Kaveri, Gaming and Synergies.

[psoomah]

AMD wants to own x86 gaming across the boards. A logical synergy would be to introduce a line of killer gaming APUs concurrent with the console releases that excel on next gen games. The likeliest reason for Richland is as a stopgap APU while AMD takes some extra time to tweak Kaveri into a 400lb gaming gorilla.

AMD was perfectly positioned to rework and optimize Kaveri into an optimized gaming APU concurrent with and mindful of the finalized console architectures. Hardware, middleware, HSA/HSAIL, toolsets, game engines ... AMD is deeply involved with all aspects of next gen gaming and necessarily working with all the developers and publishers.

Why do all the current and upcoming AAA games carry the Gaming Evolved logo? - What happens if Kaveri totally blows intel out of the water on next gen games? A while back an AMD PDF showed up (rapidly pulled by AMD) that showed Kaveri with some 2014 roadmap system integration element features including context switching and extending to discrete graphics. That would make for a fully HSA capable APU + GPU system. That would make 8xxx cards fully additive to Kaveri APUs providing a gaming/value proposition neither Intel or Nvidia could hope to match. A Year from now could see AMD Kaveri as the overwhelming choice for PC gamers and AMD discrete GPUs the logical partner for those APUs.

A similar dynamic would also apply to the x86 laptop and tablet markets with Temash and Kabini.

AMD is ideally positioned to assist and urge developers to provide optimized code in their games for Kaveri/8xxx GPU combos which the developers are already doing for the consoles and in return game developers get to put a far higher quality gaming experience into the hands of entry level, budget and mid level PC buyers which will grow the AAA gaming market and increase game sales. What do the developers care if AMD takes market share from Intel AND Nvidia in the process? Kaveri would be the ideal PC hardware to port to, so the more Kaveri (and successor) APUs and GPUs AMD sells, the better for the developers. They have every reason to go with AMD, hence the overwhelming numbers that have chosen to go with AMD's Gaming Evolved vs. Nvidia's T.W.I.M.T.B.P. ... for the next several years AMD is very likely to own console and x86 gaming and the developers are in a position to understand that.

Added to the above is the AMD SKY boards and cloud gaming partnerships.

AMD has a lot of synergies and potentials in play with it's gaming focused strategy that, if well executed, could remap x86 gaming in relatively short order.

 

[ShintaiDK]

Another one?

http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2295910
http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2295183
http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2157753
http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2110055
http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2179934

 

[NTMBK]

Another one?

http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2295910
http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2295183
http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2157753
http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2110055
http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2179934

He's... enthusiastic. :biggrin:

 

[bgt]

We'll see if Psoomah is right. Its a nice thought if what he thinks could happen came true.

 

[Idontcare]

I feel a paradigm shift is in the air with this game-changing synergism afoot. A veritable medley of hype hope is all that is missing.

 

[NTMBK]

I feel a paradigm shift is in the air with this game-changing synergism afoot. A veritable medley of hype hope is all that is missing.

You forgot "looking forward", that's manager-speak 101!

 

[lagokc]

"if well executed"

Ah yes, as everyone knows AMD has always been great at execution.

 

[frozentundra123456]

AMD wants to own x86 gaming across the boards. A logical synergy would be to introduce a line of killer gaming APUs concurrent with the console releases that excel on next gen games. The likeliest reason for Richland is as a stopgap APU while AMD takes some extra time to tweak Kaveri into a 400lb gaming gorilla.

AMD was perfectly positioned to rework and optimize Kaveri into an optimized gaming APU concurrent with and mindful of the finalized console architectures. Hardware, middleware, HSA/HSAIL, toolsets, game engines ... AMD is deeply involved with all aspects of next gen gaming and necessarily working with all the developers and publishers.

Why do all the current and upcoming AAA games carry the Gaming Evolved logo? - What happens if Kaveri totally blows intel out of the water on next gen games? A while back an AMD PDF showed up (rapidly pulled by AMD) that showed Kaveri with some 2014 roadmap system integration element features including context switching and extending to discrete graphics. That would make for a fully HSA capable APU + GPU system. That would make 8xxx cards fully additive to Kaveri APUs providing a gaming/value proposition neither Intel or Nvidia could hope to match. A Year from now could see AMD Kaveri as the overwhelming choice for PC gamers and AMD discrete GPUs the logical partner for those APUs.

A similar dynamic would also apply to the x86 laptop and tablet markets with Temash and Kabini.

