It's a perfectly fair comparison in terms of the moral choice a person has to make about his behavior.
It's a perfectly fair comparison in terms of the moral choice a person has to make about his behavior.
alkemyst
No Lifer
- Feb 13, 2001
- 83,769
- 19
- 81
I have been around the whole piracy debate a loooong time (1983 and onward).
For things like Operating Systems and applications, it's been more or less debated piracy helps since in a business setting you want the applications you have at home so business pay for the software across the board.
For many they may have a copy of $600 photoshop, however they'd never ever pay for it anyway....with things like Photoshop Elements now that may open up more sales for Adobe, but if a user already has access to full-blown Photoshop then perhaps not. Thing is getting warez is pretty hard for most of the AOL type users that have a hard time even typing in URL's properly. I have directed many users when I was in college to warez sites and even having the toy box in their hands could not navigate well enough through the popups and ads to get to the programs.
Games are the same way....many actually want the box and manuals...and I am willing to bet a kid that downloads the main program now, is asking for the expansion packs for the Holidays.
If software was priced fairly it would be more of a problem for companies...however like credit card interest rates, one guy pays for the next 3 or so non-payers.
For things like Operating Systems and applications, it's been more or less debated piracy helps since in a business setting you want the applications you have at home so business pay for the software across the board.
For many they may have a copy of $600 photoshop, however they'd never ever pay for it anyway....with things like Photoshop Elements now that may open up more sales for Adobe, but if a user already has access to full-blown Photoshop then perhaps not. Thing is getting warez is pretty hard for most of the AOL type users that have a hard time even typing in URL's properly. I have directed many users when I was in college to warez sites and even having the toy box in their hands could not navigate well enough through the popups and ads to get to the programs.
Games are the same way....many actually want the box and manuals...and I am willing to bet a kid that downloads the main program now, is asking for the expansion packs for the Holidays.
If software was priced fairly it would be more of a problem for companies...however like credit card interest rates, one guy pays for the next 3 or so non-payers.
They certainly bring it upon themselves. But not with new releases. They bring it upon themselves with the classics, which they discontinue production of, leaving you with the option of either paying more than retail on eBay or downloading it. I'll download every time.
Case in point: I called Microsoft asking for a copy of MS-DOS 6.22. They didn't even know what I was talking about. I was willing to pay for it. So I went through other channels.
Case in point: I called Microsoft asking for a copy of MS-DOS 6.22. They didn't even know what I was talking about. I was willing to pay for it. So I went through other channels.
The question is, is it justifiable ? There all kinds of ways to rationalize piracy, but look up the definition of justice sometime and see if piracy has anything to do with what is right.
I'm afraid you're a bit mistaken. It takes a completely different type of person to download a game than it does to steal a car, to compare them is ridiculous. Yes, copying/downloading a game is technically illegal, but the amount of money the software companies make from us the consumers is almost criminal in itself. Thousands upon thousands of games that cost a few pounds to make, sold for £30 each. Yes, development time and money goes into making the games, but nowadays that amounts to a mere fraction of the profit a decent game makes.
I consider myself a good person, i'm nice to people, pay my taxes, and go out of my way to help people. Yet I pirate CD's, both from the music and the game industry. Why? Because both fleece consumers out of untold millions every year unchecked. They make the exscuse that a little piracy drives prices higher and higher, but that is horse-sh|t, the profits they make from such little personal expense is capitalism at it's finest, through and through. I DO pay for CD's and games, but i'd say only about 50% - 75% of them, the rest I see as my little way of getting back at those corporate giants who so grossly overcharge.
Fair enough, you stick to your life of unbending tedium, don't jaywalk, don't do anything that you're not 'supposed' to do. But don't try and compare me to a car-thief or a bank-robber, because i'll just laugh in your face, as will the rest of the normal people who do the same as me. :beer:
It's justifiable if you NEED it (OS, office suite, etc.) and cant afford it (Windows, MS Office, etc.)
or
If you want/need it (OS, games, etc.) and they make it impossible to get anymore (DOS 6.22, Raptor: Call of the Shadows, etc.)
