Kansas National Guard Hampered Coping With Tornado Aftermath

[Harvey]

Originally posted by: Corbett

Originally posted by: Harvey
Kansas Governor, Kathleen Sebelius disagrees.

So then what do you have to say for the fact that yesterday she came out and said "What I meant to say was, if we were to have a second disaster, then we would be stretched too thin."?

Because that's what was on the wires, yesterday. As expected, the story has expanded and progressed, and this thread is tracking those changes. What else would you'd expect?

 

[chucky2]

Yes, it's progressed all right...it's progressed into the KA gov. realizing what she said basically points to her not taking the proper steps to ensure her state is prepared for disaster.

I'm sure once she realized that in knee jerk bashing Bush, she revealed her lack of planning, she decided to recant.

Chuck

 

[Corbett]

Originally posted by: Harvey
Because that's what was on the wires, yesterday. As expected, the story has expanded and progressed, and this thread is tracking those changes. What else would you'd expect?

So you arent even going to admit that the Kansas governor basically comes out and retracts what she said? Therefore making your entire argument moot.

 

[BoberFett]

Bush is a moron.

Iraq has been a big cock-up from the beginning.

Neither of those things is relevant here. It's a small town. Even if there were no war in Iraq and the KS NG were at 100%, do you really think they'd mobilize their entire NG force to do the cleanup?

 

[jrenz]

Originally posted by: Corbett

Originally posted by: Harvey
Because that's what was on the wires, yesterday. As expected, the story has expanded and progressed, and this thread is tracking those changes. What else would you'd expect?

So you arent even going to admit that the Kansas governor basically comes out and retracts what she said? Therefore making your entire argument moot.

I don't think he has any 4-page cut-and-paste posts for that scenario.

 

[Harvey]

Originally posted by: Corbett

Originally posted by: Harvey
Because that's what was on the wires, yesterday. As expected, the story has expanded and progressed, and this thread is tracking those changes. What else would you'd expect?

So you arent even going to admit that the Kansas governor basically comes out and retracts what she said? Therefore making your entire argument moot.

Actually, she didn't "retract what she said," basically, or any other way. She acknowledged that Kansas has now received help, and in fact, she praised FEMA's reaction to the crisis, but they're still facing the overarching problems due personnel and hardware shortages due to the war in Iraq.

In the President?s Kitchen
Gov. Kathleen Sebelius caused a political storm when she warned the White House that the National Guard deployment in Iraq hurt her ability to respond to a home-state tornado. What happened next?and how it felt touring the wreckage with the president Wednesday.

By Karen Breslau
Newsweek

May 9, 2007 - As residents of Greensburg, Kan., struggle to recover from a 200-mph tornado that flattened their community last Friday, killing 11, the state?s governor, Kathleen Sebelius, touched off a political storm with the Bush administration, warning that the demands of the Iraq War had handicapped the ability of the Kansas National Guard to respond to the disaster. ?We have a looming crisis on our hands,? she said. This is not the first time that Sebelius, a Democrat, has complained that the war has diverted troops and equipment needed in the event of natural disasters, such as the one that struck Kansas last week. NEWSWEEK?s Karen Breslau spoke by phone with Gov. Sebelius after she finished touring the disaster site with President Bush on Wednesday. Excerpts:
Story continues below ?advertisement
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NEWSWEEK: You and other governors have been warning for the past couple of years that your National Guard troops are stretched too thin. Was this tragedy in Greensburg your nightmare come true?
Kathleen Sebelius: It is in some sense. We have the assets we need to deal with this situation here on Day 5. What?s very worrying is that right after this happened we had torrential rains and some flooding. Our adjutant general told me was that if we have to choose in Topeka, if we had to deploy National Guard and equipment [and choose] between a flood or tornado cleanup, we?d be in trouble. It?s a huge concern, and one governors have been talking about for three years. The troops go to Iraq and take equipment, and when they return, they leave the equipment there. There has been no replacement strategy. The Pentagon says the plan is to replace 90 percent of equipment over the next six years. I don?t think there is a governor in the country who thinks that is a safe and sound strategy for managing security at home. I?ve been in lots of meetings on this issue and it doesn?t matter if it?s Republicans or Democrats. One of the key spokesmen for this issue was the secretary of the Interior, Dirk Kempthorne [formerly the Republican governor of Idaho]. He made this case on behalf of the governors over and over again.
.
.
Did you have the sense that the president got what you were saying? Did he share your view of the problem facing governors?

