K-19 The Widowmaker: I want my two and a half hours back :( (spoilers)

beer

Lifer
Jun 27, 2000
11,169
1
0
Usually I read a movie synopsis, but not reviews, before I see a movie. I was hoping for something like Hunt For Red October, with the cool Cold War war games, etc. Instead all K19 was all radiation burns :( That wasn't very cool. Just a horrid, horrid movie, and a I was my 150 minutes back. I guess I'll pop in HfRO today to make up for it.

Did anyone actually LIKE this movie?
 

arod

Diamond Member
Sep 26, 2000
4,236
0
76
I wish it had more sub battles but overall I liked it, after all this was based on a true story.
 

no0b

Diamond Member
Jul 23, 2001
3,804
1
0
I saw it I thought it was rather good. But I wouldnt see it again because its rather sad. I knew what was going to happen on the boat since I saw a discovery channel show about sub. disasters. Kinda funny how so many people thought there would actualy be shooting.
 

Dark4ng3l

Diamond Member
Sep 17, 2000
5,061
1
0
It was pretty good, but not an "action" sub movie like THFRO or that WW2 movie that I dont remember the name....
 

roncarter

Golden Member
Feb 28, 2002
1,935
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Originally posted by: Elemental007
Usually I read a movie synopsis, but not reviews, before I see a movie. I was hoping for something like Hunt For Red October, with the cool Cold War war games, etc. Instead all K19 was all radiation burns :( That wasn't very cool. Just a horrid, horrid movie, and a I was my 150 minutes back. I guess I'll pop in HfRO today to make up for it.

Did anyone actually LIKE this movie?

My friends went to watch it..

Lets just say they were pretty pissed when I met up with them afterwards
 

Lucky

Lifer
Nov 26, 2000
13,126
1
0
Originally posted by: arod
I wish it had more sub battles but overall I liked it, after all this was based on a true story.



Havent seen it myself but there are a lot of critics hounding ford and this movie for its historical accuracy..
 

SuperCyrix

Platinum Member
Mar 4, 2001
2,118
0
0
ARE YOU KIDDING ME??!?!?!

K-19 was an awesome movie and one of the saddest I've ever seen.
After watching what they had to go through, the self sacrifice, i can't think of anything bad to say about a movie
based on this real life event. If they took the pussy way out the world might be nuclear waste now.
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It was painful watching them step into the reactor room one by one knowing whats going to happen to them.
I don't think I can do that. This part of the movie completely overshadowed the poor Russian accent. It was a good movie
 

Desslok

Diamond Member
Jun 14, 2001
3,780
11
81
Some of the Soviets sailors did some incrediably brave things. Though I will wait for K-19 to come out on DVD. Just a side note here, of the 17 subs lost at sea 13 were of Soviet making.
 

beer

Lifer
Jun 27, 2000
11,169
1
0
Originally posted by: AMDTechGeek
Some of the Soviets sailors did some incrediably brave things. Though I will wait for K-19 to come out on DVD. Just a side note here, of the 17 subs lost at sea 13 were of Soviet making.

Interesting fact. What timeframe does '17' emcompass? Post WW-II to present, I am assuming?
 

propellerhead

Golden Member
Apr 25, 2001
1,160
0
0
The climax of the movie was supposed to be the part where the Russians decide to dive the sub in case the reactor and the weapons go off. That was the decision that avoided nuclear war. In the movie, it didn't seem like it was such a big deal. They should've built it up some more.
 

fatbaby

Banned
May 7, 2001
6,427
1
0
how come that us destroyer didn't do sh!t? if i were a destroyer captain during the cold war era. i'd sh!t in my pants if 2 enemy subs were within 1000m of me
 

Crusty

Lifer
Sep 30, 2001
12,684
2
81
how come that us destroyer didn't do sh!t? if i were a destroyer captain during the cold war era. i'd sh!t in my pants if 2 enemy subs were within 1000m of me

They weren't officialy at war yet...in my opinion that would be a BAD idea to attack them while not at war. But i could be wrong...anyone wanna back me up?:p

I thought the movie was good, definently would rent it when it comes out to see it again!
 

Nefrodite

Banned
Feb 15, 2001
7,931
0
0
i guess you liked it as much as david poland.



"Glub, glub, glub?

