Kaveri, Gaming and Synergies.

[frozentundra123456]

Yeah, if it runs GDDR5 and stomps comparably priced Intel chips into the dust on $ to $ gaming quality and additively HSA system integrates the 8xxx GPUs.

Say a $150 Kaveri APU and matching $150 fully additive GPU that provides a very high quality gaming experience on AAA next gen games that requires a $300 Intel CPU and $300 Nvidia GPU to hit that same quality. Such a scenario would massively change the gaming landscape in a matter of months.

It's a dead certainty that's what AMD is shooting for, if not with Kaveri/8xxx, then definitely the 2014 road mapped system integration features with Kaveri 2.0/9xxx. We'll find out in Q4 how how many synergies AMD was able to effectively harness to push Kaveri/8xxx toward that goal.

I'm positing Kaveri/8xxx has a lot more potential to radically change the gaming hardware landscape than most realize.

I think all the AAA develops are getting onboard AMD's Gaming Evolved train because, in addition to the console wins, they've seen the Kaveri/8xxx PDFs and know what Kaveri/8xxx (and their successors) are bringing to the table and know where PC gaming is headed.

Every football team shoots for the super bowl too, but most dont make it. Your post is just pure speculation. As far a Gaming Evolved, isnt that mostly related to gpu? For instance Shogun total war shows a gaming evolved screen followed by an "optimized for core" screen for intel cpu. "Gaming Evolved" isnt magic that suddenly transforms a HD7750 level APU into even a mid level gaming platform. You can posit anything you want, until you show benchmarks from a reliable source it means nothing.

 

[Enigmoid]

It wouldn't be stupid if AMD was eating Intel's face in gaming CPU market share. And if Kaveri has full additive GPU capability across the 8xxx cards (as rumored) that face eating would extend across Nvidia's line of GPUs. Kicking those 500+ CU's into the gutter just to have the Nvidia name in your computer is a higher price than most gamers will be willing to pay.

There is no way a 7750 class igpp is going to compete against a 7950 or 670 period HSA or not. You won't even be able to compete with a 7850. AMD would have to pretty much triple their cpu scales to go over 50% marketshare.

Kaveri will be better than trinity but to make these claims when it hasn't been released is foolish. HSA only matters if it gets support.

Please tell me why amd would want to sell a 7750 class igp and cpu for less than they would make shipping the two apart? They are not going to cannabalize their own gpus to sell their cpus.

7750 is a weak card anyway. By the time kaveri releases it will be even weaker.

 

[erunion]

It wouldn't be stupid if AMD was eating Intel's face...

I beg to differ

 

[beginner99]

Oh boy, AMD Fan-boys just don't seem to get it. The iGPU in the long run is not meant for gaming or anything graphics intensive and it is never meant to replace real, dedicated, powerful GPUs. It is meant a a co-processor that can dramatically speed up certain calculations and obviously don't render a game at the same time without a major FPS impact.

The only reason it is marketed for gaming is because the completely oversized iGPU can't be used for anything else than graphics (ignoring the few niche cases). For soemone how doesn't play 3D games, intel HD 2000 is enough, hell no, even the ultra crappy on board video from intel of several years ago.

For someone how does game a $100 dedicated GPU will destroy any iGPU. And don't come with cost. If you can't afford a meager $100, you should probably be thinking about getting a job instead of playing video games... /rant

 

[Dark Shroud]

There is no way a 7750 class igpp is going to compete against a 7950 or 670 period HSA or not. You won't even be able to compete with a 7850. AMD would have to pretty much triple their cpu scales to go over 50% marketshare.

Kaveri will be better than trinity but to make these claims when it hasn't been released is foolish. HSA only matters if it gets support.

Please tell me why amd would want to sell a 7750 class igp and cpu for less than they would make shipping the two apart? They are not going to cannibalize their own gpus to sell their cpus.

7750 is a weak card anyway. By the time kaveri releases it will be even weaker.

Because CPUs make more money than GPUs. Eventually that IGP is going to get dated and a discrete card will be needed. Good thing they crossfire.

People buy more GPUs than CPUs so this wouldn't be a conflict or cannibalizing one product in favor of another.

 

[VulgarDisplay]

I haven't bought an AMD cpu in years, but if they get an APU with GDDR5 paired together I will buy one just to play around with it. Would be simply amazing for a HTPC running games at 720p on the big screen would be a breeze.

 

[Enigmoid]

Because CPUs make more money than GPUs. Eventually that IGP is going to get dated and a discrete card will be needed. Good thing they crossfire.