I?m not sure. My sense is that while this is a real Department of Defense issue?they supply and equip the guards?this has not been their highest priority. What the president acknowledged was that there was money in the budget, but again, their [the Pentagon?s] response to the governors has been pretty consistent: they have a six-year plan. I?m not sure that anyone feels from a commander in chief point of view, with these troops we call on to be first responders, that this is a comforting response. We want our troops going into a war zone to have the equipment they need. But if they are asked to do two jobs?to be first responders and be troops on the battlefield?a request that?s never been there in history, then we need a different strategy.

The National Guard would not be ready at home?

Our surrounding states don?t have the resources to lend.

Because their stuff is also in Iraq?

Right. God forbid we have another attack. We know we?ll have natural disasters?wildfires in the West, hurricanes, tornadoes. This is our second FEMA disaster in Kansas this year. We had a huge ice storm in January, which required using the guard to open roads and rescue people, and bring in food to livestock. We are in the beginning of our tornado season.

There was some pretty strong language from the White House this week. At one point, spokesman Tony Snow seemed to chide you for not asking for the right equipment from the federal government. ?If you don?t request it, you?re not going to get it,? he said. How would you grade the federal response to the Greensburg disaster?

We are thankful for the prompt federal response, we are thankful for the assets. This is Day 5 and we have what we need. The White House has taken lessons of previous disasters seriously and heard the outcry about timely response. This FEMA response has been terrific. We had the FEMA director, we had a disaster declaration. It?s a different situation than what we?ve seen in other cases.

Among others supporting your remarks this week were an antiwar group and Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama. Your home-state senator, Sam Brownback, who?s running for the Republican presidential nomination, called your remarks about National Guard preparedness ?unfortunate.? Did you expect the political tornado?

That?s too bad. It?s this partisan divide that is unfortunate. I can assure you my comments as a commander in chief [of the guard in Kansas] have been made over and over again by Republican and Democratic governors. This is not an issue that?s new, unfortunately. What does happen, is that as war continues, the reserve equipment supply is depleted each month as new troops are sent overseas. This maxes us out. If we have another incident where we have to deploy guard troops and equipment, then I have to make a choice.

And she's not alone. Arkansas Gov. Mike Beebe says they're facing the same problem.

Governor Worried Guard Lacks Equipment

Wednesday, May 9, 2007 8:54 AM CDT
By Rob Moritz

Arkansas News Bureau ? rmoritz@arkansasnews.com

LITTLE ROCK ? With much of its heavy equipment being used in Iraq, the Arkansas National Guard may lack resources to assist with cleanup in the event of a large-scale disaster, Gov. Mike Beebe said Tuesday.

Kansas Gov. Kathleen Sebelius ran into such a problem last week when she found that state?s national guard, which also has sent units to Iraq, to be lacking equipment and resources when called upon for assistance in the aftermath of devastating tornadoes.

?That?s a problem we have; she?s absolutely right,? Beebe said Tuesday. ?Gov. Sebelius is a good leader, a good person, somebody who calls it like she sees it. She?s indicated that they are way below strength in the equipment that would normally be available to the national guard because its been utilized and sent to Iraq.?

A Guard spokesman said resources would be available when needed in the state.

Beebe said he realizes the Guard?s top priority is to serve the U.S. in times of war, but he said part-time soldiers are sometimes needed to help in the aftermath of tornadoes and other natural disasters.

?We need to send whatever equipment we need to send and have whatever equipment we need to have to support our troops in Iraq,? he said. ?I favor that first, that is my No. 1 goal. Having said that, it would be nice if the federal government would supply them sufficient materials so that the states would still have sufficient materials for their people in case of a crisis.?

Like the Kansas National Guard, many Arkansas Guard troops have been called to active duty and served in Iraq or Afghanistan. The 39th Infantry Brigade, which has about 3,000 soldiers, was mobilized for 18 months, mainly in 2004, and most of the unit served in Iraq.

Since their return, some have expressed concern about a lack of equipment because much of the heavy equipment was damaged, destroyed or left behind in Iraq.

Beebe said Tuesday that much of the Guard?s engineering unit is deployed in Iraq, and that the state?s Blackhawk helicopters, which are often used in rescue operations, also are deployed oversees.

When a tornado swept through Dumas in February, state Forestry Commission heavy equipment was used to help in the cleanup, Beebe said.

The governor said commission equipment was used because it was easily accessible, but added that he?s not sure how long it would have taken National Guard personnel and equipment to reach the scene, or if it would have been available.

