Justice argues that barring public "camping" by the homeless is unconstitutional

[shira]

I agree with Justice on this one.

Suppose you're a homeless person and there's no space in homeless shelters. So you're forced to live on the street. You clearly can't "camp" on private property; so you're only recourse is to sleep on public property. But many cities have passed ordinances making it illegal to sleep/camp in places, effectively making it illegal to be homeless.

That seems pretty outrageous to me: It's illegal to be so poor that you have nowhere to stay but public places. And that's pretty much what the Justice Department is arguing, saying that such laws are a violation of the Eighth Amendment's protections against cruel and unusual punishment.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...ide-the-federal-government-says/?tid=pm_pop_b

When adequate shelter space exists, individuals have a choice about whether or not to sleep in public. However, when adequate shelter space does not exist, there is no meaningful distinction between the status of being homeless and the conduct of sleeping in public. Sleeping is a life-sustaining activity — i.e., it must occur at some time in some place. If a person literally has nowhere else to go, then enforcement of the anti-camping ordinance against that person criminalizes her for being homeless.
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According to a NLCHP [National Law Center on Homelessness & Poverty] report last year that surveyed 187 cities between 2011 and 2014, 34 percent had citywide laws banning camping in public. Another 43 percent prohibited sleeping in vehicles, and 53 percent banned sitting or lying down in certain public places. All of these laws criminalize the kind of activities — sitting, resting, sleeping — that are arguably fundamental to human existence.

And they've criminalized that behavior in an environment where most cities have far more homeless than shelter beds. In 2014, the federal government estimates, there were about 153,000 unsheltered homeless on the street in the U.S. on any given night.

Laws like these have grown more common as that math has actually grown worse since the recession.

 

[brycejones]

Sounds like a commie plot to take over public property. The homeless just need to find their bootstraps.

 

[Victorian Gray]

Sounds like a commie plot to take over public property. The homeless just need to find their bootstraps.

Hey buddy! Got some spare change for some boots?

 

[TheGardener]

Well if I'm ever homeless, I'd prefer to sleep out in a sunny California upscale community with a beachfront. Just have to make sure that I watch out for the tide coming in.

 

[Attic]

Well if I'm ever homeless, I'd prefer to sleep out in a sunny California upscale community with a beachfront. Just have to make sure that I watch out for the tide coming in.

If that ever happens, god forbid, you'll have to fight for your place.

My last walk along Ocean avenue in Santa Monica, I stopped counting after 100.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

I don't get any joy saying this. Homelessness (long term) is due to drinking and/or drug use that is completely out of control or mental health. Think about it you have no friends or family to stay with or have all those bridges been burned? We need to have treatment and a path forward when someone is ready to change if they do not want to change we shouldn't enable the behavior by allowing someone to camp out indefinitely on public land.

 

[nakedfrog]

I don't get any joy saying this. Homelessness (long term) is due to drinking and/or drug use that is completely out of control or mental health. Think about it you have no friends or family to stay with or have all those bridges been burned? We need to have treatment and a path forward when someone is ready to change if they do not want to change we shouldn't enable the behavior by allowing someone to camp out indefinitely on public land.

Sooooo... what's the solution then? Lock 'em up?

 

[Fanatical Meat]

Have treatment available and make living outside uncomfortable when they are ready they'll come in and we should all do our best to make them welcome.
There is no answer to help someone who does not want help.

 

[Blanky]

 

[TheGardener]

Sooooo... what's the solution then? Lock 'em up?

What's your solution for the guy who lost the ability to walk on the beach in his hometown? More marijuana drug dispensaries?

 

[hal2kilo]

I agree with Justice on this one.

Suppose you're a homeless person and there's no space in homeless shelters. So you're forced to live on the street. You clearly can't "camp" on private property; so you're only recourse is to sleep on public property. But many cities have passed ordinances making it illegal to sleep/camp in places, effectively making it illegal to be homeless.

