Just set up an i3 2100 rig

Page 3 - Seeking answers? Join the AnandTech community: where nearly half-a-million members share solutions and discuss the latest tech.

skipsneeky2

Diamond Member
May 21, 2011
5,035
1
71
stock speed i3-2100 benches are absolutely fine on BF3 with a high end GPU. 2500k with both clock speed advantages and 2 extra cores usually only show like 2FPS better.

BF3 is a really bad example of a game that "needs" a quad.
It's actually an excellent example of where an overclocked 2C / 4T is the perfect choice. It's such a GPU bound game that an i3 @ 4.5 GHz would play the game perfectly and spending on a 2500k would just be wasted money (for that particular game) if a SB OCable dual were available.

Show me some multiplayer charts where a dual core WITHOUT HT is even close to acceptabable cause my experience it is not...

Not the fake ass singleplayer charts which are correct but 64 player server charts...include the i3 2100 perhaps with a gtx580 or 6990 like one swedish site did..few sites include a i3 in their charts .

I don't doubt the i3 as a performer but when you go ultra and add in a pair of cards how does it stack up against a 2500k?
 

janas19

Platinum Member
Nov 10, 2011
2,313
1
0
Show me some multiplayer charts where a dual core WITHOUT HT is even close to acceptabable cause my experience it is not...

Not the fake ass singleplayer charts which are correct but 64 player server charts...include the i3 2100 perhaps with a gtx580 or 6990 like one swedish site did..few sites include a i3 in their charts .

I don't doubt the i3 as a performer but when you go ultra and add in a pair of cards how does it stack up against a 2500k?

Ok. Point taken.

So far as I'm aware, there are only two modern games where having only two cores causes problems: BF3 and Skyrim. That's number is sure to only increase in the coming year, but at any rate, to say that a lot of games need quad-core CPUs is an exaggeration. You could still have a decent gaming rig that is dual-core IMO.

From what I've heard, playing higher settings on BF3 would require a bigger gfx card, increasing to a 2500k won't change things much.
 

toyota

Lifer
Apr 15, 2001
12,957
1
0
Ok. Point taken.

So far as I'm aware, there are only two modern games where having only two cores causes problems: BF3 and Skyrim. That's number is sure to only increase in the coming year, but at any rate, to say that a lot of games need quad-core CPUs is an exaggeration. You could still have a decent gaming rig that is dual-core IMO.

From what I've heard, playing higher settings on BF3 would require a bigger gfx card, increasing to a 2500k won't change things much.
um what? Skyrim only effectively uses 2 cores.

so that means you think there are basically no games that need 4 cores for best playability or have a big increase over dual cores? there are quite a few such as Ghostbusters, Prototype, GTA 4, Red Faction Guerrilla, Red Faction Armageddon, Splinter Cell Conviction, Crysis 2, F1 2010, F1 2011 and Bad Company 2.

and even games that only need 2 cores are faster just in general on newer quads such as i5 2500 because of the better architecture.
 
Last edited:

Concillian

Diamond Member
May 26, 2004
3,751
8
81
show me some multi player benchmarks that show that.

How do you repeatably test in a multiplayer setting? Any multiplayer benchmarks would be picked apart by anyone with half a brain and a "feeling" for what they "should" or "shouldn't" show. There are a few youtube videos of CPU usage during 64 player battles and such, you can draw educated conclusions.

Take a look at CPU usage on a quad core CPU while actually playing. It's not actually that high. There will be small drops compared to a quad on the 2100, but I'm pretty confident there wouldn't be if it were OCed like you can OC the quads. You look at CPU utilization of a 2500k or 2600k at 4.5GHz during large matches and it doesn't exceed 50%.

There are plenty of games that could be argued, but BF3 is just not a very good example, IMO. Most of the games that show a real advantage for quads are single player RTS style games (Shogun style) and poorly coded console ports that PC gamers shouldn't be buying just on principle so developers can't make money by just throwing a PC version (that sucks) out there.
 