Capt. Chris Heathscott, spokesman for the Arkansas National Guard, said Tuesday he is aware of the issues raised by Beebe and Sebelius.

?I can understand their concern, but that?s what the equipment is there for, wartime missions, and the states can authorize use of the equipment when the equipment is not being used,? he said.

Heathscott said Arkansas is part of an emergency management assistance compact with other states that allows for the governor to ask for National Guard help from other states after a natural disaster, if state Guard troops are not available.

Heathscott said the Arkansas National Guard Blackhawk helicopters are currently in use in Iraq, but the state Guard has borrowed several helicopters from other states and they are in Arkansas and ready for use.

He said the 875th Engineering Battalion out of Jonesboro is currently deployed in Iraq, but an engineering company with the 39th out of Clarksville is in the state and available for use.

 

[Corbett]

Originally posted by: Harvey
Actually, she didn't "retract what she said," basically, or any other way.

Oh really?

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,271070,00.html

Her spokesman said what the governor meant Tuesday was if there were another national disaster in Kansas, the National Guard would be stretched.

Insert obligatory "Faux Noise" quote here :

 

[JD50]

Originally posted by: JD50

Originally posted by: JD50

1. How much equipment do you need to clean up a town of 1500 people?

2. How much equipment does the NG have available at the moment?

3. How hard is it to find this equipment in the middle of thousands of farms full of this kind of equipment?

If you can answer these questions I'll be impressed, otherwise its just another attempt to blame everything under the sun on GWB. Did you look into this issue at all or is this just another knee jerk liberal knock on GWB?

GWB has really fvked up a lot of stuff, but this is not one of those things.

Still waiting on an answer for this, from anyone......I know you guys were on a roll about GWB causing tornadoes and all, but maybe now that its been a day some of you have taken your meds and can think rationally again.

Hello? I know its tough to come up with something original instead of a cut and paste reply, but you've had a couple of days now to find this info. Do you honestly think that you need the entire Kansas National Guard to clean up a town of 1500 people?

You guys are really reaching with this thread.

 

[Corbett]

Originally posted by: JD50

Originally posted by: JD50

Originally posted by: JD50

1. How much equipment do you need to clean up a town of 1500 people?

2. How much equipment does the NG have available at the moment?

3. How hard is it to find this equipment in the middle of thousands of farms full of this kind of equipment?

If you can answer these questions I'll be impressed, otherwise its just another attempt to blame everything under the sun on GWB. Did you look into this issue at all or is this just another knee jerk liberal knock on GWB?

GWB has really fvked up a lot of stuff, but this is not one of those things.

Still waiting on an answer for this, from anyone......I know you guys were on a roll about GWB causing tornadoes and all, but maybe now that its been a day some of you have taken your meds and can think rationally again.

Hello? I know its tough to come up with something original instead of a cut and paste reply, but you've had a couple of days now to find this info. Do you honestly think that you need the entire Kansas National Guard to clean up a town of 1500 people?

You guys are really reaching with this thread.

Please stop clogging up this thread with facts and things that make sense. You have to blame it everything Bush, no matter what happens! OR ELSE YER A beloved patriot REPUBLICAN MOUTHPEICE LIAR!

 

[ProfJohn]

Hey at least Harvey stuck around when the rest of the ?blame Bush? crowd ran for the hills.

 

[Corbett]

No, I believe Harvey has joined them in running for the hills now as well. He has moved on to the next big Bush bashing.

 

[Harvey]

Originally posted by: Corbett
No, I believe Harvey has joined them in running for the hills now as well. He has moved on to the next big Bush bashing.

I see your into "faith based" information about me. I believe your reality check just bounced. :laugh:

 

[dphantom]

Originally posted by: Harvey

Originally posted by: Corbett
No, I believe Harvey has joined them in running for the hills now as well. He has moved on to the next big Bush bashing.

I see your into "faith based" information about me. I believe your reality check just bounced. :laugh:

Dang...he came back all by himself.

 

[Corbett]

Originally posted by: Harvey

Originally posted by: Corbett
No, I believe Harvey has joined them in running for the hills now as well. He has moved on to the next big Bush bashing.

I see your into "faith based" information about me. I believe your reality check just bounced. :laugh:

Nothing faith based about it. Its a fact. You are avoiding the subject.

You have been posting all day and havent come back to this thread. And when you did, you had nothing to say about the topic. Care to respond to my last post or how about JD50s?

 

[Corbett]

Still waiting Harvey....

 

[Harvey]

Originally posted by: Corbett
Still waiting Harvey....

