a huge demand for heat in VZ either.

All the while he is preaching to them he is their savior while consolidating power and wealth for himself.

Like I said, not my problem, let him give us cheap oil, who is really winning here?

How am I sugar coating this?

<a target=_blank class=ftalternatingbarlinklarge href="https://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/ve.html"><a target=_blank class=ftalternatingbarlinklarge href="https://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/ve.html"><a target=_blank class=ftalternatingbarlinklarge href="https://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/ve.html">https://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/ve.html</a></a></a>

Read the economic stats. Depression in early 2001-2003. Strong recoveries as of late.

The only really bad statistic is Poverty Line: 47%, but the last update for that was in 1998, well before Chavez took power. That hasnt been updated in nearly a decade. However, average life expectacy is approximately 75, and the unemployment rate is 12%. Real GDP growth is at a pretty high 9+%. Not spectacular, but otherwise its on par if not better than most of the neighbors in their region. I'm not going to say its a fabulous place to live, but to say most people are living in the like some people would suggest is a gross over-exaggeration .

I mean, you look at Cuba:

<a target=_blank class=ftalternatingbarlinklarge href="https://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/cu.html"><a target=_blank class=ftalternatingbarlinklarge href="https://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/cu.html"><a target=_blank class=ftalternatingbarlinklarge href="https://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/cu.html">https://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/cu.html</a></a></a>

2005 est Unemployment is at 1.9%? Expectancy is 75/80 M/F, some decent hard stats on economy and growth. But here, some Floridan Cubas make it sound as if its some big gestapo.

If Cuba is so great why are it's citizens strapping 2x4s to empty oil drums and trying to paddle to the US across 90+ miles of ocean?

Because they get to run their own semi-autonomous state in Miami.

 

[K1052]

Originally posted by: ayabe

Originally posted by: K1052

Originally posted by: dexvx

Originally posted by: Genx87
You can try to sugar coat it as much as you want. Since he has taken power unemployment has gone up, poverty hasnt moved and has maybe even gotten worse.
Last I checked there isnt a huge demand for heat in VZ either.

All the while he is preaching to them he is their savior while consolidating power and wealth for himself.

Like I said, not my problem, let him give us cheap oil, who is really winning here?

How am I sugar coating this?

<a target=_blank class=ftalternatingbarlinklarge href="https://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/ve.html"><a target=_blank class=ftalternatingbarlinklarge href="https://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/ve.html"><a target=_blank class=ftalternatingbarlinklarge href="https://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/ve.html"><a target=_blank class=ftalternatingbarlinklarge href="https://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/ve.html">https://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/ve.html</a></a></a></a>

Read the economic stats. Depression in early 2001-2003. Strong recoveries as of late.

The only really bad statistic is Poverty Line: 47%, but the last update for that was in 1998, well before Chavez took power. That hasnt been updated in nearly a decade. However, average life expectacy is approximately 75, and the unemployment rate is 12%. Real GDP growth is at a pretty high 9+%. Not spectacular, but otherwise its on par if not better than most of the neighbors in their region. I'm not going to say its a fabulous place to live, but to say most people are living in the like some people would suggest is a gross over-exaggeration .

I mean, you look at Cuba:

<a target=_blank class=ftalternatingbarlinklarge href="https://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/cu.html"><a target=_blank class=ftalternatingbarlinklarge href="https://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/cu.html"><a target=_blank class=ftalternatingbarlinklarge href="https://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/cu.html"><a target=_blank class=ftalternatingbarlinklarge href="https://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/cu.html">https://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/cu.html</a></a></a></a>

2005 est Unemployment is at 1.9%? Expectancy is 75/80 M/F, some decent hard stats on economy and growth. But here, some Floridan Cubas make it sound as if its some big gestapo.

If Cuba is so great why are it's citizens strapping 2x4s to empty oil drums and trying to paddle to the US across 90+ miles of ocean?

Because they get to run their own semi-autonomous state in Miami.

touché

 

[Whoozyerdaddy]

Originally posted by: dexvx

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: dexvx

Originally posted by: CPA
Additionally, in a free society, this is nothing but another government handout. Do we start providing people with free or reduced gas for their vehicles, since many have said the prices have become unaffordable?