I can?t really understand why anyone is giving K-19: The Widowmaker a pass. And a whole lot of people are. At least one critic has suggested that it compares favorably with Das Boot, which makes me wonder exactly what that guy was watching. There is not a single element in K-19 that deserves to even be mentioned in the same breath as Das Boot? except maybe the CG? because there was no CG when Das Boot was made. In fact, there is not a single element in K-19 that deserves to be mentioned in the same breath as Crimson Tide? except for the effort by the production team to make the story as close as possible to that hit, even if history ? which this story is ?based on? ? isn?t a real fit.

K-19 is rotten at the core. I?m not going to explain how until later in the review, after a spoiler warning, because I believe any examination of the Harrison Ford and Liam Neeson characters will be a spoiler?. though I wouldn?t shed a single tear over spilt rotten milk.

But before examining the central ? and virtually only ? relationship in the picture, a few words on its surface. This is Kathryn Bigalow?s worst effort yet. The tag on Bigalow has long been that she has great visual skills and trouble bringing her stories together. Movies like Point Break and Strange Days are absolutely worth the time of movie lovers because of Bigalow?s work and the work she gets out of her actors even though, in the final analysis, both films fail. I wish I could point to a single great visual moment in the entirety of K-19. There are one or two decent sequences of intensity in the boat, but nothing particularly special or memorable. She chose to use a lot of CG to show the exterior of the ship, but it feels fake and completely superfluous. Never do you get the feel, except from the wads of expositional dialogue, that we are in 1961, in another era of behavior or in a cold war that means anything to a military crew.

Perhaps the most bizarre visual choice is the unrealistic height of corridors inside the submarine. I was fortunate enough to spend a few hours on a real submarine a couple of years ago and at six feet, I was occasionally cramped. The captain of the ship, who was, as I recall, 6? 3?, told the story of how he had to stay hunched over more often than not and had to find spaces where he could stretch out to his full height. Liam Neeson is 6? 5? and in the film, always has at least a foot of head room, except when moving though doorways. Come on.

The accents were a big part of the negative buzz on this film from early test screenings and indeed, every accent is different, accents drift in and out mid-sentence and take you out of the Russian mindset of the piece. That said, it was far from my biggest problem with this film. I would have been aware of the problem, but it?s one of those things that people jump on in any film like this. The most clever method I?ve seen in dealing with it in recent years was in Tim Blake Nelson?s The Grey Zone, in which everyone in the WWII concentration camp used their real life accents. It took a little getting used to, but it eventually allowed the viewer to focus on the humanity that brings us together as a species and not on the accents that separate us, good or evil.

Okay? time to get into the story and characters?



SPOILERS AHOY!!!



Ready?

Okay? Liam Neeson is the captain of the K-19, getting ready to be launched as a key element in the cold war. But the boat isn?t ready. The film suggests that the biggest problem is that the government has used inferior materials to build the ship and that much has to be fixed.

Enter Harrison Ford. He is the tough guy captain who is sent in to become the captain ahead of Neeson?s character. He?s brusque and tough and demanding.

So, you have the former captain, who has the love and respect of his crew and the new captain, who is a cranky hard ass who is immediately accused of endangering the ship and the lives of the crew. Black and white? good guy/ bad guy. Boring. Not as boring as the cardboard characters at the Russian politburo, but?.

There are such great moments as the good guy Neeson getting upset with the evil Ford for firing the nuclear engineer who is? get this? drunk and passed out on the job!!! Ooooohhhh! That Ford is a tough, mean man! (eyes roll) Guess what other evil he does? when the fire drills go badly, indicating that a real emergency might result in the boat sinking? you know it? he makes them do it again!!!! Boo hiss!!!

As we get to the second act, Ford?s captain takes the crew through a very dangerous maneuver, designed to both get a specific job done and to unite the crew in an unexpected success. And they have the success. But he?s still being attacked as a bad guy by Neeson and his senior crew, murmuring some stuff about him getting the job via personal relationships? which if it was true, was never clarified by the film. Just more piss in Ford?s cider.

Then comes the second half dilemma. (Yes, the story structure is a mess.) They have already achieved the goal that was set up in the beginning of the film. Surprisingly easily, in fact. But now, there is a leak in the nuclear core and the only way to fix it is to send a number of men into the radiation chamber, making them very likely to die. In the process, the nuclear engineer, on his first assignment out of school and linked to Ford?s character because he was the one who replaced the drunk guy, chickens out and doesn?t go into the radiation area. Of course, he isn?t Ford?s boy? he?s just the guy that the military sent. But that?s the ebb and flow of these characters? simple, powerful story trying to be something more commercial.

