Justify Power Supply Upgrade

[FearoftheNight]

I'm running an oced athlon cpu w/ a radeon 9700 pro, vantec nexus, 2 case fans, smartfan ii, a floppy, 2 drives, antec hard drive cooling and more...and I'm wondering about the benefits of a better power supply? Any opinions.

I have a Raidmaxx 350 I think that came with my system. Anyone know about the quality of those? What are the benefits of upgrading to say something like an Antec TrueBlue in the 400ish wattrange? And are there benefits also in terms of fan loudness? thanks again guys

 

[Lord Evermore]

I've only checked one RaidMaxx when somebody else here asked about them. I found specs for a 400W. The supply on the various voltage rails were pitiful even compared to a cheap 300W.

However, if you aren't actually having any problems, then there won't be any noticeable "benefits". If your fans are too loud, an Antec would be quieter. If they're not too bad, then you get nothing. (And unless you're into flashy lights that don't do anything, why get a TrueBlue?)

 

[FearoftheNight]

Uhh what sort of probs would I be experiencing?
Can someone confirm on evermore plz?
And Evermore about the flashy lights....I had 2 Quad Led Blue Case Fans....A CC Blue Tube...and 4 Blue LIghts from Vantec Nexus .

 

[BG4533]

Originally posted by: FearoftheNight
Uhh what sort of probs would I be experiencing?
Can someone confirm on evermore plz?
And Evermore about the flashy lights....I had 2 Quad Led Blue Case Fans....A CC Blue Tube...and 4 Blue LIghts from Vantec Nexus .

Crashes and instability are the biggest problems. Your voltages may be low, which may cause problems with components later on. Many problems that are usually hard to explain can ofter be linked to a bad PSU (hard time booting, subnormal performance, etc.)

Brian

 

[Fallen Kell]

One of the first things you will probably notice are stutters in performance. Especially when opening up a new highly intensive graphics application. You may also notice your fans slowing down at times, or even hear the HD start to spin down. These are all signs of a PSU that is at its limit. You can also have crashes as well, as RAM data can degrade without enough power, or the CPU may not be able to correctly compute something.

 

[FearoftheNight]

So I should just look out for these problems? Or is will degenerate to that degree in the future? I think its working fine now.

Anymore input on RAidmaxx? I'd also like suggestion on suggestions. I hear Antec, Vantec and Enermax are good companies.

 

[NokiaDude]

So what are the recommended amp ratings for each rail?

 

[BraveSirRobbin]

AMD's Builders Guide for Desktop/Tower Systems

 

[FearoftheNight]

How do I see if I have good PSU? RAils? Ur losing me bro. Sorry =\

 

[BraveSirRobbin]

How do I see if I have good PSU? RAils? Ur losing me bro

Sorry about that.

Click on my link above. Then scroll down to pages 13 and 14 (adobe page numbers, actual document page numbers are 7 & 8, there they have tables 4 & 5) where they list a "typical" system and a "power user" system. At the bottom of those spread sheets they have what the total amperage should be for the typical voltage rails.

Now look at your power supply and see how it matches with these specifications. AMD is saying that your supply should have a 20% overhead in total watts (better explanation at bottom of page 14).

They say to especially watch out for the 3.3 and 5 volt rails, that they do not exceed your power supply's ratings. If your power supply lists their specifications in total watts for combined specific rails just remember that Watts = Voltage x Current.


BSR

 

[FearoftheNight]

So are Raidmax power supplies usually good?

 

[BraveSirRobbin]

So are Raidmax power supplies usually good?

They are not "bad". They don't have as much output on the 3.3 and 5 volt rails as some of the major ones such as Antec. When I was comparing specs of my Raidmax to those shown on the spreadsheet I thought it was a little weak on the 12 volt rails though.

My friend is running the Raidmax 350 with his AMD 1600+ with an ECSK7S5A mobo, two CD Rom drives, a cheap GForce AGP video card, single WD Hard Drive, and modem with no problems so far.

 

[BraveSirRobbin]

Hello again. Let me clarify my last post. My friend who is running the system I mentioned above did not want to spend a lot of money on his system. I told him to at least get Crucial memory and he did not. Got some no-name brand on sale at Fry's.

The case that had the Raidmax power supply was free (after rebates) from Fry's also.

He is not overclocking his system at all and does not do gaming.

Will he have problems in the future with his generic memory and Raidmax power supply? Who knows. He even bought this ATT copper heat sink/fan combination for $20 that I didn't even hear of. (His system never gets over 39c CPU).

Soooo would I do the same to my system. Depends on how much money I had and if I had to make a decision on doing "without" or at least having a working system.

You on the other hand are running an overclocked system, power hungry peripherals and extra cooling. Will you have problems with the Raidmax power supply. Don't know. In order to answer this question you will have to add the amperage being drawn from each of the rails (at full load), add a little extra, then compare to the power supply's specifications.

