Just released, Raspberry Pi 2, x6 faster and Quad core, still $35, (IoT)Win10

SOFTengCOMPelec

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(Internet Of Things‎)Win10

lohan_team_pi_2_teaser_small.jpg


http://www.anandtech.com/show/8953/raspberry-pi-2-available-armv7-and-windows-10

For $35, with its big speed jump and quad core (was single core), I can imagine all sorts of min-PC applications for it. It is still missing things like Sata ports, but seems to be a complete mini-motherboard/cpu/igpu with memory (1 gig, fine for Linux and gentle uses).

Its low purchase cost, tiny power consumption and the fact that I can connect general IO stuff directly to it (Electronics), makes it very tempting, and all for less than some upmarket heatsink/fans for an Intel cpu.

Pen (USB) and similar tiny flash drives (SD cards) are becoming so cheap and high capacity, that they could act as a kind of HDD substitute.
 
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SOFTengCOMPelec

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Repost

Sorry!. I extensively checked the cpu/overclocking for a similar thread.

I put it in cpus, because it is one of the arm cpu solutions.
 

SOFTengCOMPelec

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Kinda wanted a pi with an amd Mullins apu. The current soc isn't bad though.

Yes, having the x86 would still help, as it would potentially have more software available for it, especially games.
The AMD AM1 platform is very tempting for mini-ITX solutions, anyway.
 

monstercameron

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Yes, having the x86 would still help, as it would potentially have more software available for it, especially games.

The AMD AM1 platform is very tempting for mini-ITX solutions, anyway.


We are talking about a sub 5w credit card sized computer, not the giant mini itx

But the gpu on the pi is open sauce so I can't complain.
 

Qwertilot

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Well if you must have a tiny AMD based computer, there seems to be this coming: http://www.fit-pc.com/web/products/fitlet/

Also due in a mint branded version, which is a very solid Linux distro. Looks pretty tiny ;)

The RPi is a bit of a different beast of course :) It'll happily run what it needs to. Probably rather better than an x86 would actually, given how much got developed for the RPi1.
 

monstercameron

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Well if you must have a tiny AMD based computer, there seems to be this coming: http://www.fit-pc.com/web/products/fitlet/

Also due in a mint branded version, which is a very solid Linux distro. Looks pretty tiny ;)

The RPi is a bit of a different beast of course :) It'll happily run what it needs to. Probably rather better than an x86 would actually, given how much got developed for the RPi1.


I know of it and will try to get one in feb when they release em, ama try for the dual core Mullins. Yeah rpihas create a large legacy I'm very little time.
 

erunion

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Sorry. I prepared the thread in a hurry, to avoid someone else beating me to it.
I've corrected the title.
I'm more interested in the Linux options, so I did not read about the Win10 details.

Didn't mean for that to be a correction, just adding information.

I would add more but as far as I know MS hasn't revealed anything about win10 IoT yet.

WinRT is dead, wont upgrade to win10.
Windows (phone) 10 might run on pi, but it hasn't supported anything other than Qualcomm processors in the past. plus its touch only, so not a good fit.

So we'll see what IoT is.
 

SOFTengCOMPelec

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Didn't mean for that to be a correction, just adding information.

I would add more but as far as I know MS hasn't revealed anything about win10 IoT yet.

WinRT is dead, wont upgrade to win10.
Windows (phone) 10 might run on pi, but it hasn't supported anything other than Qualcomm processors in the past. plus its touch only, so not a good fit.

So we'll see what IoT is.

I think what is probably going on is that Microsoft is worried about Linux taking off too much, and/or the Arm cpu taking off in the PC (mini) space, WITHOUT win10 (tax!).
I wonder if Intel are going to continue maxing out at quad core mainstream cpus, when $35 entry level stuff has quad core ?
 

erunion

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I think what is probably going on is that Microsoft is worried about Linux taking off too much, and/or the Arm cpu taking off in the PC (mini) space, WITHOUT win10 (tax!).
I wonder if Intel are going to continue maxing out at quad core mainstream cpus, when $35 entry level stuff has quad core ?

The performance delta between intel quads and this broadcom quad is massive.
 

SOFTengCOMPelec

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The performance delta between intel quads and this broadcom quad is massive.

