K9N breakthrough

[sHAKER281]

Like others I have been having a miserable time getting my new K9N Platinum SLI to boot properly. My system is

Athlon 64 X2 4000+
K9N Platinum SLI
Zalman CNPS9500
MSI GeForce NX7600GT-VT2D256E
Corsair twin2x2048-6400
Zalman NB Heatsink
WD Raptor 74 Gb SATA
WD Caviar 250 Gb SATA

And my previously used Antec Truepower 430 w/ 20 pin ATX connector<<< Big doubts here!

My system will almost NEVER boot from power up, but will ALWAYS reboot! When it is up it runs great. When it fails boot from power up it lights LEDs 1,2 & 3 red and led 4 green. This has always been a clue! The manual says it is "initializing video interface" and the monitor never starts.

I have done everything including bios update to v1.3, Memtest, 1 stick of memory, changing memory timing through bios...

Flashing bios or resetting CMOS will cause "checksum errors', but I think this is unrelated and merely symptomatic of another issue. And, like others resetting CMOS had left me with a dead USB mouse a few times. Eventually after unplugging, pressing "power" and replugging (sometimes a few times) the mouse will come back.

But, I could not help notice that it would often power up after unplugging and replugging the monitor cable (analog with an adapter). Well, this is what I found out! ***If I power off the monitor, before a reboot and power it back on after POST, IT COMES UP EVERY TIME!

I don't know if this is due to my power supply being underpowered (Antec truepower 430) or the analog monitor w/ adapter or simply a problem with the MB or videocard. I have the videocard in the lower PCI-E X16 position due to my Zalman NB heatsink. I have tried two different adapters and both DVI ports on the video card.

You folks who are having problems should check you LEDs for fail codes and try powering off you monitors. Has anyone with this problem been using a "digital interfacing" monitor or 500+ watt PS? I'd sure like to know if this is due to the monitor, power supply, video card or MB.

Thanks, and I hope this lead to a better understanding of this problem, please post your info!

 

[IEC]

It *could* be the PSU, but contrary to what most "1337 gamers" tend to believe, the wattage on the PSU is almost irrelevant if it's a quality 400W+ PSU.

I've used my Antec TruePower 430W for 4 years now - it's the only component that's survived 3 system upgrades/changes. Reliable as hell, and I believe even better once I replaced the stock fans. I can run a A64 @ 2.7GHz with 2GB of RAM, 4hdds, 2 opticals, 4 fans, X850XT PE vid card, and more random stuff with no problem. 24/7, full load with F@H or a game. This thing ain't going anywhere anytime soon

 

[happy medium]

Try a different video card if you can. My system had a hard time booting a few months ago. Sometimes I would get it to boot by pressing reset or turning my monitor on and off manually. After about a week it (the video card) would not send a signal to my monitor at all. I rma'd video card and now it's fine. Does your hard drive spin up and does it go through all the initial test but not give your monitor a signal?

 

[sHAKER281]

Originally posted by: happy medium
Try a different video card if you can. My system had a hard time booting a few months ago. Sometimes I would get it to boot by pressing reset or turning my monitor on and off manually. After about a week it (the video card) would not send a signal to my monitor at all. I rma'd video card and now it's fine.

Yes, I am wondering about the videocard too. I have it in the lower PCI-E X16 slot. My Zalman NB heatsink blocks the upper slot. I will try moving it, but what a hassel (completely remove MB to put back OEM heatsink!). I tried both DVI ports and both adapters. It is my only SLI card, so no luck on swapping it. RMA will be a PITA since I sent in the UPC on the rebate which needed to be postmaked. Frickin' rebates not worth the trouble! At least I photocopied the UPC.

Originally posted by: happy mediumDoes your hard drive spin up and does it go through all the initial test but not give your monitor a signal?

No, it stops within about 5 seconds of power on, at video initialization, and the leds freeze at 1,2,3 red and 4 green. I think it stops before it even attempts to drive the monitor signal. Apparently it doesn't run this test on a reboot, cuz it never fails that way ever!

 

[lopri]

Very interesting finding although I don't have the board. Thanks for sharing!

 

[sHAKER281]

I just discovered this MB only supprts PCI-E X16 if the card is in the primary slot. I'll move it today and see if my POST problem goes away. I will have to remove the Zalman NB HS. Maybe having this x16 videocard in the seconday slot without a SLI bridge is causing my whole problem.

UPDATE: I moved the videocard to the primary X16 slot and no luck! Same exact problem.

Do not know whether to consider this a video card trouble or MB trouble or even a power supply trouble.

BTW. I put a temp probe on the OEM heatsink (down in the fins directly over the NB chipset. That sucker is running around 90 degrees C.

 

[Bateluer]

Originally posted by: sHAKER281


BTW. I put a temp probe on the OEM heatsink (down in the fins directly over the NB chipset. That sucker is running around 90 degrees C.

Aye, MSI's stock heatsink is woefully small and underpowered for the NF5 NB. I replaced mine with the Swiftech chipset cooler, much better.

 

[gxshockwav]

Originally posted by: Bateluer

Originally posted by: sHAKER281


BTW. I put a temp probe on the OEM heatsink (down in the fins directly over the NB chipset. That sucker is running around 90 degrees C.

Aye, MSI's stock heatsink is woefully small and underpowered for the NF5 NB. I replaced mine with the Swiftech chipset cooler, much better.

What swiftech chipset cooler did you use? was it a good fit?

 

[happy medium]

check this out

dippyskoodlez
XS News




Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 810
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigtoe

I still need testers though, if you have a cold boot issue please get in touch.


90% of my mobo is absolutely perfect, but i have an occasional cold boot.. like when swapping a part, or pulling the power cord-- not a regular cold boot, it just wont power on at all.. I usually have to remove the power plug, and plug it back in, as if the PSU overvoltage is protecting it... sometimes its fine, sometimes it isnt.

rails are flawless. Specs in sig.. probably not what your lookin for..
__________________
Sempron 2800+ @ 2.4ghz
Sapphire X850XT
2x 512mb Mushkin DDR2
400w FSP
MSI K9N Neo (this mobo sucks. STAY AWAY.)


and this

http://forumz.tomshardware.com/hardware...rce570-boot-problem-ftopict188146.html



and this might solve your problem It's a beta bios for boot problem not avalable on msi site


http://www.bleedinedge.com/forum/showthread.php?t=21979


I don't know why this stuff is highlighted?

 

[sHAKER281]

Originally posted by: Bateluer
Aye, MSI's stock heatsink is woefully small and underpowered for the NF5 NB. I replaced mine with the Swiftech chipset cooler, much better.

Is yours the SLI board? My NSI NX7600GT (in primary PCI-E to achieve X16) covers that OEM HS pretty good. Are you using the primary slot? Which swiftech cooler exactly?

 

[sHAKER281]

Originally posted by: happy medium
check this out

dippyskoodlez
XS News

http://forumz.tomshardware.com/hardware...rce570-boot-problem-ftopict188146.html

and this might solve your problem It's a beta bios for boot problem not avalable on msi site

http://www.bleedinedge.com/forum/showthread.php?t=21979

Wow, thanks! Happy medium you nailed it!

I did originally check my RAM timing. But, I did not know which settings to focus on. I just made sure it was set to the MFR spec of 5-5-5-5-12. So, I just set it to 5-5-5-5-15 1T

Well, I'll be dipped in dung, but it worked! Even though everyone else is hanging up at the memory detection test (3 green 1 red) and I was hanging consistantly at video initialization (3 red 1 green). I can now boot up with the monitor powered on.

Anyhow, all I did was change TRAS to 15! Then I put my command rate to 1T, which this Corsair memory is rated for, cuz it came up at 2T. And it seemd fine now. I didn't even have to flash the bios.

 

[Bateluer]

Originally posted by: sHAKER281

Originally posted by: Bateluer
Aye, MSI's stock heatsink is woefully small and underpowered for the NF5 NB. I replaced mine with the Swiftech chipset cooler, much better.

Is yours the SLI board? My NSI NX7600GT (in primary PCI-E to achieve X16) covers that OEM HS pretty good. Are you using the primary slot? Which swiftech cooler exactly?

Using the MCX159 cooler and a Radeon X1900XT in the secondary slot. I have to put it in the secondary slot in order to use the better cooler. I might be able to fit two single slot cards in there with the Swiftech cooler, but I don't have any single slot cards.

 

[sHAKER281]

Yeah, my card takes two slots also. And I originally had mine in the secondary slot too. But, it is my understanding that only the primary slot utilizes x16 capability. How much might this affect performance? Any idea?