So how the hell do Republican dominated states, such as the South/Midwest get so many crop subsidies worth billions. Yet the people in the oil-producing state of Alaska don't even get subsidized oil? I mean, come on, $5-7 a gallon of oil?

Every citizen of Alaska gets a royalty check for the oil pumped. I believe some of these run into the thousands of dollars per resident.

That I did not know. However, I still think $5-7 per gallon of oil in an oil producing state is quite rediculous. Venezula is an oil producing country (albeit on a larger scale) and their rates are 10-15 cents per gallon.

The misinformation is getting out of control here...

1. The PFD this year was $1106. In 25 years the PFD has paid out a little more than $25,000 to citizens who have cashed every check (like me). So it averages a little more than $1000 a year. The largest check ever was a little under $2000. Some checks have been in the $300 range.

2. On my last fill-up (10 days ago), heating oil was $2.74 a gallon. Not $5-7 a gallon.

3. Venezuela owns the company that pumps the oil there. They can do whatever they want with it. Alaska does not own BP, Philips or any other oil producing company. So what THEY do with the oil is THEIR business. The taxes derived from oil production in Alaska fund our government and then some. The net result is no state income tax and the PFD. When I add both of them up I know it more than pays for my heating oil.

Link to PFD pay-outs

 

[CPA]

Originally posted by: dahunan

Originally posted by: Whoozyerdaddy
Funny how this was never a problem until Chavez started throwing free oil around.

How can Alaskan Oil Companies justify these prices they charge to the people of Alaska..

This is sarcasm correct?

You know that up until last year, ALL residents of Alaska received an annual stipend from the oil revenues produced in that state. Most folks received in the thousands of dollars.


edit: should have kept reading, looks like my point was already brought up and responded to.

 

[theeedude]

Citgo gas is the next French fry.

 

[Whoozyerdaddy]

Originally posted by: CPA

Originally posted by: dahunan

Originally posted by: Whoozyerdaddy
Funny how this was never a problem until Chavez started throwing free oil around.

How can Alaskan Oil Companies justify these prices they charge to the people of Alaska..

This is sarcasm correct?

You know that up until last year, ALL residents of Alaska received an annual stipend from the oil revenues produced in that state. Most folks received in the thousands of dollars.

One more time...

Originally posted by: Whoozyerdaddy
The misinformation is getting out of control here...

1. The PFD this year was $1106. In 25 years the PFD has paid out a little more than $25,000 to citizens who have cashed every check (like me). So it averages a little more than $1000 a year. The largest check ever was a little under $2000. Some checks have been in the $300 range.

2. On my last fill-up (10 days ago), heating oil was $2.74 a gallon. Not $5-7 a gallon.

3. Venezuela owns the company that pumps the oil there. They can do whatever they want with it. Alaska does not own BP, Philips or any other oil producing company. So what THEY do with the oil is THEIR business. The taxes derived from oil production in Alaska fund our government and then some. The net result is no state income tax and the PFD. When I add both of them up I know it more than pays for my heating oil.

Link to PFD pay-outs

 

[CPA]

Originally posted by: BaliBabyDoc

Originally posted by: CPA
First off, there are plenty of local and federal assistance programs for electricity and natural gas. That said, Chavez readily admits that he pushes these very, very low cost programs to feed public dissent of American politics.

Additionally, in a free society, this is nothing but another government handout. Do we start providing people with free or reduced gas for their vehicles, since many have said the prices have become unaffordable?

1) Fuel/energy assistance programs have kept pace with neither inflation nor demand.

2) You cannot feed something that isn't hungry. Anyone that's unsatisfied with the current cost/burden of energy prices doesn't need Hurricane Hugo to remind them of it. IIRC, most polling shows general discontent with energy prices.

3) Alaska already has a government handout program funded by oil revenue.

4) The US government has always subsidized gasoline by not extracting through taxes the full cost of building roads, defending access in the Gulf countries, and toll on the environment.

I'm just as disgruntled about gas/heating/electric costs as the next person, but the last thing I want is the government to subsidize every damn thing in my life. Because with subsidation or price regulation, comes control, or in other terms, less freedom.