At least IMHO. I'm sure a number of software company lawyers would disagree with a McDonalds employee needing Windows XP and Office XP to write his resume so he can get a better job so he can pay for stuff in the future, and disagree rather strongly with someone on a classic gaming binge, despite the company not selling it anymore.
I think the auto/software comparison is great!!!
As I said before, I buy what I play/use.
BUT: I'm certainly NOT going to pay for something before I have a chance to test drive the FINAL PRODUCT. I'm not going to the Honda dealer, and test driving their simulator, and then saying I want that car. I'm gonna drive the very same vehicle I may purchase. If the car doesn't work for me, I walk away. Same with software. I uninstall it, delete it, and move on.
As I said before, I buy what I play/use.
BUT: I'm certainly NOT going to pay for something before I have a chance to test drive the FINAL PRODUCT. I'm not going to the Honda dealer, and test driving their simulator, and then saying I want that car. I'm gonna drive the very same vehicle I may purchase. If the car doesn't work for me, I walk away. Same with software. I uninstall it, delete it, and move on.
Getting back to the original post...
That is a really stupid attempt at justifying pirateing a game. As others have said, play a demo (if there is one) and wait for reviews. If you choose to be an early adopter (buying the game the first day) you run the risk of getting burned because you didn't wait for any reviews. That is pretty much a given. I'm sure you can wait a week for reviews (either from friends or game sites) to start popping up. If you purchase a game from Electronics Boutique I know they have a 7 or 10 day "no questions asked" return policy. Hell, I've purcahsed games from BB on impluse, absolutely hated them, and exchanged them for another title at EB.
Lethal
That is a really stupid attempt at justifying pirateing a game. As others have said, play a demo (if there is one) and wait for reviews. If you choose to be an early adopter (buying the game the first day) you run the risk of getting burned because you didn't wait for any reviews. That is pretty much a given. I'm sure you can wait a week for reviews (either from friends or game sites) to start popping up. If you purchase a game from Electronics Boutique I know they have a 7 or 10 day "no questions asked" return policy. Hell, I've purcahsed games from BB on impluse, absolutely hated them, and exchanged them for another title at EB.
Lethal
Hmmm. I guess my local store likes to be old fashioned then.
So in comes plan B. Exchanged the open title for an unopen title then take that unopen title to another store and exchange it for another game. Lethal
The Sauce
Diamond Member
- Oct 31, 1999
- 4,741
- 34
- 91
Yes, this thread has gone completely over the top.
Guys, plain and simple - if you do not pay for the software you love, they will stop making it. Do you need any better reason than that? This is already happening on the PC and Halo is a perfect example. Piracy is much lower on the consoles so Bungie/Gearbox went to the console platform first and then put out a half-assed PC release. Profit drives productivity.
Guys, plain and simple - if you do not pay for the software you love, they will stop making it. Do you need any better reason than that? This is already happening on the PC and Halo is a perfect example. Piracy is much lower on the consoles so Bungie/Gearbox went to the console platform first and then put out a half-assed PC release. Profit drives productivity.
"Fair enough, you stick to your life of unbending tedium, don't jaywalk, don't do anything that you're not 'supposed' to do. But don't try and compare me to a car-thief or a bank-robber, because i'll just laugh in your face, as will the rest of the normal people who do the same as me."
I don't think I've compared you to anybody, that comparison involving your own behavior is something you've done inside your self.
I am talking about concepts that a person has of what is right or wrong, and the difference between doing something that one thinks is wrong and admitting it's wrong, and doing something that one thinks is wrong and then rationalizing and deciding it isn't wrong anymore.
I'm arguing against rationalization, not claiming to be a model citizen. Because I think rationalization is like lieing to oneself, which is unhealthy.
edit- and my questions about the car was an attempt to use an example of what most would consider a greater wrong that couldn't be as easily rationalized, to get people to look at the process of how thay have decided that piracy is ok.
I don't think I've compared you to anybody, that comparison involving your own behavior is something you've done inside your self.
I am talking about concepts that a person has of what is right or wrong, and the difference between doing something that one thinks is wrong and admitting it's wrong, and doing something that one thinks is wrong and then rationalizing and deciding it isn't wrong anymore.
