Kate Steinle’s accused killer found not guilty

[Puffnstuff]

Lol being a lawyer requires education something you've said before you don't believe in.

He probably couldn't pass an entrance exam.😱😛

 

[John Connor]

If you took this exact same situation and replaced an illegal immigrant with a police officer conservatives would be perfectly happy with the verdict.

Not. I ran a forum called Eye On Blue. Guess what the theme of the forum was? And guess what? I'm a staunch Conservative.

I'm of the belief a rotten apple can spoil a bunch. When you are a public servant you are held to a higher standard, an example to all the general public where by you take an oath to protect and serve. I've seen many, many cases of police brutality.

 

[K1052]

Involuntary Manslaughter however he is guilty by definition.

My internet lawyering tells me that in CA that would hinge on proving reckless conduct led to the death in this case. As apparently defined in CA "recklessness" would require a knowing disregard of the consequences beyond sheer negligence/incompetence, which would not appear to fit here.

 

[fskimospy]

My internet lawyering tells me that in CA that would hinge on proving reckless conduct led to the death in this case. As apparently defined in CA "recklessness" would require a knowing disregard of the consequences beyond sheer negligence/incompetence, which would not appear to fit here.

Yes my e-law degree also tells me that simply illegally owning a firearm is not sufficient to make you guilty of involuntary manslaughter if that gun happens to kill anyone.

It’s also just kind of common sense. Say there was a defect in the gun that made it go off and kill someone without any action on his part. Should he be guilty of involuntary manslaughter because he owned it illegally? Of course not. He should be guilty of illegal possession, and he was.

 

[brycejones]

Yes my e-law degree also tells me that simply illegally owning a firearm is not sufficient to make you guilty of involuntary manslaughter if that gun happens to kill anyone.

It’s also just kind of common sense. Say there was a defect in the gun that made it go off and kill someone without any action on his part. Should he be guilty of involuntary manslaughter because he owned it illegally? Of course not. He should be guilty of illegal possession, and he was.

But he was in illegal so he should be guilty of 1st degree murder because of that and hung in public 2 minutes after the verdict! Justice old west style is all we need.

 

[pcgeek11]

Having studied law I know that intent is critical when proving a case.

Having studied law, can you explain the definition of Involuntary Manslaughter which specifically says "Unintentional Killing"?

If you can please do because if intent is required for involuntary manslaughter then why would it state Unintentional killing in the definition. I don't think he intended to kill anyone, but his reckless action and being a convicted felon in possession of a firearm meets the requirement as far as I have read.

Granted I never studied law. I am willing to learn from your studies.

 

[K1052]

Yes my e-law degree also tells me that simply illegally owning a firearm is not sufficient to make you guilty of involuntary manslaughter if that gun happens to kill anyone.

It’s also just kind of common sense. Say there was a defect in the gun that made it go off and kill someone without any action on his part. Should he be guilty of involuntary manslaughter because he owned it illegally? Of course not. He should be guilty of illegal possession, and he was.

My question in this case is what the actual fuck was the prosecutor doing pushing a 1st degree murder charge. If the basic facts of the case are accurate this seems like a gross and transparent overcharge. Were I on the jury I'd be super duper skeptical of a prosecution trying to pin a person for 1st murder based on a ricochet. I'm guessing this was not helpful to the rest of their case.

 

[brycejones]

My question in this case is what the actual fuck was the prosecutor doing pushing a 1st degree murder charge. If the basic facts of the case are accurate this seems like a gross and transparent overcharge. Were I on the jury I'd be super duper skeptical of a prosecution trying to pin a person for 1st murder based on a ricochet. I'm guessing this was not helpful to the rest of their case.

If you were the DA and pushed anything less in this environment you would have been excoriated by the right wing media for taking it easy on an illegal.

 

[NesuD]

Jury got it right, you can't murder someone with a bullet ricochet. Horrible event, but from the evidence intent just wasn't there. The jury got it right.

If this was a white guy you would be calling it a horrible accident and he shouldn't have his life destroyed by it.

Not True! Felony Murder statutes clearly say otherwise.

 

[John Connor]

Lol being a lawyer requires education something you've said before you don't believe in.

Now you're putting words in my mouth. I never said I don't believe in education. What ever it was that I said you clearly misinterpreted to further your vindictive bullshit.

 

[Sheik Yerbouti]

Here's an example. Parents are dead beat pot heads. Leave their pot laced candy out for a 4 year old to consume. Kid dies and parents are charged with reckless endangerment, child abuse among a whole slew of other shit.

Yo, fatboy 3, cite 1 case of overdose from marijuana. Literally 1. While you enjoy your booze and bagel bites to the point of obesity, your take on pot is as ignorant as the rest of your ramblings. I'll wait here for that od from marijuana...