A number of sources, seem to be saying that this new $35 tiny computer, IS beginning to be fast enough, to count as a low end PC (if I have understood what people have been saying about this new Raspberry PI 2).

For $35, being somewhat usable as an internet surfing, video media, etc machine, is showing nice promise for Arm in the future. (Good enough, $35 PC-BAREBONES).

I would love to know EXACTLY, how it compares, speed (benchmark) wise, with the latest Intel/Amd cpus, but have NOT seen anything about this, yet. (It has only been released today, so I need to give it, some time).

EDIT:
But I agree, the $35 Raspberry PI 2, is going to be a lot slower than a $999 (and cheaper),
PC.
On the other hand, what can you buy for $35, in way of a brand new, Intel based PC ?

The thing is, many/most mobile phones, (low end) tablets, embedded electronics (cpus), etc are already Arm cpu based. So sooner or later, an Arm based PC, would be powerful enough ("good enough"), for most people, and then Arm based PCs may take off, big time.

i.e. If Arm PCs are both fast enough AND cheap enough.
E.g. $100/$75/$50 PCs, etc.
In the same way, very cheap tablets are taking off at the moment.
 
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erunion

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A number of sources, seem to be saying that this new $35 tiny computer, IS beginning to be fast enough, to count as a low end PC (if I have understood what people have been saying about this new Raspberry PI 2).
?

Its using a quad a7. That's a processor like you would find in a very budget smartphone. So not even good enough to replace most people's phones.

2012 was the year that everyone was saying ARM was about to start encroaching on the PC space. But it never happened, and its no longer a commonly held belief.
 

Elixer

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Repost

Sorry!. I extensively checked the cpu/overclocking for a similar thread.

I put it in cpus, because it is one of the arm cpu solutions.

Heh. And I put it in Mobile Devices & Gadgets since, it isn't a pure CPU, it is more like a all-in-one board.

What would have been really interesting with this would be if they could have gotten AMD to make the GPU part of the equation, since they are doing custom ARM CPUs/GPUs now.
I bet they would have jumped at the chance.

Maybe for Pi 3 ?

All places I have looked are out of this version.
 

SOFTengCOMPelec

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Its using a quad a7. That's a processor like you would find in a very budget smartphone. So not even good enough to replace most people's phones.

Technically speaking, I completely agree with you. But in practice, the typical (non-computer expert/enthusiast) person, wants something which can do every day tasks, such as web browsing, and video media etc, without too much delay.
i.e. Although on these forums, we may consider its performance to be terrible, the average user, maybe somewhat happy with it, given a very low asking price, tiny size and very low power consumption and relative silence(fanless).

2012 was the year that everyone was saying ARM was about to start encroaching on the PC space. But it never happened, and its no longer a commonly held belief.

I agree that Arm PCs (desktop), are virtually/somewhat non-existent.

I'm sort off sitting on the fence hear, 50 50, as to if Arm PCs are going to take off in the future, or not.
 

monstercameron

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Heh. And I put it in Mobile Devices & Gadgets since, it isn't a pure CPU, it is more like a all-in-one board.



What would have been really interesting with this would be if they could have gotten AMD to make the GPU part of the equation, since they are doing custom ARM CPUs/GPUs now.

I bet they would have jumped at the chance.



Maybe for Pi 3 ?



All places I have looked are out of this version.


Sounds pricy to go semi custom.
 

SPBHM

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well, to use it as a "PC" the cost is $35 for the board, and you have to add some power adapter (AC to DC 5V 2a USB connector), an SD card, the input device (mouse/keyboard), some display, and it would be good to have a case.

what I like about it is the ethernet port and 4 usb ports.
 

SOFTengCOMPelec

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Heh. And I put it in Mobile Devices & Gadgets since, it isn't a pure CPU, it is more like a all-in-one board.

What would have been really interesting with this would be if they could have gotten AMD to make the GPU part of the equation, since they are doing custom ARM CPUs/GPUs now.
I bet they would have jumped at the chance.

Maybe for Pi 3 ?

All places I have looked are out of this version.

Unlike Intel/Amd, I don't think you can buy socketed motherboards and separate Arm cpu chips. So I felt this was the closest thing that you get to an "Arm cpu". Hence why I put it into this sub-forum.

