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just keep our heads in the sand

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You are both correct. The problem with guns is that they enable a person to kill or seriously injure an inordinate amount of people in a very short time, regardless of the killer's physical ability. The incentive to kill could be momentary rage, mental illness, martial discord, child playing, etc.-but the significant factor is that a person can cause a whole lot more distruction in a short period of time very easily with firearms.

Sites like ArmedCitizen merely point out the occassional instance where one armed person successfully confronts another. Whoop-de-do. It is an inescapable fact that firearms are a very significant cause of death and destruction in our society.

50% of deaths by guns are suicide. I discount those immediately as I don't really care if someone wants to off themselves. Of the other 50% of gun related deaths, I think something like 80% of them involve cases where the victim knew the assailant, aka husbands, wives, gang members, etc. I don't know about you but I'm not too worried about anyone that I know killing me. All of that being said, I'm just not that afraid of guns.
 
I grew up in a rural area of Virginia and went to high school (1,000 students 9-12 grades) during the mid 70's. It was not uncommon during deer hunting season to have rifles/shotguns and pistols in most of the cars/trucks in the parking lot. Never once was anyone threatened much less shot. How could this be, the gun laws were far less strict than they are today.

Could it be our parents actually taught us to be responsible with firearms?
 
It's no different than a car guy lusting after a nice car. Guns are prevalent enough in the US to be a hobby unto themselves. There are classes, models with variable reputations, custom-made guns that are works of art in and of themselves, vintage collectables that remain fire-able (the sense of history from firing a WWII era M1 Garand that actually saw action is awesome), and more. Plenty of guys collect high class guns and never actually shoot them. As for where the hobby originates, the US has a gun culture not found in many nations. Our nation was built by militia who fought off the British using their guns, and settlers who relied on their guns to survive. There was a time where men in every town were required by law to own a firearm for militia duties. Virtually every US citizen had a profound respect for guns when this country was forged and a lot of that still filters down. That heritage is one reason we have a "right" to keep and bear arms and not a "privilege".

I will say that if guns don't do it for you fine, but the only reason to actively dislike guns is fear of them. Most gun control advocates have little or no first-hand knowledge of the very thing they seek to control, have never so much as held the weapons they condemn, and that's in large part why their efforts fail over here IMO.

And actually only ~40% of US households have guns, although that 40% does own enough to arm every man, woman and child in the US (~270,000,000 privately owned guns according to FBI estimates in 2009, and climbing). I lived in Virginia (a state with fairly lenient gun laws) and I never encountered a gun in real life until I was 20 and actively sought out the experience. Many of my peers have never even seen a gun.

I don't particularly dislike guns and I certainly think that arguing for very tight gun control in the US would be unwise and unwanted.

It is different to cars. Cars are a public thing, you are in view while you drive around in them.

I do think that treating a tool for killing things in the fetishistic way that it appears to be treated over there is a little bit odd and probably is more responsible for your high incidence on gun related homicide than the actual level of gun ownership.
 
actually some good responses here

this is not a troll thread

the question remains unanswered - what, if anything, can be done to make it far more difficult for people that cannot legally purchase a gun - to get their hands on one? I'm of the opinion that guns don't materialize out of thin air - at some point they are bought legally - then either stolen or sold into the 'black market'. While I agree that joe citizen has the right to purchase a gun, or guns, should someone be able to buy 100 guns in a week and not have to at least account for what the hell the plan is for those 100, or perhaps have a special 'bulk' gun license?

I'm not calling for a gun ban - and I'm for sensible conceal carry laws as well (although allowing them in bars seems like a really stupid idea - as was recently approved here in Ohio).


As for the 'what about drunk driving deaths' questions - I'm of the opinion that we've sadly reached the point where built-in breathalayzers (spelling?) should be mandatory in every car - but the 'freedom' dickheads in this country would have a heart attack at the mere suggestion.

Irish - as for the 'talking points' comment about gun-show loopholes - are you telling me that gun shows are as regulated/controlled as you think they should be? Really?

Finally - for the response about all of the problems we have in our society - I agree - but at no point should it be acceptable that 'oh well, criminals have guns, nothing we can do about it' - that's not good enough.
 
we need to actually enforce the laws we have in place, we need to close all of the gun-show loopholes that exist

Would tighter enforcement of existing gun laws or the closing of gun-show loopholes have prevented guns from falling into the hands of the Ohio and Baltimore gunmen?

