Justice Dept. Is Said to Believe Trump Has More Documents

Page 4 - Seeking answers? Join the AnandTech community: where nearly half-a-million members share solutions and discuss the latest tech.

[DHT]Osiris

Lifer
Dec 15, 2015
15,285
13,582
146
The trouble with all arguments above is that essentially the whole thing needs to go through the SC to determine the appropriate outcome, meanwhile the US has no executive leadership. I guess the VP can take over since the President is 'incapacitated'.
 

NWRMidnight

Diamond Member
Jun 18, 2001
3,040
2,652
136
By the way, it's perfectly reasonable to say that this interpretation of the law and Constitution is wrong, I'm just telling you what would happen in reality. The people responsible for stopping that kind of outrageous conduct would be either 1) the cabinet that Trump himself appointed (good luck) or 2) Congress (lol). We both know neither would act, and therefore Trump walks.

The good news is it's pretty unlikely he'll be president again and so he can just go to prison the regular old way.
what law is that? What law says you can't charge, try, and convict a sitting President? The only thing we have is a DOJ policy, which is not law.
You did misunderstand what I said - if you had understood my post correctly you would not have thought I changed my position.

Also no, there is no requirement that the president exercise his authority through department heads, he is free to run the departments personally if he has the time and interest. In a practical sense even if that were true though it wouldn't matter as all you do is appoint apparatchiks to those posts who will carry out your every whim.
Bullshit! You completely changed your argument from directly telling a prison guard to unlock his cell and let him go home, to he can do it thru ordering the heads of the departments to do it, and if they don't comply to fire them and replace them with someone that will. That is a different argument. Regardless, you are still ignoring the fact that he doesn't have that authority over the DOJ, which the Bureau of Prisons falls under.
 
  • Like
Reactions: ivwshane

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
85,637
50,864
136
what law is that? What law says you can't charge, try, and convict a sitting President? The only thing we have is a DOJ policy, which is not law.
This is all pretty simple - Trump will order himself to be released from prison and they will do it. You can sue all you want to say he doesn't have that power under the law, to which their response will be 'eat me'. If SCOTUS rules in your favor and says Trump doesn't have that power then Trump will just direct the DOJ to not arrest him under any circumstances because DOJ interpretation of the Constitution says that's unconstitutional.

Again you may think that is wrong, but that is exactly what would happen and we all know it. The only way you get him back in prison is through the 25th amendment or impeachment, neither of which are likely for obvious reasons.
Bullshit! You completely changed your argument from directly telling a prison guard to unlock his cell and let him go home, to he can do it thru ordering the heads of the departments to do it, and if they don't comply to fire them and replace them with someone that will. That is a different argument. Regardless, you are still ignoring the fact that he doesn't have that authority over the DOJ.
No, for the second time I was simply giving your argument the most charitable possible right to show you that even if what you were saying was true it wouldn't matter and my outcome would still happen.

The president also has authority over the DOJ, it is simply a norm that he does not exercise it. This is why under Trump there were calls for laws/a constitutional amendment to remove the DOJ from presidential authority and make it an independent agency like in many states - the very real fear that Trump would abuse his control of the agency for political ends.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
85,637
50,864
136
The trouble with all arguments above is that essentially the whole thing needs to go through the SC to determine the appropriate outcome, meanwhile the US has no executive leadership. I guess the VP can take over since the President is 'incapacitated'.
In that case Vice President Marjorie Taylor Greene immediately pardons the president who then reassumes his powers. Same outcome.
 
  • Like
Reactions: [DHT]Osiris

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
85,637
50,864
136
The solution to presidential criminality is political, not legal. It's a fucked up aspect of our system that federal law enforcement is run by someone who could very well have a vested interest in federal law not being enforced correctly, but that's the way it is.

There is no set of circumstances where someone in prison wins the presidency and then stays in prison. It's a fantasy.
 

Pens1566

Lifer
Oct 11, 2005
12,284
9,113
136
The trouble with all arguments above is that essentially the whole thing needs to go through the SC to determine the appropriate outcome, meanwhile the US has no executive leadership. I guess the VP can take over since the President is 'incapacitated'.

Right. It's all virgin theoretical legal territory. No one knows what would happen, and to be sure of the outcome either way is kind of ridiculous.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
85,637
50,864
136
Right. It's all virgin theoretical legal territory. No one knows what would happen, and to be sure of the outcome either way is kind of ridiculous.
I don’t think the legal territory even matters and misses the point. The president and people he appoints run all the federal prisons. They are going to let him out on day one no matter what, and this outcome is absolutely certain.