That seems pretty outrageous to me: It's illegal to be so poor that you have nowhere to stay but public places. And that's pretty much what the Justice Department is arguing, saying that such laws are a violation of the Eighth Amendment's protections against cruel and unusual punishment.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...ide-the-federal-government-says/?tid=pm_pop_b

So is that justice going to sign up to be that first in his neighborhood to have a homeless camp behind his house?

 

[Sinsear]

Round em up and send em to hawaii; they'll never be cold and can camp on the beach. Homeless life of luxury.

 

[brycejones]

So is that justice going to sign up to be that first in his neighborhood to have a homeless camp behind his house?

Not a Justice, the Justice Department is taking a position.

 

[fskimospy]

I don't get any joy saying this. Homelessness (long term) is due to drinking and/or drug use that is completely out of control or mental health. Think about it you have no friends or family to stay with or have all those bridges been burned? We need to have treatment and a path forward when someone is ready to change if they do not want to change we shouldn't enable the behavior by allowing someone to camp out indefinitely on public land.

It is unconstitutional to make a law that someone can not avoid breaking. If there is insufficient housing available for homeless people then any law prohibiting sleeping outside or being homeless is faically illegal.

 

[brycejones]

Sooooo... what's the solution then? Lock 'em up?

Don't we already do that for petty crimes repeatedly? We're more willing to spend resources on jailing the homeless and mentally ill than we are on programs to reduce the problem in the first place.

 

[michal1980]

Sounds like a commie plot to take over public property. The homeless just need to find their bootstraps.

Hey buddy! Got some spare change for some boots?

lets just give them a handout.

 

[brycejones]

lets just give them a handout.

See more boot straps.

 

[JSt0rm]

Well if I'm ever homeless, I'd prefer to sleep out in a sunny California upscale community with a beachfront. Just have to make sure that I watch out for the tide coming in.

Oh you arent the only one.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

It is unconstitutional to make a law that someone can not avoid breaking. If there is insufficient housing available for homeless people then any law prohibiting sleeping outside or being homeless is faically illegal.

How about the park closes at 9pm you can't camp here or no laying down on the sidewalk or no pan handling or no shouting and making a scene or no public intoxication?
Homelessness is a problem I don't know the solution but I am sure it doesn't involve camping on public grounds.

 

[JSt0rm]

How about the park closes at 9pm you can't camp here or no laying down on the sidewalk or no pan handling or no shouting and making a scene or no public intoxication?
Homelessness is a problem I don't know the solution but I am sure it doesn't involve camping on public grounds.

Id rather they be in the park then my property taxes going up to house them in the jails.

 

[Darwin333]

43 percent prohibit sleeping in vehicles? What the hell for?

 

[Darwin333]

How about the park closes at 9pm you can't camp here or no laying down on the sidewalk or no pan handling or no shouting and making a scene or no public intoxication?
Homelessness is a problem I don't know the solution but I am sure it doesn't involve camping on public grounds.

So they should camp on private grounds, like your front yard, instead? I assume your answer will be no so exactly where are they supposed to go?

 

[michal1980]

See more boot straps.

see more handouts.

 

[Darwin333]

I don't get any joy saying this. Homelessness (long term) is due to drinking and/or drug use that is completely out of control or mental health. Think about it you have no friends or family to stay with or have all those bridges been burned? We need to have treatment and a path forward when someone is ready to change if they do not want to change we shouldn't enable the behavior by allowing someone to camp out indefinitely on public land.

You know that a very large portion of the homeless community are vets right? You are arguing that the very people that fought for your rights, and in the process got all messed up in the head, shouldn't have the right to sleep on public grounds as an absolute last resort.... in the country they went to war to defend....

Yes we should have better services to help them out but until then I'm going with "they have the right to live" approach and sleeping is a necessity of life.

 

[fskimospy]

How about the park closes at 9pm you can't camp here or no laying down on the sidewalk or no pan handling or no shouting and making a scene or no public intoxication?
Homelessness is a problem I don't know the solution but I am sure it doesn't involve camping on public grounds.

So where should they camp?