While creating this thread, I had a big puzzle over where exactly to place it on these forums, and there did not seem to be an obvious "correct", place. So I put it here (cpu/overclocking) as a "best fit", hopefully.

Yes, I'm not surprised if they are difficult to obtain now. But they will soon make more (I have read).
 

jhu

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Well, they've finally moved to ARMv7. At least it's no longer an ancient ARMv6.
 

Shivansps

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A number of sources, seem to be saying that this new $35 tiny computer, IS beginning to be fast enough, to count as a low end PC (if I have understood what people have been saying about this new Raspberry PI 2).

For $35, being somewhat usable as an internet surfing, video media, etc machine, is showing nice promise for Arm in the future. (Good enough, $35 PC-BAREBONES).

I would love to know EXACTLY, how it compares, speed (benchmark) wise, with the latest Intel/Amd cpus, but have NOT seen anything about this, yet. (It has only been released today, so I need to give it, some time).

EDIT:
But I agree, the $35 Raspberry PI 2, is going to be a lot slower than a $999 (and cheaper),
PC.
On the other hand, what can you buy for $35, in way of a brand new, Intel based PC ?

The thing is, many/most mobile phones, (low end) tablets, embedded electronics (cpus), etc are already Arm cpu based. So sooner or later, an Arm based PC, would be powerful enough ("good enough"), for most people, and then Arm based PCs may take off, big time.

i.e. If Arm PCs are both fast enough AND cheap enough.
E.g. $100/$75/$50 PCs, etc.
In the same way, very cheap tablets are taking off at the moment.

People DO NOT want ARM on their pcs, Windows RT should have teached a leasson to everyone, in fact it did, or we whould be swiming in ARM notebooks running Windows RT by now.
So big was the shock that people buying BT tablets are even asking if its Windows RT or not.

Also the upgraded PI-2 does not seems to have upgraded anything else besides cpu and memory, its good, but just not good enoght, no sata, emmc, gb lan, H265... the ODROID-C1 is obiusly a lot better for the same price.
 
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erunion

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I agree that Arm PCs (desktop), are virtually/somewhat non-existent.

I'm sort off sitting on the fence hear, 50 50, as to if Arm PCs are going to take off in the future, or not.

Honestly, ARM had it's best chance to break into the traditional PC space in 2012 with Windows RT, but it didn't.

Microsoft committed billions of dollars to sell Windows on ARM to consumers. But not only was it not successful, it was a complete failure. Microsoft even had Nvidia and Qualcomm in their corner. Microsoft sold WoA as Windows RT, but it was a Windows that couldn't run Windows program. As all those windows programs only run on the Intel compatible processors they were written for. It was familiarity and compatibility that consumers cared most for, not performance or cost.

Today, new generations of Intel chips have reduced costs and improved low power performance. Today the value proposition of ARM versus Intel is lower than it was 2012 and we've seen the opposite shift taking place. Intel is gaining ground over ARM in operating systems with no x86 legacy, like chrome OS.

ARM will probably never get a better opportunity than its already had, so I'm of the opinion its never going to happen(in the foreseeable future).
 
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SOFTengCOMPelec

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People DO NOT want ARM on their pcs, Windows RT should have teached a leasson to everyone, in fact it did, or we whould be swiming in ARM notebooks running Windows RT by now.
So big was the shock that people buying BT tablets are even asking if its Windows RT or not.

Also the upgraded PI-2 does not seems to have upgraded anything else besides cpu and memory, its good, but just not good enoght, no sata, emmc, gb lan, H265... the ODROID-C1 is obiusly a lot better for the same price.

You have raised some good points, but I think that the relative failure of the Microsoft Windows RT, was NOT just because of the Arm chip, but because of other reasons (as well), such as insisting on a CLOSED software market (owned by Microsoft), somewhat high hardware costs (relatively, but some might argue the prices were not too bad) and the fact that Microsoft is NOT necessarily popular in the market place, with things that they have NOT yet built up as a "closed" monopoly, such as Windows (my opinion).

I think that the raspberry PI 2, has got some good advantages for some usages, such as Electronic/robotic/embedded projects, due to its somewhat large add-on community (but not necessarily as big as the Arduino infrastructure). Also for some kinds of educational and other uses, due to its significant software (availability) community.