Keep waiting. I replied four minutes after your post, and you replied, but now, you can't even acknowledge it.

FOAD. You're not worth the effort to reply further. :laugh:

 

[dmcowen674]

5-11-2007 GAO: National Guard Stretched Thin

The September 11, 2001, terrorist attacks and the subsequent the global war on terrorism have triggered the largest activation of National Guard forces since World War II.

As of last year, over one-half to two-thirds of the National Guard's 500,000 personnel had been activated for overseas warfighting in Iraq or domestic homeland security missions in federal or state active duty roles.

Since September 11, the Guard has been performing several unanticipated homeland missions, such as flying patrols over US cities and guarding critical infrastructure.

However, states have concerns about the preparedness and availability of Guard forces for domestic needs and natural disasters while overseas deployments continue at a high pace.

 

[Corbett]

Originally posted by: Harvey

Originally posted by: Corbett
Still waiting Harvey....

Keep waiting. I replied four minutes after your post, and you replied, but now, you can't even acknowledge it.

FOAD. You're not worth the effort to reply further. :laugh:

FOAD? Well thats mature isnt it?

Apparently you are getting senile in your old age. You have failed to repond to my last post. Here let me help you out :

Originally posted by: Corbett

Originally posted by: Harvey
Actually, she didn't "retract what she said," basically, or any other way.

Oh really?

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,271070,00.html

Her spokesman said what the governor meant Tuesday was if there were another national disaster in Kansas, the National Guard would be stretched.

Insert obligatory "Faux Noise" quote here :

 

[Harvey]

Originally posted by: Corbett
FOAD? Well thats mature isnt it?

Apparently you are getting senile in your old age. You have failed to repond to my last post.

What makes you think I give a rat's ass if it's mature? It's applicable and it's all that's appropriate for your meaningless drivel. :laugh:

 

[Fern]

This thread shoulda been dead the same day it started. The head of the State's NG came on TV that night and said that they had enough people & equipment to handle the job. Period.

Does this continually droning about the NG's being strtched thin and possibly not being capable of helping future disasters qualify as "fear mongering"?

Fern

 

[Corbett]

Originally posted by: Harvey

Originally posted by: Corbett
FOAD? Well thats mature isnt it?

Apparently you are getting senile in your old age. You have failed to repond to my last post.

What makes you think I give a rat's ass if it's mature? It's applicable and it's all that's appropriate for your meaningless drivel. :laugh:

If it were so meaningless, you wouldnt be here talking about it.

Now if you would like to grow up and act like you are 65 again, try answering the question.

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: Fern
This thread shoulda been dead the same day it started. The head of the State's NG came on TV that night and said that they had enough people & equipment to handle the job. Period.

Does this continually droning about the NG's being strtched thin and possibly not being capable of helping future disasters qualify as "fear mongering"?

No, personal experience.

 

[Fern]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: Fern
This thread shoulda been dead the same day it started. The head of the State's NG came on TV that night and said that they had enough people & equipment to handle the job. Period.

Does this continually droning about the NG's being strtched thin and possibly not being capable of helping future disasters qualify as "fear mongering"?

No, personal experience.

Whoa, Dave I see you're in Oklahoma.

Have ever seen a tornado close up?

Fern

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: Fern

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: Fern
This thread shoulda been dead the same day it started. The head of the State's NG came on TV that night and said that they had enough people & equipment to handle the job. Period.

Does this continually droning about the NG's being strtched thin and possibly not being capable of helping future disasters qualify as "fear mongering"?

No, personal experience.

Whoa, Dave I see you're in Oklahoma.

Have ever seen a tornado close up?

Many times and not just here in Oklahoma. I have had Tornado footage aired in Florida and Georgia. Here in Oklahoma fortunately picked an area with a ridge sitting to the north axis from SW to NE with another one to the east forcing storms to shear in half. It is a three river (Spring, Elk and Neosho) basin that has been dammed up to form Grand Lake with the world's longest arched dam at 21 arches.

I've watched storms make a left hand turn because of getting sheared. Then they re-group and head back northeast toward the Kansas-Missouri border and hammer the SW Kansas SW Missouri areas.

 

[JD50]

Originally posted by: Harvey

Originally posted by: Corbett
FOAD? Well thats mature isnt it?

Apparently you are getting senile in your old age. You have failed to repond to my last post.

What makes you think I give a rat's ass if it's mature? It's applicable and it's all that's appropriate for your meaningless drivel. :laugh:

You really go off the deep end when you get pwned in your own thread don't you?