 

[CPA]

Originally posted by: Whoozyerdaddy

Originally posted by: CPA

Originally posted by: dahunan

Originally posted by: Whoozyerdaddy
Funny how this was never a problem until Chavez started throwing free oil around.

How can Alaskan Oil Companies justify these prices they charge to the people of Alaska..

This is sarcasm correct?

You know that up until last year, ALL residents of Alaska received an annual stipend from the oil revenues produced in that state. Most folks received in the thousands of dollars.

One more time...

Originally posted by: Whoozyerdaddy
The misinformation is getting out of control here...

1. The PFD this year was $1106. In 25 years the PFD has paid out a little more than $25,000 to citizens who have cashed every check (like me). So it averages a little more than $1000 a year. The largest check ever was a little under $2000. Some checks have been in the $300 range.

2. On my last fill-up (10 days ago), heating oil was $2.74 a gallon. Not $5-7 a gallon.

3. Venezuela owns the company that pumps the oil there. They can do whatever they want with it. Alaska does not own BP, Philips or any other oil producing company. So what THEY do with the oil is THEIR business. The taxes derived from oil production in Alaska fund our government and then some. The net result is no state income tax and the PFD. When I add both of them up I know it more than pays for my heating oil.

Link to PFD pay-outs

My estimation came from me recollection of another board member's post a couple years ago spouting his check of over $2K. That's my recollection, so I could be wrong.

edit: just read the PDF, I was wrong, close, but wrong. Damn memory.

 

[Wheezer]

is it just me or are we talking about natives i.e. Eskimos? I mean that is the subject right?

The same people who have existed in this wilderness for what? Hundreds of years? aaaaand have complained how many times about the cost of heat?

I kinda find it funny, that Chavez calls the president the devil, and those agreed also feel the president is the devil. don't you realize that these people would not accept, nor do they want your help either? In thier eyes, you are no better than Chavez.

You never cared last year when the cost of heating oil was through the roof, where were your cries of outrage last year? or the year before that? or the year before that?

If I recall, we has cold winters during Clinton and these people populated this area then, did anyone ask why the Clinton administration did not offer the same free heating oil?

No? why is that? Because it was no more of a concern then than it is now and the ONLY reason it is a concern now is because Chavez made and offer and had his face spit in.

Many of you look upon Chavez as some sort of hero for coming to this country and calling Bush the devil.

Had he not done that or even if he had and not offered these people free heating oil, these people and the fact that they are allllllllll they way up in Alaska freezing thier asses off as they have done for many, many years and made it just fine would not even be a second thought.

 

[BaliBabyDoc]

Originally posted by: CPA

Originally posted by: BaliBabyDoc

Originally posted by: CPA
First off, there are plenty of local and federal assistance programs for electricity and natural gas. That said, Chavez readily admits that he pushes these very, very low cost programs to feed public dissent of American politics.

Additionally, in a free society, this is nothing but another government handout. Do we start providing people with free or reduced gas for their vehicles, since many have said the prices have become unaffordable?

1) Fuel/energy assistance programs have kept pace with neither inflation nor demand.

2) You cannot feed something that isn't hungry. Anyone that's unsatisfied with the current cost/burden of energy prices doesn't need Hurricane Hugo to remind them of it. IIRC, most polling shows general discontent with energy prices.

3) Alaska already has a government handout program funded by oil revenue.

4) The US government has always subsidized gasoline by not extracting through taxes the full cost of building roads, defending access in the Gulf countries, and toll on the environment.

I'm just as disgruntled about gas/heating/electric costs as the next person, but the last thing I want is the government to subsidize every damn thing in my life. Because with subsidation or price regulation, comes control, or in other terms, less freedom.

I'm not sure we are in total disagreement. My point is that it makes sense to provide subsidies to prevent people from freezing the death during winter. Granted, my personal bias would be to give people a lump sum and tell them to friggin' move south.

To the contrary, it makes little sense to subsidize gasoline, platinum-level healthcare, jumbo mortgages, etc.

 

[imported_Tango]

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: dexvx

Originally posted by: CPA
Additionally, in a free society, this is nothing but another government handout. Do we start providing people with free or reduced gas for their vehicles, since many have said the prices have become unaffordable?