AMD is ideally positioned to assist and urge developers to provide optimized code in their games for Kaveri/8xxx GPU combos which the developers are already doing for the consoles and in return game developers get to put a far higher quality gaming experience into the hands of entry level, budget and mid level PC buyers which will grow the AAA gaming market and increase game sales. What do the developers care if AMD takes market share from Intel AND Nvidia in the process? Kaveri would be the ideal PC hardware to port to, so the more Kaveri (and successor) APUs and GPUs AMD sells, the better for the developers. They have every reason to go with AMD, hence the overwhelming numbers that have chosen to go with AMD's Gaming Evolved vs. Nvidia's T.W.I.M.T.B.P. ... for the next several years AMD is very likely to own console and x86 gaming and the developers are in a position to understand that.

Added to the above is the AMD SKY boards and cloud gaming partnerships.

AMD has a lot of synergies and potentials in play with it's gaming focused strategy that, if well executed, could remap x86 gaming in relatively short order.

I "could" win the powerball this week too. Really, a 512sp APU with a medium power CPU is going to totally redraw the gaming landscape in one year??

 

[CHADBOGA]

Well as the laws of Physics and Economic principles don't apply to AMD, I am sure that the OP is on to something here. :awe:

 

[Arkadrel]

I "could" win the powerball this week too. Really, a 512sp APU with a medium power CPU is going to totally redraw the gaming landscape in one year??

Nah....

but it ll be a BIG jump in terms of GPU performance.
Right now a Trinity A10-5800k is around ~5670 level (abit below).

512sp in a APU, would be the same as a 7750 has.

Thats atleast DOUBLE the performance, of the A10-5800k perf.


How many people use cards between these levels:

HD 5450 <-> GTS 450 / ATI 5750's ?

Imagine a APU beating all those cards, in performance.

Nvidia has this generation:
605,
610,
620 (2 versions),
625,
630 (3 versions),
635,
640, (4 versions),
645,


A 512sp APU would beat all those in performance.
And come pretty darn close to the 650 (non TI, non TI boost).

 

[lagokc]

Nah....

but it ll be a BIG jump in terms of GPU performance.
Right now a Trinity A10-5800k is around ~5670 level (abit below).

512sp in a APU, would be the same as a 7750 has.

Thats atleast DOUBLE the performance, of the A10-5800k perf.


How many people use cards between these levels:

HD 5450 <-> GTS 450 / ATI 5750's ?

Imagine a APU beating all those cards, in performance.

The 7550 DDR3 version is extremely memory bandwidth constrained with 25.6GB/s.

Using DDR3 1866 dual-channel memory means the GPU has to share with the CPU only 21GB/s of memory bandwidth. It doesn't matter how many stream processors you throw at it, the integrated GPU is not going to be faster than a 7750 until you figure out how to solve the memory bandwidth problem.

 

[Genx87]

Synergy is about all they will have once their competition is 1-2 nodes ahead of them. Good luck...

 

[Arkadrel]

@lagokc

the integrated GPU is not going to be faster than a 7750 until you figure out how to solve the memory bandwidth problem.

The 512sp APU's are supposedly comeing with GDDR5,
giveing them 54 GB/s+ (probably more) system memory bandwidth (for the GPU&CPU).

Synergy is about all they will have once their competition is 1-2 nodes ahead of them. Good luck...

Isnt 14nm first in 1H of 2015? thats still abit away yet.
Hopefully by then AMD isnt still on 28nm lmao.

 

[lagokc]

Don't get me wrong, I'm excited about the idea of Kaveri's GDDR5 and bigger APU in a light gaming laptop (or ITX HTPC!). But outside of this very specific niche I don't see it being too useful. 4GB of RAM is fine for a laptop but too little for a gaming desktop and 54.4GB/s is nowhere near the 650Ti Boost's 144.2GB/s (which is itself memory bandwidth constrained).

 

[Arkadrel]

@Lagokc

A "650 TI boost" is like twice as fast as a 7750 (notice key words: TI + Boost).
A 512sp APU wont reach anywhere near that level of performance.

But the 650 (non TI or Boost), is only like 5-10% faster than a 7750.

A 512sp APU could reach near a "normal" 650's performance.

I imagine there are alot of people gameing, on systems that are that level or lower.
For which a APU like the kaveri one, would be a huge step up.

 

[lagokc]

It's respectable performance for a laptop/small formfactor low power system but I have to point out OP's prediction of "AMD takes some extra time to tweak Kaveri into a 400lb gaming gorilla" is not on the table.

 

[insertcarehere]

@Lagokc

A "650 TI boost" is like twice as fast as a 7750 (notice key words: TI + Boost).
A 512sp APU wont reach anywhere near that level of performance.

But the 650 (non TI or Boost), is only like 5-10% faster than a 7750.

A 512sp APU could reach near a "normal" 650's performance.

I imagine there are alot of people gameing, on systems that are that level or lower.
For which a APU like the kaveri one, would be a huge step up.

I don't see 7750 performance on a laptop even with kaveri simply because of the tdp constraints that will be faced, even if it had 512sps, they will likely be clocked much lower.