 

[K1052]

reckless action

Again, no lawyer here, but the legal definitions of words don't always match up with what your average person would say it is. Such seems to be the case here and the jury decided the definition was not met.

 

[K1052]

If you were the DA and pushed anything less in this environment you would have been excoriated by the right wing media for taking it easy on an illegal.

I understand the political motivation but assuming you were actually in pursuit of justice here it seems like a poor decision.

 

[fskimospy]

Not True! Felony Murder statutes clearly say otherwise.

Felony murder is also very different than involuntary manslaughter.

Also, felony murder is bullshit. If you rob a bank and someone has a heart attack while you’re doing it you could be guilty of murder. Ridiculous.

 

[John Connor]

How the fuck does a gun go off three times by "accident?" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_of_Kathryn_Steinle#Investigation

 

[Sheik Yerbouti]

Now you're putting words in my mouth. I never said I don't believe in education. What ever it was that I said you clearly misinterpreted to further your vindictive bullshit.

Ahh conner, for someone who runs a *cough* forum, you're blithely ignorant of the search function

Hey shit for brains. I'm too old and have bad health. I kick myself for not joining the Navy when I was 19 and was about to go with the recruiter, but the placement specialist or whatever her position was convinced me not to and go to college. Well, one thing lead to another I didn't waist time going to college and I never did join the Navy. But if I could I would! I would look into radar or radio communications. Something around that.

So if you consider going to college a "waist" of time, that's pretty telling as to your views on the importance of education.

 

[Puffnstuff]

Having studied law, can you explain the definition of Involuntary Manslaughter which specifically says "Unintentional Killing"?

If he'd directly threatened her with the weapon, such as trying to rob them using the weapon and it was discharged killing her then the prosecution would've had a strong case. However, the victim and her dad were walking along unhindered by the gunman when the shot rang out striking and killing her. These are two different circumstances and the jury had to consider many facts that might never be known to the public in order to reach their verdict.

It's a very sad and disturbing incident and as a father I can certainly understand the family's grief over the loss of their daughter. The guy should've never been allowed to come back into our country which is why our immigration laws must be upheld and enforcement must be stepped up.

 

[FIVR]

Hopefully he gets a good job and when the Democrats take over in 2018 we can give him amnesty and a free house. When he gets full citizenship in 2020 we will have him run for congress just to rustle the jimmies of John Connor and all conservatives.


Rep. Zarate has a good ring to it.

 

[pcgeek11]

I’m pretty sure that’s not how it works. The illegal act needs to directly relate to the death. For example if you happened to illegally possess drugs you wouldn’t be guilty of involuntary manslaughter if someone else took them without your knowledge and overdosed. (Again, to the best of my knowledge)

The weapon he was in illegal possession of as a convicted felon was directly related to her death. He pulled the trigger and the bullet from the illegal weapon hit her in the back unintentionally. That is my opinion.

 

[John Connor]

And this alibi of shooting seals is bullshit. You don't go into public and shot seals.

 

[John Connor]

Hopefully he gets a good job and when the Democrats take over in 2018 we can give him amnesty and a free house. When he gets full citizenship in 2020 we will have him run for congress just to rustle the jimmies of John Connor and all conservatives.


Rep. Zarate has a good ring to it.

Eat more apples.

 

[pcgeek11]

When did you pass the California bar?

I never did.
Are you a licensed lawyer in the state of California?
When did you pass the bar?

 

[fskimospy]

The weapon he was in illegal possession of as a convicted felon was directly related to her death. He pulled the trigger and the bullet from the illegal weapon hit her in the back unintentionally. That is my opinion.

Can we agree that if the gun was defective and fired completely on its own that he would not be guilty of involuntary manslaughter?

If so then the only question to me is if his actions while in possession of the gun were sufficient.

 

[Thebobo]

I was never so happy and sad to see Waaaaanity and Ftucker whine on FOX after the verdict. Man the shit storm they riled themselves into was epic. Lol blaming liberals obama clinton it was embarrassing yet strangely entertaining to watch.

 

[pcgeek11]

Your initial ad hominem response had it's predictable effect, I dislike you and mistrust your arguments.

Leaving that aside (so much as it's possible), I'll just say that the involuntary manslaughter conviction (which was probably the most difficult part of the jury's duty to determine), came out acquittal because it wasn't convincing that the accused was aware of his negligence.

I didn't mean to attack you I apologize for that.

That is fine if you don't like me as I really do not care what anyone on an internet forum thinks of me.

My arguments are the definitions of the law. Take them or leave them.

I do hope the feds and DOJ give this girls family some justice.

California sucks.