So how the hell do Republican dominated states, such as the South/Midwest get so many crop subsidies worth billions. Yet the people in the oil-producing state of Alaska don't even get subsidized oil? I mean, come on, $5-7 a gallon of oil?

Originally posted by: Genx87
Am I supposed to be mad some idiot is willing to give away oil well below market prices to people in Alaska as his own people live in poverty?

They live in poverty, if you calculate GDP compared to the USA, but their relative standard is decently high. For instance, a gallon of gas in Venezuela costs somewhere between 10-15 cents per gallon. On average, they are more than self-sufficient and most people do not live in poverty (aka cannot keep warm/shelter/feed themselves). Thats why Chavez is so popular domestically.

You can try to sugar coat it as much as you want. Since he has taken power unemployment has gone up, poverty hasnt moved and has maybe even gotten worse.
Last I checked there isnt a huge demand for heat in VZ either.

No and no.



http://www.latin-focus.com/latinfocus/countries/venezuela/vengdp.htm

http://www.latin-focus.com/latinfocus/countries/venezuela/venindus.htm

http://www.latin-focus.com/latinfocus/countries/venezuela/venunemp.htm

Quote:

Also:

The economy grew by a remarkable 16.8% in 2004 when compared to 2003, led mostly by non-petroleum sectors - the oil industry directly provides only a small percentage of employment in the country. International reserves grew to US$27 billion. Polling firm Datanalysis noted that real income in the poorest sectors of society grew by 33% in real growth in 2004.

Top performers in the region this year (2006) are expected to be Argentina, with real GDP growth of 7.3%, and Venezuela's 6%. However, the IMF expects growth in both countries to slow in 2007, with Argentina's GDP expanding 4% and Venezuela's 3%.

Stock Market:

http://www.latin-focus.com/latinfocus/countries/venezuela/venstock.htm

http://www.latin-focus.com/latinfocus/countries/venezuela/venstocks.htm

Bond spread closing:

http://www.latin-focus.com/latinfocus/countries/venezuela/venembisprd.htm

Trade balance:

http://www.latin-focus.com/latinfocus/countries/venezuela/ventrade.htm


Positive Current Account... Declining Debt... Unemployment has been steadily dropping, reaching 10.1% in April 2006. In 2005 the government's index of social wellbeing reached its highest level in 10 years. Incomes of the poor doubled in the past two years. The poverty rate, which had been increasing for most of the past twenty-five years, has been dropping. In fact, the World Bank recently noted that "Venezuela has achieved substantial improvements in the fight against poverty."

No matter the fact that I personally dislike his character, data talks clearly.

 

[Whoozyerdaddy]

Originally posted by: BaliBabyDoc
My point is that it makes sense to provide subsidies to prevent people from freezing the death during winter. Granted, my personal bias would be to give people a lump sum and tell them to friggin' move south.

To the contrary, it makes little sense to subsidize gasoline, platinum-level healthcare, jumbo mortgages, etc.

Except in the case of Alaska... Nobody freezes to death unless they pass out drunk in a snowbank or wander (usually drunk) over thin ice. (Are you spotting the trend here?) Like I said earlier... in so many words... Heating villiage homes in Alaska was never an issue until Chavez made headlines by offering free oil.

This whole thread is a giant non-issue.

 

[BaliBabyDoc]

Originally posted by: Whoozyerdaddy

Originally posted by: BaliBabyDoc
My point is that it makes sense to provide subsidies to prevent people from freezing the death during winter. Granted, my personal bias would be to give people a lump sum and tell them to friggin' move south.

To the contrary, it makes little sense to subsidize gasoline, platinum-level healthcare, jumbo mortgages, etc.

Except in the case of Alaska... Nobody freezes to death unless they pass out drunk in a snowbank or wander (usually drunk) over thin ice. (Are you spotting the trend here?) Like I said earlier... in so many words... Heating villiage homes in Alaska was never an issue until Chavez made headlines by offering free oil.

This whole thread is a giant non-issue.

OK . . . I see what you are cooking with . . . fair enough. But it's hard to believe that Alaskans are totally insulated from the energy inflation of 2004-2006.