Like, what does the alternate scenario even look like, Trump calling his new AG on the prison phone and asking to be let out but Trump’s handpicked guy for the job is like ‘wish I could Donnie, but I support the rule of law’?

Lol.
 

Pens1566

Lifer
Oct 11, 2005
12,284
9,113
136
I don’t think the legal territory even matters and misses the point. The president and people he appoints run all the federal prisons. They are going to let him out on day one no matter what, and this outcome is absolutely certain.

Like, what does the alternate scenario even look like, Trump calling his new AG on the prison phone and asking to be let out but Trump’s handpicked guy for the job is like ‘wish I could Donnie, but I support the rule of law’?

Lol.

Nothing here is certain at all. Assuming he ever even ends up incarcerated (still debatable), and is so confined on 1-20-2025, he likely won't even have his "handpicked guy" in place to do anything. While the new congress will be seated, there is no guarantee any of his appointees will be confirmed so there are only senior career staff in place at DoJ at the time. I'd suspect career folks wouldn't just throw out the rule of law in that case, and that there would be a large impact on the confirmation process of any AG nominee in that scenario.

Lol indeed.
 
  • Like
Reactions: [DHT]Osiris

[DHT]Osiris

Lifer
Dec 15, 2015
15,285
13,582
146
Nothing here is certain at all. Assuming he ever even ends up incarcerated (still debatable), and is so confined on 1-20-2025, he likely won't even have his "handpicked guy" in place to do anything. While the new congress will be seated, there is no guarantee any of his appointees will be confirmed so there are only senior career staff in place at DoJ at the time. I'd suspect career folks wouldn't just throw out the rule of law in that case, and that there would be a large impact on the confirmation process of any AG nominee in that scenario.

Lol indeed.
Plot twist, he can't afford the calls, has no skills to make income with, and conflict of interest laws prevent him from taking gifts while President.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
85,637
50,864
136
Nothing here is certain at all. Assuming he ever even ends up incarcerated (still debatable), and is so confined on 1-20-2025, he likely won't even have his "handpicked guy" in place to do anything. While the new congress will be seated, there is no guarantee any of his appointees will be confirmed so there are only senior career staff in place at DoJ at the time. I'd suspect career folks wouldn't just throw out the rule of law in that case, and that there would be a large impact on the confirmation process of any AG nominee in that scenario.

Lol indeed.
That’s not how it works.

In the absence of senate confirmed people you have acting heads, who are whoever the president wants. It would not be career folks at all. If anything the guy he would pick would be more of an apparatchik because senate confirmation wouldn’t matter.

Also it’s most likely Trump would essentially do away with senate confirmation entirely and just rely on acting department heads. I mean this already happened in the last two years of his administration. Did people forget?
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
85,637
50,864
136
Plot twist, he can't afford the calls, has no skills to make income with, and conflict of interest laws prevent him from taking gifts while President.
Yes, if there’s one thing we know it’s that conflict of interest laws constrained Trump, which is why he had to sell his hotel down the street from the White House where people routinely bribed him.
 
  • Love
Reactions: hal2kilo

JEDI

Lifer
Sep 25, 2001
29,391
2,736
126
Aileen Cannon, Trump-appointed judge, assigned initially to oversee documents case:

This is the same Trump zealot judge that made a ruling in favor of Trump last time that got over turned by appeals court, which was also majority Trump appointees. :eek:

You know it's bad when 2 Trump judges say your rulings wrong
 
  • Wow
Reactions: cytg111

Muse

Lifer
Jul 11, 2001
38,409
8,700
136
Aileen Cannon, Trump-appointed judge, assigned initially to oversee documents case:

This is the same Trump zealot judge that made a ruling in favor of Trump last time that got over turned by appeals court, which was also majority Trump appointees. :eek:

You know it's bad when 2 Trump judges say your rulings wrong
This concerns me. Aileen Cannon is such a bad idea. I don't know if that can be changed somehow. Will it come down to the JD appealing her rulings/decisions? Is all we can expect of this a bad outcome for JDT's attempt to regain the White House? :(
 

cytg111

Lifer
Mar 17, 2008
23,993
13,519
136
Aileen Cannon, Trump-appointed judge, assigned initially to oversee documents case:

This is the same Trump zealot judge that made a ruling in favor of Trump last time that got over turned by appeals court, which was also majority Trump appointees. :eek:

You know it's bad when 2 Trump judges say your rulings wrong
How the fuck did she get assigned to that case? She was like the worst embarrassment last Trump case she presided over… She’s like a Clarence light.
 

eelw

Diamond Member
Dec 4, 1999
9,797
4,983
136
How the fuck did she get assigned to that case? She was like the worst embarrassment last Trump case she presided over… She’s like a Clarence light.
Yes there are like 20 Florida federal judges. But the district where Mar A Lago is, it’s 3 judges. So good chance it was her.