I'm arguing against rationalization, not claiming to be a model citizen. Because I think rationalization is like lieing to oneself, which is unhealthy.
edit- and my questions about the car was an attempt to use an example of what most would consider a greater wrong that couldn't be as easily rationalized, to get people to look at the process of how thay have decided that piracy is ok.
Yep. That is what reviews are for. Very rarely will I buy a game the day it hits the shelf. It's not like I won't be able to buy it a couple days later! Whats the big rush?
OK I must have mis-read the part about comparing pirating a game to stealing a Honda...
I'm not trying to get personal here with this argument, i'm merely saying that WE ALL do things that are wrong in some way at some point in life, and it is human nature to try and rationalize it to one's self. If pirating a few CD's is the worst discrepancy i'll have to worry about in my life, than i'd say i'll have done pretty well for myself.
:beer:"i'm merely saying that WE ALL do things that are wrong in some way at some point in life, and it is human nature to try and rationalize it to one's self."
I totally agree with you.
I totally agree with you.
Hello, bad example. Halo was a Mac title untill Microsoft bought them so it could be a killer xbox title. Did you hear that? Bungie developed for the Mac!!!
YOU ARE ALL TOOLS! WHY DO YOU BRING UP THIS LAME BEATEN HORSE EVERY OTHER EFFING DAY!!!
YOU ARE ALL TOOLS! WHY DO YOU BRING UP THIS LAME BEATEN HORSE EVERY OTHER EFFING DAY!!!
YOU ARE ALL TOOLS! WHY DO YOU BRING UP THIS LAME BEATEN HORSE EVERY OTHER EFFING DAY!!!
YOU ARE ALL TOOLS! WHY DO YOU BRING UP THIS LAME BEATEN HORSE EVERY OTHER EFFING DAY!!!
YOU ARE ALL TOOLS! WHY DO YOU BRING UP THIS LAME BEATEN HORSE EVERY OTHER EFFING DAY!!!
YOU ARE ALL TOOLS! WHY DO YOU BRING UP THIS LAME BEATEN HORSE EVERY OTHER EFFING DAY!!!
YOU ARE ALL TOOLS! WHY DO YOU BRING UP THIS LAME BEATEN HORSE EVERY OTHER EFFING DAY!!!
YOU ARE ALL TOOLS! WHY DO YOU BRING UP THIS LAME BEATEN HORSE EVERY OTHER EFFING DAY!!!
YOU ARE ALL TOOLS! WHY DO YOU BRING UP THIS LAME BEATEN HORSE EVERY OTHER EFFING DAY!!!
YOU ARE ALL TOOLS! WHY DO YOU BRING UP THIS LAME BEATEN HORSE EVERY OTHER EFFING DAY!!!
YOU ARE ALL TOOLS! WHY DO YOU BRING UP THIS LAME BEATEN HORSE EVERY OTHER EFFING DAY!!!
YOU ARE ALL TOOLS! WHY DO YOU BRING UP THIS LAME BEATEN HORSE EVERY OTHER EFFING DAY!!!
YOU ARE ALL TOOLS! WHY DO YOU BRING UP THIS LAME BEATEN HORSE EVERY OTHER EFFING DAY!!!
YOU ARE ALL TOOLS! WHY DO YOU BRING UP THIS LAME BEATEN HORSE EVERY OTHER EFFING DAY!!!
YOU ARE ALL TOOLS! WHY DO YOU BRING UP THIS LAME BEATEN HORSE EVERY OTHER EFFING DAY!!!
YOU ARE ALL TOOLS! WHY DO YOU BRING UP THIS LAME BEATEN HORSE EVERY OTHER EFFING DAY!!!
YOU ARE ALL TOOLS! WHY DO YOU BRING UP THIS LAME BEATEN HORSE EVERY OTHER EFFING DAY!!!
SammySon, does your conjecture that everyone in this thread is a "tool" extend to yourself? You are, afterall, in this thread.
Well, Dimmy, some people may have not participated in a thread like this, no matter if it has been discussed before. And since a load of people HAVE participated in it, it must therefore be a topic worth discussing. If you don't like it, don't post in it, simple. You tool. lol.:beer:
Absolutly.
I'm fairly sure that most of the people in this thread have "discussed" this many times. It's as if people are cutting and pasting standard responses.
It always breaks down to morality vs legality.
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