People buy more GPUs than CPUs so this wouldn't be a conflict or cannibalizing one product in favor of another.

No, If they bought an equivalently performing discrete gpu then they would also need to upgrade it.

People buy MUCH MUCH more cpus than gpus. Every system has a cpu but MANY do not have a gpu (look at OEM systems, practically every single one is using the igp and MOST people don't have a discrete gpu because they have no need).

 

[lagokc]

It wouldn't be stupid if AMD was eating Intel's face in gaming CPU market share. And if Kaveri has full additive GPU capability across the 8xxx cards (as rumored) that face eating would extend across Nvidia's line of GPUs. Kicking those 500+ CU's into the gutter just to have the Nvidia name in your computer is a higher price than most gamers will be willing to pay.

Asymetrical Crossfire will never be that effecient.

 

[Arkadrel]

Asymetrical Crossfire will never be that effecient.

^ Im sure someone at AMD is working hard, at makeing just that happend.

So when you pair a AMD GPU with a AMD APU, they beat out Intel parts.

A 7750 level APU IGP + discrete level GPU ~7750 crossfired...
would be alot of performance, for casual users.


7750 crossfire'ed reach about Nvidia 470 / AMD 5870 levels of performance.

 

[R0H1T]

Oh boy, AMD Fan-boys just don't seem to get it. The iGPU in the long run is not meant for gaming or anything graphics intensive and it is never meant to replace real, dedicated, powerful GPUs. It is meant a a co-processor that can dramatically speed up certain calculations and obviously don't render a game at the same time without a major FPS impact.

The only reason it is marketed for gaming is because the completely oversized iGPU can't be used for anything else than graphics (ignoring the few niche cases). For soemone how doesn't play 3D games, intel HD 2000 is enough, hell no, even the ultra crappy on board video from intel of several years ago.

For someone how does game a $100 dedicated GPU will destroy any iGPU. And don't come with cost. If you can't afford a meager $100, you should probably be thinking about getting a job instead of playing video games... /rant

Yet another non-AMD fan

The only segment growing in the desktop/notebook x86 market is probably the one with IGP's & the higher end enthusiast market is shrinking vapidly, likewise on the GPU front, btw if it weren't for the OEM's screwing AMD over(yeah like how mobile A10 is only sold alongside a dGPU :hmm & more than half of the general populace being unaware of trinity you'd see alot more "design wins" & retail products from AMD !

 

[sontin]

Huh? The only x86 markets which are growing are low-end (Atom, Kabini etc.) and the gaming sector.

Everything between them will shrink in the feature.

 

[Idontcare]

Asymetrical Crossfire will never be that effecient.

^ Im sure someone at AMD is working hard, at makeing just that happend.

So when you pair a AMD GPU with a AMD APU, they beat out Intel parts.

A 7750 level APU IGP + discrete level GPU ~7750 crossfired...
would be alot of performance, for casual users.


7750 crossfire'ed reach about Nvidia 470 / AMD 5870 levels of performance.

If the opportunity for more efficiency is there then I would except Lucidlogix Virtu to be far more effective and popular since they are trying to develop the most efficient heterogeneous crossfire/sli package.

 

[R0H1T]

Huh? The only x86 markets which are growing are low-end (Atom, Kabini etc.) and the gaming sector.

Everything between them will shrink in the feature.

In case you haven't noticed its a relatively new(er) market segment akin to APU & as you rightly said the low power segment is gaining market share but so is the mid range where all the IGP's are & guess what they're cannibalizing right now ? Not so hard to figure it out you know & the same logic applies to the dGPU market where the top end is being eroded by mid/low level offerings.

 

[sontin]

In case you haven't noticed its a relatively new(er) market segment akin to APU & as you rightly said the low power segment is gaining market share but so is the mid range where all the IGP's are & guess what they're cannibalizing right now ? Not so hard to figure it out you know & the same logic applies to the dGPU market where the top end is being eroded by mid/low level offerings.

Nobody cares about APUs. There is no reason for people to switch to them because they bring nothing new to the table.

Really, the reason why people upgrade their or buy new pcs is because of performance. APUs don't have more performance. AMD's CPU performance is on par with a C2D or "C2Q" processor which speed level nearly everyone has. The GPU performance is around a 8800GT - 5 1/2 years old...

 

[R0H1T]

Nobody cares about APUs. There is no reason for people to switch to them because they bring nothing new to the table.

Who says they don't ? From where I'm from people do care about IGP whether it be on a notebook or a desktop & we're talking about a population the size of ~1.3 billion so don't tell me that you're more right than me !