I can't find any mention of either gunmen having prior criminal records. They could have been purchased at a gun shop with a background check.
 
Cars kill people every day.

Cell phones are killing people everyday because people drive and use their cell phones at the same time, so we need to ban all cell phones.
 
the question remains unanswered - what, if anything, can be done to make it far more difficult for people that cannot legally purchase a gun - to get their hands on one?

The same answer as the question "What, if anything, can be done to make it far more difficult for people to purchase illegal drugs?" ...nothing. As long as their is a demand, there will be a supply, and there's nothing anyone can do about that.
 
We have laws against people murdering people, maybe we should have laws against guns murdering people! Why punish the accomplice that provides the gun with ammo and mobility so severely and not the one that actually murdered someone?
 
So what you're saying is that we should all open-carry? 😉

I don't get to make the laws in my own country, I certainly don't get to say what you do in yours.

That said if guns are legal to carry concealed I don't see why they shouldn't be carried openly. If I lived somewhere where I knew people were carrying guns I'd rather be able to identify them.
 
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There are no "gun show loopholes", they're a fiction made up by the media and politicians looking for publicity.

Gun shows are a business. They're run by businesses for businesses. Gun sellers at a gun show are required to follow all the same laws that they would if they were selling guns in their shops. If they don't, they can and will be shut down by the ATF. Gun sellers are quite regularly audited to make sure nothing has gone "missing."

The only way you can purchase a gun outside the system at a gun show is by purchasing it from a private seller. And that's not a loophole unless you also plan to make it illegal for a private seller to sell a firearm outside a gun show. So it has absolutely nothing to do with gun shows. "Gun show loophole" is a media scare tactic. Stop being so easily led.
 
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saying that gun shows follow the exact same process as a gun store is pure lunacy - have you ever actually been to a gun show? do you think the ATF has the personnel to police every gun show?

Why do you think gun shows are as popular as they are?

I'm not saying every gun show is a free-for-all, but there are plenty of them with all kinds of shady transactions going on.

And yes - I'm for regulating the private sale of guns - not outlawing, but regulating.
 
"The same answer as the question "What, if anything, can be done to make it far more difficult for people to purchase illegal drugs?" ...nothing. As long as their is a demand, there will be a supply, and there's nothing anyone can do about that."

See the title of this thread.
 
saying that gun shows follow the exact same process as a gun store is pure lunacy - have you ever actually been to a gun show? do you think the ATF has the personnel to police every gun show?

Why do you think gun shows are as popular as they are?

I'm not saying every gun show is a free-for-all, but there are plenty of them with all kinds of shady transactions going on.

And yes - I'm for regulating the private sale of guns - not outlawing, but regulating.

Wrong. All licensed gun dealers at a Gun Show must follow the laws, if they don't there, then they don't at their store, it's not a "gun show" issue. The "problem" and it isn't even a real problem is private sellers at gun shows, reason it's not a real problem is that private sellers can sell outside of a gun show, and do, so once again, it's not a "gun show" issue.

ATF doesn't have to be at all the gun shows, the threat of being shut down and arrested by ATF is enough. The ones that are breaking the law, obviously don't really give a shit anyway, now do they?

As far as you quip about "read the thread title", I did read your troll title. The fact is that guns are as much apart of American culture as anything, and the only way to "stop the baddies" is to severely infringe on the rights of all law abiding citizens.
 
saying that gun shows follow the exact same process as a gun store is pure lunacy - have you ever actually been to a gun show? do you think the ATF has the personnel to police every gun show?

I've been to lots of guns hows. I've purchased guns at gun shows and had to go through the same process I would if were buying one at a store. Have YOU ever been to a gun show?

Why do you think gun shows are as popular as they are?

I'm not saying every gun show is a free-for-all, but there are plenty of them with all kinds of shady transactions going on.

And yes - I'm for regulating the private sale of guns - not outlawing, but regulating.

They are regulated. You're talking out of your ass.
 
Somebody needs to post some scary black rifle pics to scare the OP.


Hey OP, our gun rights arent going anywhere for a long time. Find another cause.

Either that or hope Kucinich gets elected so his mandatory gun-buyback program can be pushed through. Haha.
 
hey OC guy - read the f'ing posts before you talk out of your ass - no where am I saying that guns are scary or anything that infringes upon your oh-so-precious rights.

I'm say way too many people in this country are being shot with guns, literally every single day - and we do absolutely nothing to try and change it.
 
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