Last edited:

toyota

Lifer
Apr 15, 2001
12,957
1
0
How do you repeatably test in a multiplayer setting? Any multiplayer benchmarks would be picked apart by anyone with half a brain and a "feeling" for what they "should" or "shouldn't" show.

Take a look at CPU usage on a quad core CPU while actually playing. It's not actually that high. There will be small drops compared to a quad on the 2100, but I'm pretty confident there wouldn't be if it were OCed like you can OC the quads. You look at CPU utilization of a 2500k or 2600k at 4.5GHz during play and it doesn't exceed 50%.
you have no idea what you are talking about. the fact that you just lumped the 2500k and 2600k together proves that. a 2600k as 8 threads and even that goes over 50% at times in multi. the 2500k only has 4 threads and it is most certainly close to 100% quite a bit in multi.
 

Concillian

Diamond Member
May 26, 2004
3,751
8
81
you have no idea what you are talking about. the fact that you just lumped the 2500k and 2600k together proves that. a 2600k as 8 threads and even that goes over 50% at times in multi. the 2500k only has 4 threads and it is most certainly close to 100% quite a bit in multi.

Wat? You have a 2500k, have you ever actually watched your own CPU usage? I think you're just pulling stuff from your butt here.

2600k and 2500k rarely show more than 3% difference in games in the real world.
 

toyota

Lifer
Apr 15, 2001
12,957
1
0
Wat? You have a 2500k, have you ever actually watched your own CPU usage? I think you're just pulling stuff from your butt here.

2600k and 2500k rarely show more than 3% difference in games in the real world.
yes I know there is little to no difference in games. can you not understand though that if the 2600k was at 50% cpu usage that the 2500k would be at basically 100% for the same spot?
 
Last edited:

janas19

Platinum Member
Nov 10, 2011
2,313
1
0
um what? Skyrim only effectively uses 2 cores.

If that is the case - and it may well be, I don't have any first hand experience atm- then I am being fed misinformation because people on this forum have definitely said, Skyrim is a much more CPU intense game than BF3, due to all the "real world" physics and AI calculations which the game's engine makes. People have said Skyrim needs four cores way more than BF3.
 

janas19

Platinum Member
Nov 10, 2011
2,313
1
0
so that means you think there are basically no games that need 4 cores for best playability or have a big increase over dual cores? there are quite a few such as Ghostbusters, Prototype, GTA 4, Red Faction Guerrilla, Red Faction Armageddon, Splinter Cell Conviction, Crysis 2, F1 2010, F1 2011 and Bad Company 2.

I didn't say that having quad-cores doesn't increase playability on those games, I said that the only two games I'm aware of that cannot be played well on two cores are BF3 and Skyrim...
 

toyota

Lifer
Apr 15, 2001
12,957
1
0
If that is the case - and it may well be, I don't have any first hand experience atm- then I am being fed misinformation because people on this forum have definitely said, Skyrim is a much more CPU intense game than BF3, due to all the "real world" physics and AI calculations which the game's engine makes. People have said Skyrim needs four cores way more than BF3.
Skyrim is cpu intensive but it needs cpu speed and a good architecture like Sandy Bridge but having more cores than 2 in that game does nearly nothing.


http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/skyrim-performance-benchmark,3074-9.html

Skyrim doesn’t appear to be optimized for more than two threads.
 
Mar 10, 2006
11,715
2,012
126
That's pretty lousy that Skyrim doesn't scale to high numbers of HW threads. You'd think an RPG would be absolutely well suited for that.
 

Fefster

Member
Jun 19, 2011
72
0
0
There are plenty of games that could be argued, but BF3 is just not a very good example, IMO.

No,BF3 MP is easily one of the most cpu demanding games out there.While i completely agree that running an i3 will give you a good gameplay experience(that's exactly what i'm getting) switching to an i5 will give you much better performance,especially at lower settings and in multi-gpu configurations.Look at this MP benchmark:http://www.sweclockers.com/image/diagram/2507?k=ce91bc9f6c6266a1792efe936c92f2d4 and http://www.sweclockers.com/image/diagram/2506?k=142b45af179c625ccd8f53fea7385155.You can even see an i7 975 beating the 2500k thanks to its multithreading capabilities.That doesn't happen in any other game.Ever.
 