Honestly, ARM had it's best chance to break into the traditional PC space in 2012 with Windows RT, but it didn't.

Microsoft committed billions of dollars to sell Windows on ARM to consumers. But not only was it not successful, it was a complete failure. Microsoft even had Nvidia and Qualcomm in their corner. Microsoft sold WoA as Windows RT, but it was a Windows that couldn't run Windows program. As all those windows programs only run on the Intel compatible processors they were written for. It was familiarity and compatibility that consumers cared most for, not performance or cost.

Today, new generations of Intel chips have reduced costs and improved low power performance. Today the value proposition of ARM versus Intel is lower than it was 2012 and we've seen the opposite shift taking place. Intel is gaining ground over ARM in operating systems with no x86 legacy, like chrome OS.

ARM will probably never get a better opportunity than its already had, so I'm of the opinion its never going to happen(in the foreseeable future).

You have raised many good points.

(My Opinion is) The market place is getting somewhat complicated. One of these complications, is that Intel, maybe getting close to the (current technological) "laws of Physics" limits.

i.e. We could get to a point (which we may already be close to), where new Intel cpu releases, take longer and longer, have more and more problems/delays and offer less and less improvements, compared to previous models.

So if (in the somewhat near future), the new Intel cpus, offer slight/modest performance improvement, little/no cost improvements and perhaps only moderate/light power consumption improvements. Then people may dramatically reduce their purchases of new/fresh computers.

i.e. Why buy an expensive new PC, when your old one runs everything that you want it to, and the new one is only 2% faster, uses a bit less electricity and is the same cost (for the cpu), as it was in the old generation.

In fairness to Intel, the current crop of cpus, are at least reducing the power consumption for the cpu, from what I hear/expect.

But I am expecting little/no cost (cpu) reduction, and only modest (small) speed improvements. But if Intel prove me wrong here, then GREAT!.

Whereas the arm "end" of the market, has a tendency to need regular updates and/or buying more, of the hardware.

E.g. Mobile phone stuff tends to be regularly changed (perhaps every couple of years), due to improvements in models and/or early failure of the device and/or lost/stolen/broken etc.

i.e. Arm are building up a regular and somewhat consistent/reliable profit/money/turnover stream.

But Intel are relatively reliant on producing faster/better/greater cpus at every new generation.

tl;dr Intel = possibly reaching end of road with current laws of physics. But eventually new inventions will almost certainly move things forward again.
Arm = Probably at least 5 to 10 years of improvements, for them to catch up with the later (2015/2016) Intel chips process technologies and architectures.
 
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Idontcare

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People DO NOT want ARM on their pcs, Windows RT should have teached a leasson to everyone, in fact it did, or we whould be swiming in ARM notebooks running Windows RT by now.
So big was the shock that people buying BT tablets are even asking if its Windows RT or not.

Also the upgraded PI-2 does not seems to have upgraded anything else besides cpu and memory, its good, but just not good enoght, no sata, emmc, gb lan, H265... the ODROID-C1 is obiusly a lot better for the same price.

People don't buy components, they buy integrated products.

Outside of my professional circles of engineers and professionals, I don't have a single family member or friend who has a clue whether their product is running windows RT, iOS, Android, on an ARM or custom A8 or other.

The fraction of the market that knows the innards of what they buy, or the technical details of the product, must be really really small based on my perceptions of the hundred or so people I interact with in real life who themselves clearly have no clue what makes their favored device be their favored device.

What I see them citing as their reasons for liking their device are reasons that come down to being all about features. And to them software is a feature, apps are a feature.

Can they get app XYZ on their device ABC? If yes, then that is a "feature".

Are they comfortable with using device ABC? Is it "familiar"? To them that is a feature.

And at the end of the day the question for them is "do I want to spend money for the features I could have (if I spent the money and upgraded) versus keeping my current device and the features I already have?"

IMO Windows RT failed because it failed to provide a compelling enough feature list (apps, familiarity, social panache, curb appeal, marketing, etc) to enable it to gain the requisite market traction so as to become self-sustaining.

That a Microsoft exec went to Nokia and delivered a similar deathblow to their product line is either pure coincidence or lightening striking twice, or possibly both. That Microsoft then decided their best foot forward would be to purchase Nokia is proof that irony never goes out of style.