There are other things to consider other than raw amperage supplied by a power supply. How "clean" is the power. This usually depends on the quality of voltage regulators and capacitors used to reduce the "ripple" of converting AC to DC and also how regulated the supply will maintain those voltages under heavy amperage draw.

Other things that you mentioned are the fans included with the power supply. Really good supplies have two "ball bearing" fans in them, some even have their fan's RPMs controlled by monitoring internal temperature so they are as quiet as possible. Having two fans helps remove the heat built up around the CPU area as well as improving air flow thru the power supply. AMD has a list of power supply vendors they feel have the quality to run their systems.

The best move, especially for an OC'd system would be to get the best components you can for the money you have available.

 

[FearoftheNight]

Ok. =) Thanks. Would you go a step further and calculate this power need business for me? I don't really know how to do it. If its too much work you don't have to. If so can you recommend a PSU? And how do I need to spend?

 

[FearoftheNight]

bump...help?

 

[FearoftheNight]

Ok I took some power reading. Ranges show fluctuations. Can someone tell me how my power supply is serving me?
This is w/ MBM and Asus Probe:
+3.3: 3.18 - 3.25
+5: 4.62 - 4.93
+12: 11.86 - 12.544

 

[AbsolutDealage]

Generally, I don't like voltages out of the 5% range, but as a rule, 7% is unacceptable. So....

(7% tolerances)
3.3 = 3.07 - 3.53
5 = 4.65 - 5.35
12 = 11.16 - 12.84

Your 5v rail is a little suspect IMO, and your 12v rail is definately pretty erratic. I would say that if you are looking for more stability, I would move up to a supply with a little more headroom on it.

 

[FearoftheNight]

So ideally we are looking for one that stay at 12, 3.3, and 5 exactly?
12.7-12.8
4.7 - 4.8xx
3.2xx

I took these numbers solely w/ Asus Probe w/ no MBM after running Prime for 12 hrs.

 

[AbsolutDealage]

Yes, ideally you are looking for clean voltages that are exactly at the values, but that will never happen. Like I said, I like things within 5%, I don't trust things outside of 7%. Your ranges from asus probe should be a good measure. Your values are not going to change much under system load as opposed to idle.

 

[BraveSirRobbin]

Fear of the Night:

If your system runs fine and you have no problems at all, then you may not need another supply. Have you burned in your system running some diagnostics like 3DBenchmark, Prime95, Sandra SiSoft, SuperPI (there are others out there but can?t think of any right now)?? Is your over clocked system stable?? How did you determine that??

But, since you asked the question on the benefits you MAY experience with another power supply, here is an answer:

I did a VERY quick calculation on some of your loads. I?m assuming that your lights are running off of your 12 volt rail (don?t know this for a fact):

I?m calculating/guessing the following loads on your system:

3.3v = 8 amps
5v = 22.5 amps
12v = 20 amps

Your Raidmax 350 Power Supply has the following max rail currents

3.3v = 16 amps
5v = 25 amps
12v = 14 amps

So you can see you are running into trouble with your 12 volt rail AND probably may run into trouble with your 5 volt rail if my calculations are off slightly. This is probably why your 5v and 12v values are fluctuating under load. Also keep in mind that the accuracy of those readings from MBM may be off (nothing is exactly ?calibrated? here).

So I will dare suggest that you get one of the following two options (or something closely similar). I didn?t do an exhaustive investigation of power supplies, just found these two Antec selections from the NewEgg site.

Antec SL-350 Watt Power Supply ($48) and it also has a nice dual fan set up (look around, there may be better supplies for the money)

3.3v = 28 amps
5v = 35 amps
12v = 16 amps (and you throw away your lights if they use +12 volts)

Or for more money you can get an Antec TruPower 430 Watt Supply ($82)

3.3v = 28 amps
5v = 36 amps
12v = 20 amps (advantage mainly in this rail)

Again I offer this disclaimer!!!! I did a lot of guessing on your system?s total draw using the AMD Builders Guide for Desktop/Tower Systems, Page 8, Table 5, Example #2, ?Power Worksheet for a High-Performance System? and added a little on your fans? current draw since you are using lights and also a little on the CD ROM?s draw.

Also note: I really did not want to do this, was hoping the worksheet link I provided would be used instead, because the LAST thing I need is someone saying ?I spent $82 on a power supply because you said I needed it and my voltages are still fluctuating! What a waste of money!?

BUT since you seemed to really need some help here getting started, I did this so you can at least have some numbers to play with, perhaps even get a second opinion if your funds are limited, before you make your selection. Perhaps other forums members can give their advice here, check my numbers, offer random criticism/comments/expletives, etc...

Good luck to you and I hope this helps you out. Let me know if this info was of any use to you because it did take a few minutes to compile.

BSR

 

[FearoftheNight]

Thank you very much for your help. I will read it carefully as soon as I can. I was thinking of getting a good psu for the future maybe I'm looking at a ANtec TrueBlue 480. As for my system stability I've had it Prime95 running for 12 hrs while playing warcraft 3 and winamp were also plaything. Things got slow but not crashes or anything.