Really, the reason why people upgrade their or buy new pcs is because of performance. APUs don't have more performance. AMD's CPU performance is on par with a C2D or "C2Q" processor which speed level nearly everyone has. The GPU performance is around a 8800GT - 5 1/2 years old...

Are you intentionally trying to deceive people here & btw what did that 8800GT drink for power ~
http://anandtech.com/bench/Product/675?vs=54

 

[sontin]

I don't believe that people care for IGP. They care for more performance. Here in germany i need to pay at least 105€ for the fastest Trinity processor.
For 10€ less i can buy a GTX650 or 7750 and get 50%+ more gpu performance.

And CPU performance is a no brainer because even AMD offered the same speed with their Athlon/Phenom line years before Trinity.

 

[R0H1T]

I don't believe that people care for IGP. They care for more performance. Here in germany i need to pay at least 105€ for the fastest Trinity processor.
For 10€ less i can buy a GTX650 or 7750 and get 50%+ more gpu performance.

Again that goes for most of the western world but people in the emerging markets & likewise most in South Asia don't want the hassle of a separate component(dGPU) so if you don't believe what I'm saying then there's no point discussing this any further !

And CPU performance is a no brainer because even AMD offered the same speed with their Athlon/Phenom line years before Trinity.

That was because they were real quad cores & not modules like with bulldozer/piledriver btw I'd call this pretty even if not fantastic considering the GPU performance in there !

 

[insertcarehere]

In case you haven't noticed its a relatively new(er) market segment akin to APU & as you rightly said the low power segment is gaining market share but so is the mid range where all the IGP's are & guess what they're cannibalizing right now ?

As far as I can tell from all the laptops I see on sale, all of AMD's mobile discrete gpu lineup

 

[R0H1T]

As far as I can tell from all the laptops I see on sale, all of AMD's mobile discrete gpu lineup

Sorry but I'm not following you, what's the point you're trying to make ?

 

[Arkadrel]

If every GCN discrete GPU could benefit from the extra graphics cores in the APU,
via some form of Crossfire, then people would care.

 

[AtenRa]

I don't believe that people care for IGP. They care for more performance. Here in germany i need to pay at least 105€ for the fastest Trinity processor.
For 10€ less i can buy a GTX650 or 7750 and get 50%+ more gpu performance.

And you need another 100€ or more for the CPU. APUs are not only for gaming, they can use the iGPU for compute. It is why Intel keeps investing money and die space in iGPU every year.

And CPU performance is a no brainer because even AMD offered the same speed with their Athlon/Phenom line years before Trinity.

Intel have also offered more performance than Core i3 years ago, what that has to do with the fact that Trinity and Core i3 are in a different category than Phenom II and Core i5/7 ??

 

[AtenRa]

If every GCN discrete GPU could benefit from the extra graphics cores in the APU,
via some form of Crossfire, then people would care.

People will start to care when they will realize that an APU will be faster than the fastest Desktop CPU in real world applications. When more applications will use the APUs iGPU then people will see whats going on. As of now the majority only sees them for gaming.

That's going to change very soon.

 

[lagokc]

If every GCN discrete GPU could benefit from the extra graphics cores in the APU,
via some form of Crossfire, then people would care.

I agree, if every GCN GPU gained frame stuttering from being pared with an AMD APU people would certainly care.

 

[beginner99]

Yet another non-AMD fan

The only segment growing in the desktop/notebook x86 market is probably the one with IGP's & the higher end enthusiast market is shrinking vapidly, likewise on the GPU front, btw if it weren't for the OEM's screwing AMD over(yeah like how mobile A10 is only sold alongside a dGPU :hmm & more than half of the general populace being unaware of trinity you'd see alot more "design wins" & retail products from AMD !

The thing is those people that buy laptops with an iGPU are fine with a Intel HD 2000 or worse. Using facebook, email and word doesn't require any special GPU at all. The best APUs are actually fairly expensive, about the same as an i3 with dedicated. They get better battery life but worse performance.

Yes, AMD has a bad brand name. Actually here it's better for them. i guess 99% of people here would have no clue if i asked them what a company called AMD produces.

 

[frozentundra123456]

People will start to care when they will realize that an APU will be faster than the fastest Desktop CPU in real world applications. When more applications will use the APUs iGPU then people will see whats going on. As of now the majority only sees them for gaming.

That's going to change very soon.

They only see them for gaming, because HSA is still a dream of amd supporters. The CPU performance is not there. For the vast majority of users any igp is more than enough, while those that want strong graphics performance will get a discrete card anyway.