 

[SPBHM]

A 512sp APU could reach near a "normal" 650's performance.

as long as it uses DDR5 at a decent clock, and 800MHz or higher core clock it should be close to the 650,
with 1866 DDR3 it would only be comparable to the GT 640 and 6670 DDR5

 

[psoomah]

I "could" win the powerball this week too. Really, a 512sp APU with a medium power CPU is going to totally redraw the gaming landscape in one year??

Yeah, if it runs GDDR5 and stomps comparably priced Intel chips into the dust on $ to $ gaming quality and additively HSA system integrates the 8xxx GPUs.

Say a $150 Kaveri APU and matching $150 fully additive GPU that provides a very high quality gaming experience on AAA next gen games that requires a $300 Intel CPU and $300 Nvidia GPU to hit that same quality. Such a scenario would massively change the gaming landscape in a matter of months.

It's a dead certainty that's what AMD is shooting for, if not with Kaveri/8xxx, then definitely the 2014 road mapped system integration features with Kaveri 2.0/9xxx. We'll find out in Q4 how how many synergies AMD was able to effectively harness to push Kaveri/8xxx toward that goal.

I'm positing Kaveri/8xxx has a lot more potential to radically change the gaming hardware landscape than most realize.

I think all the AAA develops are getting onboard AMD's Gaming Evolved train because, in addition to the console wins, they've seen the Kaveri/8xxx PDFs and know what Kaveri/8xxx (and their successors) are bringing to the table and know where PC gaming is headed.

 

[Ajay]

I think all the AAA develops are getting onboard AMD's Gaming Evolved train because they've seen the Kaveri/8xxx PDFs and know what Kaveri is bringing to the table and see where PC gaming is headed.

Won't happen because NV won't sit still on twimtbp.

 

[Enigmoid]

Yeah, if it runs GDDR5 and stomps comparably priced Intel chips into the dust on $ to $ gaming quality and additively HSA system integrates the 8xxx GPUs.

Say a $150 Kaveri APU and matching $150 fully additive GPU that provides a very high quality gaming experience on AAA next gen games that requires a $300 Intel CPU and $300 Nvidia GPU to hit that same quality. Such a scenario would massively change the gaming landscape in a matter of months.

It's a dead certainty that's what AMD is shooting for, if not with Kaveri/8xxx, then definitely with the 2014 road mapped graphics context switching/discrete graphics system integration Kaveri 2.0/9xxx. We'll find out in Q4 how how many synergies AMD was able to effectively harness to push Kaveri/8xxx toward that goal.

I'm positing Kaveri/8xxx has a lot more potential to radically change the gaming hardware landscape than most realize.

I think all the AAA develops are getting onboard AMD's Gaming Evolved train because, in addition to the console wins, they've seen the Kaveri/8xxx PDFs and know what Kaveri/8xxx *and their successors) are bringing to the table and know where PC gaming is headed.

First a $300 intel cpu would blow that apu to bits.

Haswell will also introduce an unified memory space for its igp.

Second two 7750 perform close to a 7850 which is currently $180 and will be cheaper when kaveri launches.

It would be stupid for amd to cannabalize their own sales.

 

[Rezist]

Im praying they make it work it would cut the sku's sold by vendors in half and make awesome sff lan pc's. also could really drop the cost of entry in pc gaming.

 

[psoomah]

First a $300 intel cpu would blow that apu to bits.

Haswell will also introduce an unified memory space for its igp.

Second two 7750 perform close to a 7850 which is currently $180 and will be cheaper when kaveri launches.

It would be stupid for amd to cannabalize their own sales.

It wouldn't be stupid if AMD was eating Intel's face in gaming CPU market share. And if Kaveri has full additive GPU capability across the 8xxx cards (as rumored) that face eating would extend across Nvidia's line of GPUs. Kicking those CU's into the gutter just to have the Nvidia name in your computer is a higher price than most gamers will be willing to pay.

 

[psoomah]

Im praying they make it work it would cut the sku's sold by vendors in half and make awesome sff lan pc's. also could really drop the cost of entry in pc gaming.

Everyone benefits! ... except Intel and Nvidia of course.

 

[frozentundra123456]

@Lagokc

A "650 TI boost" is like twice as fast as a 7750 (notice key words: TI + Boost).
A 512sp APU wont reach anywhere near that level of performance.

But the 650 (non TI or Boost), is only like 5-10% faster than a 7750.

A 512sp APU could reach near a "normal" 650's performance.

I imagine there are alot of people gameing, on systems that are that level or lower.
For which a APU like the kaveri one, would be a huge step up.

If they have a half decent cpu, simply upgrading their graphics card and maybe power supply would be a lot cheaper and simpler than building a new system around a Kaveri chip. Even something like a HD7770, GT650ti, or 7790 would also yield better performance.