Concillian

Diamond Member
May 26, 2004
3,751
8
81
If that is the case - and it may well be, I don't have any first hand experience atm- then I am being fed misinformation because people on this forum have definitely said, Skyrim is a much more CPU intense game than BF3, due to all the "real world" physics and AI calculations which the game's engine makes. People have said Skyrim needs four cores way more than BF3.

Skyrim core testing has shown that the engine can only actually use 2 cores, whoever told you quads are for Skyrim is someone you should not listen to again.
 

12andy

Member
Jan 20, 2011
194
0
0
For my 6850-CF setup, my PII X4 940 is pegged at 100%, with GPU-usage around the 85% mark. Been playing 64-player servers lately for testing

I know I'm CPU-bottlenecked, but the game is still very playable with most settings at medium (and still looks great to boot).
 

Concillian

Diamond Member
May 26, 2004
3,751
8
81
yes I know there is little to no difference in games. can you not understand though that if the 2600k was at 50% cpu usage that the 2500k would be at basically 100% for the same spot?

Your logic fails. 2600k and 2500k are virtually the same CPU. Why would a 2600k at 50% mean a 2500k would be at 100%? At most it would be ~30% higher (50% * 1.3 is 65%) as HT cores do not give full performance benefit of a real core, only ~30% or so in scenarios where they are well utilized.
 
Last edited:

Concillian

Diamond Member
May 26, 2004
3,751
8
81
No,BF3 MP is easily one of the most cpu demanding games out there.While i completely agree that running an i3 will give you a good gameplay experience(that's exactly what i'm getting) switching to an i5 will give you much better performance,especially at lower settings and in multi-gpu configurations.Look at this MP benchmark:http://www.sweclockers.com/image/diagram/2507?k=ce91bc9f6c6266a1792efe936c92f2d4 and http://www.sweclockers.com/image/diagram/2506?k=142b45af179c625ccd8f53fea7385155.You can even see an i7 975 beating the 2500k thanks to its multithreading capabilities.That doesn't happen in any other game.Ever.

In the first link, it's obviously mostly GPU limited. However, removing the GPU limitation doesn't really change the situation. It exposes which CPUs perform better, but in this case, they're all (except the x2, obviously) giving enough performance for a smooth playable experience.

That's the thing about games, there is effectively a limit at which more CPU buys NOTHING. Once you reach that point, a faster CPU is of no use but lightening your wallet.

My own personal experience is that I don't really notice a difference until FPS minimums get to around 35-40 FPS, and it doesn't become really annoying until down closer to 30 FPS. With those CPUs showing 50+ FPS minimums, there's quite a bit of margin to be eaten by the "multiplayer tax" to get to the point where a CPU is actually limiting the user experience.

What you can take from those graphs is that it's fairly easy to get a CPU that's fast enough to play the game perfectly. You can get it from a few fast cores or lots of slow cores. This demonstrates a game that is flexible to end user hardware and the game is realistically not very CPU intensive, or there'd be more hardware struggling to get 30 and 40 FPS minimums. Obviously, the game prefers lots of fast cores, but that has it's own downside ($$$).

Remember, the original post that set this all off was about how BF3 "needs" a quad, I still think there is little to no evidence of that. Only the Phenom x2 is showing poor performance in the benchmarks shown, and that is not in the same class as a SB 2C/4T.

I don't think the 2100 is perfect for BF3, and I don't think anyone ever said it performed as well as a 2500k. My position was that an OCable SB dual + HT would be enough to play the game perfectly (from an end user experience standpoint) though... that would be significantly faster than a 2100 due to the ~50% higher clocks the OC would open up. Think about the total performance compared to a stock 2500k... BF3 benefits from HT, that's a significant bump in performance per core over the 2500k. OCed clocks are ~40% or so higher than stock 2500k clocks. An OCable dual would end up at close to 90% of the power of a stock 2500k, which is enough to be perfect in most games. When you have many games that will load 2 cores lighter than another 2 cores (BF3 doesn't appear to be one of those games), you could potentially have one that actually performed faster than a stock 2500k in a game that favors quads. That would be enough for the vast majority of gamers, even pretty serious gamers.