Third act? radiation is rising. The ?good? guys want to get help from nearby Americans, letting the crew get off the ship and survive. ?Bad? guy Harrison wants to sink the ship rather than allow the flagship of the Russian sub fleet get into enemy hands. Neeson wants to save his men at any cost. After a public display, Nesson is sent to his quarters for insubordination. This moves the next two officers down, who were already playing a coup, to take control of the ship away from Ford, arresting him and putting Neeson in charge. But, when they bring Neeson back to the bridge, he turns on the mutineers and arrests them.

The clouds part and suddenly, Harrison Ford?s character is a new man. He?s like the bully in a kids movie who gets some candy from the hero and turns over a new leaf. It?s not as though Ford?s character turns based on seeing the camaraderie on the crew and feels like he is one of them. He turns because the script tells him to turn.

But it gets worse. The repair on the nuclear core has failed and the ship could blow any moment. So, Ford wants to sink the ship rather than allow the flagship of the Russian sub fleet get into enemy hands. Sounds familiar? Well, it?s exactly what he wanted to do before. But Neeson tells him, ?Ask them? don?t order them.? So he explains his position ? the same position as before - and now he?s a good guy and the whole ship can?t wait to follow him to their demise. (To be fair, he adds to his explanation that if the ship explodes, it will destroy the nearby American battle ship, perhaps causing a nuclear attack on the motherland? presumably, this was a part of his consideration throughout the crisis.)

But before Ford kills them all, happily, the bad engineer who chickened out before goes into the radioactive core by himself without telling anyone and does the repair himself, spending double the time in the radiation that anyone else experienced. Ford goes in to get him all by himself, pulling him out without benefit of any protection at all. It feels like a confused version of the end of The Wrath of Khan, in which Spock dies in the radiation chamber, saving the ship. And in the end, when titles tell us that all the men who went into the core ended up dead and that 20 more men died from less direct exposure, the movie forgets the one guy who went in with no protection at all - Harrison Ford?s captain - who lives to be an old man.

So now the ship won?t explode and now Ford wants to save his men? no matter the cost. But he is saved from making the decision to let the men off and to scuttle the ship himself because a Russian sub shows up nearby. But wait! The bad politburo guys back home say that he can?t let his men leave the ship.

So good guy Harrison lets them off anyway? and they get into the other Russian sub. How does that work? The order comes through the other sub to not let the crew of K-19 disembark? and the other Russian sub lets them all come on board. Huh?!?!?!

To sum up - it turns out that Ford?s character is always right. The men were soft. He makes them strong. He wants to sink the ship and kill them all. He?s a bad, bad man. Then, he gets a conscience and does exactly the same things, but asks nicely? and he?s a great guy? a hero.

There is no internal logic in this film that works. There is no great relationship between any of the characters. Depth of character development is replaced by long, dirty close-ups of angry, worried or dying men?s faces.

Then there is the Private Ryan ending? argh. "

http://www.thehotbutton.com/today/hot.button/index.html
 

Hammer

Lifer
Oct 19, 2001
13,217
1
81
I haven't seen the movie yet, but I've read Huchthausen's book based on Zateyev's own memoirs. The disaster itself actually makes up very little of it. Zateyev (CO of the K19 but renamed in the movie) was a real professional and extremely competent. The book more than anything dealt with the Soviet/Russian's pathetic safety record and sheer stupidity in some of things they've done. I was surpised they were able to make a movie out of it.
 

RossMAN

Grand Nagus
Feb 24, 2000
78,866
367
136
I also want my 2.5 hours back, I would have preferred seeing Scooby Doo over K-19.

The Hunt for Red October ownz K-19.
 

beer

Lifer
Jun 27, 2000
11,169
1
0
Originally posted by: RossMAN
I also want my 2.5 hours back, I would have preferred seeing Scooby Doo over K-19.

The Hunt for Red October ownz K-19.


I went out and bought the DVD of THFRO yesterday and watched it. Damn, much better movie. My girl likes it too. I wonder if she's just humoring me.