While I doubt they can immediately request she recuses herself, the other higher courts are watching her. So the slightest she attempts to cross a line, hope they are there to boot her
 
  • Like
Reactions: cytg111

sportage

Lifer
Feb 1, 2008
11,492
3,161
136
Wait and see....
The huge flaw in their plan is #1 being assured Trump will be elected in 2024, #2 that whomever is elected would pardon Trump. If Biden is reelected then Trump is screwed. I don't think Trump will risk it. Like I said before, when the jury is down to decision making Trump will cut a deal. Trump will have to weigh the risks of prison time vs being comfortable knowing the can never run for president again.

I think it hilarious that Trump thinks he will be the next president. Its delusional. Nor will DeSantis or any republican in 2024. Abortion will be the deciding factor and women are still mad about republicans running their reproductive lives. Plus the attack on trans. And the books. If Biden can still open his eyes and comb his hair, he will be reelected. There are not enough Karen's nor maga on earth to win this next election.
 
  • Like
Reactions: hal2kilo and Leeea

eelw

Diamond Member
Dec 4, 1999
9,797
4,983
136
Wait and see....
The huge flaw in their plan is #1 being assured Trump will be elected in 2024, #2 that whomever is elected would pardon Trump. If Biden is reelected then Trump is screwed. I don't think Trump will risk it. Like I said before, when the jury is down to decision making Trump will cut a deal. Trump will have to weigh the risks of prison time vs being comfortable knowing the can never run for president again.

I think it hilarious that Trump thinks he will be the next president. Its delusional. Nor will DeSantis or any republican in 2024. Abortion will be the deciding factor and women are still mad about republicans running their reproductive lives. Plus the attack on trans. And the books. If Biden can still open his eyes and comb his hair, he will be reelected. There are not enough Karen's nor maga on earth to win this next election.
Come on, a drooling Biden better than anything thr Repugnicans can offer
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
85,637
50,864
136
Wait and see....
The huge flaw in their plan is #1 being assured Trump will be elected in 2024, #2 that whomever is elected would pardon Trump. If Biden is reelected then Trump is screwed. I don't think Trump will risk it. Like I said before, when the jury is down to decision making Trump will cut a deal. Trump will have to weigh the risks of prison time vs being comfortable knowing the can never run for president again.

I think it hilarious that Trump thinks he will be the next president. Its delusional. Nor will DeSantis or any republican in 2024. Abortion will be the deciding factor and women are still mad about republicans running their reproductive lives. Plus the attack on trans. And the books. If Biden can still open his eyes and comb his hair, he will be reelected. There are not enough Karen's nor maga on earth to win this next election.
I think Trump will cut a deal with the eventual Republican nominee where Trump won’t sabotage their campaign and they agree to pardon Trump.
 

eelw

Diamond Member
Dec 4, 1999
9,797
4,983
136
He’d never kiss someone else’s butt. He’d rather flee the country rather than trust someone else
 

HomerJS

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
36,735
28,908
136
The Pub nominee would never admit to a deal pardoning Trump.

Reporters should ask if the candidate will go under oath promising never to pardon Trump
 

Fenixgoon

Lifer
Jun 30, 2003
32,120
10,946
136
The Pub nominee would never admit to a deal pardoning Trump.

Reporters should ask if the candidate will go under oath promising never to pardon Trump
and what would be the consequences if they lie? ......i'm afraid the answer to that is likely to be "not a damn thing"
 
  • Like
Reactions: cytg111

HomerJS

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
36,735
28,908
136
Good point. I’m 3 ginger lime martinis and a cigar in.

I’ll have a better idea when I sober up
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: cytg111

sportage

Lifer
Feb 1, 2008
11,492
3,161
136
Personally I expect the worst out of Judge Aileen Cannon. There is a lot she could do to screw things up and interfere with holding Trump accountable. And to think that she has learned her lesson is nonsense. Or to think she really cares about what people will say when she simply rules Donald Trump not guilty regardless of what the jury decided. And such a ruling from Aileen Cannon can not be challenged by the DA. It's final.

Just think back to Mitch McConnell and Obama and Merrick Garland. McConnell never flinched as he denied Obama his presidential rights. McConnell actually gloated about stopping Obama from installing a justice on the hight court. Does anyone think that Aileen Cannon will be any different? If she has the chance to screw the process and set Trump free from accountability, she will. And like with Mitch McConnell, Judge Aileen Cannon will not flinch while doing that.