Just WHAT was Intel thinking?

[bupkus]

MUSHKIN
128MB SAMSUNG 800mhz RAMBUS............................ $ 595
128Mb Mushkin High Performance REV 3 222* JUST RELEASED $ 133


MEMMAN
128MB DDR MemMan PC2100 DDR DIMM (Tested in IWill KA266-R motherboards) (16X64DDR)... 199.00
128MB DDR Corsair PC2100 DDR DIMM (Tested in IWill KA266-R motherboards) (CM16X64DDR) 237.00
128MB ECC Memman Rambus 800MHz ECC (APRD128800)...................................... 325.00

Just WHAT was Intel thinking?:disgust:

 

[Vegito]

who knows.. even they admit to the mistake a few weeks ago..

 

[BurntKooshie]

The P4 was designed for RAMBUS. If you want to understand why, I suggest you head to the technical forums at aceshardware, and take a read.

They admitted to the mistake of making deals with RAMBUS the company, NOT the technology. RAMBUS + i820, and even i840, sucks. RAMBUS plus the i850 is pretty much what allows the P4 to work "as well as it does". If it were stuck with SDRAM, or even DDR, the P4 wouldn't be as "good" as it is.

 

[bupkus]

<< If it were stuck with SDRAM, or even DDR, the P4 wouldn't be as &quot;good&quot; as it is. >>



That makes me wonder... if the P4 had been designed to work with DDR, would it be faster today and tomorrow?

 

[Vegito]

yeah, it's pretty much the greedy people at rambus, the technology has potentials... didnt' they have like a quad pump also or something that has 10gb bandwidth ? I'm pretty sure rambus has the knowledge to make good products but their marketing strategy to rip people off isn't working for me..

 

[Rigoletto]

Engineers are working on dual channel DDR which should kick even P4 RAMBUS ass,

 

[BurntKooshie]

they could do dual channel DDR right now. One problem: That's another 128bit channel you have to make on the motherboard. While RAMBUS requires only 16 bits per channel. Yes, they are more difficult to design because of signal noise etc, but adding another 128bit wide channel takes up a lot of space, MANY more pins (a major expense), and because there are so many wires, often requires more PCB layers. With dual channel DDR, and SMP Athlons, kiss 4layer PCB boards goodbye. Dual channel SDRAM has already been done in the server markets. But its stayed there, because its expensive.

And, before I am called an Intel zealot for defending their decisions, it should be noted that I've owned 2 Cyrix based systems (yes, I'm poor), I have an AMD Thunderbird 700 right now, and had an intel 486sx 33 &quot;back in the day&quot;. The only things I've not had are NeXGen CPU's (because they are really, really tough to find, though technically K6's are nearly all NeXGen designs), nor Winchips (i'm not THAT poor ).

<< Engineers are working on dual channel DDR which should kick even P4 RAMBUS ass,
>>

Maybe....but at what cost, as I already discussed?

 

[pm]

Who is doing a 4 layer PCB with Rambus? The i820 reference design is 6 layers and the i840 reference design is 8 layers. I'm not sure about the i850, but are you sure there are 4 layer PCB RDRAM motherboard designs available?

Also, the original poster somewhat exaggerated the problem. PC800 128MB RDRAM's are cheaper than was indicated. There are several suppliers on pricewatch selling 128MB PC800 RDRAM for less than $300 - several are selling these for less than equivalent PC2100 DDR-SDRAM DIMMs. Some of these resellers had pretty poor resellerratings.com ratings, but still my point is that RDRAM is cheaper than the $600 price might make you think.

I don't know what Intel was thinking - nobody asked my opinion.

[edit] fixed a typo that Burnt pointed out where I mixed up my RDRAM's and SDRAM's.

 

[BurntKooshie]

PM - I admit to not knowing exactly how many layers each board had.

I said 4 layers because that's what most KX133 and KT133 chipset boards use, and I don't think they understand the complexity with which motherboards increase due to additional traces (heck, I don't understand the exact correlation, but what I do know is that one exists, and that adding more traces, often means more layers of PCB).



<< 128 PC800 SDRAM >>

I think you meant RDRAM....

Though I might not like RAMBUS as a compnay, I do respect their technology, especially if its given proper hardware (can anyone say 21364 and 21464, with 8 RDRAM channels?). I think I might be a minority here...even among the more tech savvy.

 

[pm]

I agree with your point more wires usually means more layers, I'm just not sure that dual-channel DDR-SDRAM motherboards will be that much more expensive than dual-channel RDRAM motherboards (like the i840, i850). The noise restrictions on RDRAM boards require a lot of layers.

 

[BurntKooshie]

Hymmmm....well, you know better than I . I can just see people now though, thinking that Dual Socket A boards with dual channel DDR will be affordable for their &quot;cheap dual duron&quot; systems. Perhaps a dual DDR solution costs as much as a dual RDRAM solution (I'm speaking only about the motherboards, not about the prices of the processors, etc), but once you add in the fact that EV6 is point-to-point and requires many more wires than a shared bus....I don't think people will be too happy then.

I know it's not the same as the P4 isn't SMP capable (at least, the chipset isn't...), but when Foster comes out, dual CPU, with dual channel RDRAM, the Intel based boards will be cheaper than the (AMD) E6 boards (at least in terms of costs)....

I think I'm just frustrated by people making wild claims....

 

[R0b0tN1k]

RDRAM has lots of potential, but it's a new technology in the PC market. Give it time, kids, and it will shine. DDR is just a bandaid solution to an aging memory technology.