I would like to put back the Zalman NBF47 or try the swiftech. Right now the graphics card is getting a buttload of heat right off the OEM heatsink and the heatsink is partially blocked by the graphics card cooling solution.

 

[sHAKER281]

BTW, why doesn't MSI make this matter a little better known? Even if it is a Corsair problem, it must be causing a lot of unnecessary RMAs.

 

[happy medium]

Originally posted by: sHAKER281

Originally posted by: happy medium
check this out

dippyskoodlez
XS News

http://forumz.tomshardware.com/hardware...rce570-boot-problem-ftopict188146.html

and this might solve your problem It's a beta bios for boot problem not avalable on msi site

http://www.bleedinedge.com/forum/showthread.php?t=21979

Wow, thanks! Happy medium you nailed it!

I did originally check my RAM timing. But, I did not know which settings to focus on. I just made sure it was set to the MFR spec of 5-5-5-5-12. So, I just set it to 5-5-5-5-15 1T

Well, I'll be dipped in dung, but it worked! Even though everyone else is hanging up at the memory detection test (3 green 1 red) and I was hanging consistantly at video initialization (3 red 1 green). I can now boot up with the monitor powered on.

Anyhow, all I did was change TRAS to 15! Then I put my command rate to 1T, which this Corsair memory is rated for, cuz it came up at 2T. And it seemd fine now. I didn't even have to flash the bios.

You very welcome

 

[sHAKER281]

Well, I may have jumped the gun.

After about 8 successful power up boots the trouble reappeared. So, I flashed to Beta Bios 1.31...no help. The, I flashed to Bios Beta 1.43...no help. And I put my TRAS to 15 and command rate back to 2T.

All in all, it seems a little better, might boot from power up 1 in 10 times. And seems better when cold.

I am going to try a different monitor. If that doesn't work, I may have to RMA the videocard or buy a cheap PCI-E SLI card to try.


Update:

Today I tried a different monitor, neither the original NEC FE990 or a Viewsonic is any improvement. MSI says if I send them the graphics card they will return it to me fixed or send a reconditioned replacement. Unless I try a different card I cannot be certain that will even help. Seems like I will be stuck buying another card. Only question that remains is whether to buy a cheapy ($80 for a 7300GS) or another 7600GT, which I could eventually use in dual SLI mode if the original card comes back "fixed".

 

[sHAKER281]

As far as utilizing the X8 secondary in lieu of the x16 primary goes, according to some seemingly knowledgeable folks at the MSI forums, the performance difference will be quite negligable. And would only affect gaming (?) at higher resolutions with maximum A/F and AA settings. So, probably never be noticed by most users.

So, I will probably be moving mine back and re-installing the Zalman NBF-47.

 

[bullfrawg]

This is just a hunch. Have you tried a different electrical outlet? It could be a power problem, but a problem with your house's wiring rather than your power supply. Here's what I'm suggesting: You turn on your computer and monitor at the same time, and the monitor needs a big surge of power to get going. The lights dim a little (maybe not really), and your computer doesn't have enough juice to start up. Your power supply could be fine, but it isn't getting enough power out of the wall to itself, right when you start up.

This isn't very likely, but it looks like you've tried a lot of other stuff.

Good luck. Take it easy.

 

[sHAKER281]

Thank you for the suggestion bullfrawg. I am open to any ideas.

Unfortunately, yesterday I tried a different monitor and had it plugged in to a different outlet at that time. I suppose I could run an extension cord to a whole different circuit and may try that.

Today I noticed that the MSI NX7600GT runs at 580/1500 MHz as compared to "standard" 7600Gt at 560/1400. So, I went into Dual Corecell and put it down to 560/1400 and saved to a new user profile. This seemed to help some. I had several successful boots from power up with the system fully warmed up (maybe 50-70% success rate), slightly better if cold.

Earlier, changing my TRAS to 15 had helped some too.

Someone at MSI forums suggested tweaking my system PCIE bus freq from standard 100 MHz to 104 MHz. In light of the NX7600GT core/memory tweak having some apparent effect, I am hoping this will help some too! It does sound like it is have trouble sync'ing up during POST video initialization. Maybe these minor frequency adjustment are providing a little more leeway during the critical POST video initialization phase.