Someone with a 2600k should disable 2 cores and bump their OC up a bit, as disabling cores will most likely allow a couple hundred additional MHz on any given OC, just to check out just where we'd be with an OCable i3. I'm willing to bet that the experience in BF3 would be just as good as with all 4 cores enabled (meaning minimum FPS would be high enough that you would only be able to tell the difference with benchmarks).
 
Last edited:

skipsneeky2

Diamond Member
May 21, 2011
5,035
1
71
For my 6850-CF setup, my PII X4 940 is pegged at 100%, with GPU-usage around the 85% mark. Been playing 64-player servers lately for testing

I know I'm CPU-bottlenecked, but the game is still very playable with most settings at medium (and still looks great to boot).

This post for future reference is why i will choose a 1090t over a quad .

Had about enough 100% cpu pinging with my dual coreD:
 

Fefster

Member
Jun 19, 2011
72
0
0
My position was that an OCable SB dual + HT would be enough to play the game perfectly (from an end user experience standpoint) though... that would be significantly faster than a 2100 due to the ~50% higher clocks the OC would open up.

I completely agree with this point.A k version of the 2120 would be extremely popular and value-wise would become the best gaming cpu.
 

toyota

Lifer
Apr 15, 2001
12,957
1
0
Your logic fails. 2600k and 2500k are virtually the same CPU. Why would a 2600k at 50% mean a 2500k would be at 100%? At most it would be ~30% higher (50% * 1.3 is 65%) as HT cores do not give full performance benefit of a real core, only ~30% or so in scenarios where they are well utilized.
lol, NO. you keep confusing performance with cpu usage.
 
Last edited:

Todd33

Diamond Member
Oct 16, 2003
7,842
2
81
Would a i3-2100 be a good replacement for a E8400? No over-clocking, paired with my ATI 6850. I was figuring that faster bus, HT and Sandy bridge architecture would be a cheap but measurable upgrade? Am I wrong, should I hold out for a i5 or i7? this is my HTPC, so I'd like to make it more quiet than it is now.
 

12andy

Member
Jan 20, 2011
194
0
0
Would a i3-2100 be a good replacement for a E8400? No over-clocking, paired with my ATI 6850. I was figuring that faster bus, HT and Sandy bridge architecture would be a cheap but measurable upgrade? Am I wrong, should I hold out for a i5 or i7? this is my HTPC, so I'd like to make it more quiet than it is now.

I'd consider the i3 the perfect candidate for a silenced setup. :)

I'd imagine you'd really only notice the difference if you do things that can take advantage of and/ or require 4+ threads, though.
 

Todd33

Diamond Member
Oct 16, 2003
7,842
2
81
I'd consider the i3 the perfect candidate for a silenced setup. :)

I'd imagine you'd really only notice the difference if you do things that can take advantage of and/ or require 4+ threads, though.

I've been playing Skyrim and just got Batman AC, so I imagine they would like more CPU. I also had a thought, my kids desktop is a i5 2300 or something, if it is socket 1155, I should be able to drop the i3 into it and steal the i5 for my HTPC right?
 

GoStumpy

Golden Member
Sep 14, 2011
1,211
11
81
It's a perfect pairing to a HD6850. My CPU usage is 85-90% in 64 player maps, and my GPU is pegged at 99% the entire time... A little more GPU and I think the CPU might be maxxed too :) Maybe a 6870 GPU if you can afford it? I wish I got that one....
 

12andy

Member
Jan 20, 2011
194
0
0
I've been playing Skyrim and just got Batman AC, so I imagine they would like more CPU. I also had a thought, my kids desktop is a i5 2300 or something, if it is socket 1155, I should be able to drop the i3 into it and steal the i5 for my HTPC right?

Go for it, Todd. ;) :thumbsup: