In addition going to CC before a full college acclimates you to a college environment in steps.... Therefore when you go to college it doesn't hit you full force...
In addition going to CC before a full college acclimates you to a college environment in steps.... Therefore when you go to college it doesn't hit you full force...
Tweak155
Lifer
- Sep 23, 2003
- 11,449
- 264
- 126
Yeah but if we're hypothesizing not getting $250k in student loans, then we can hypothesize the possibility of other choices prior to already obtaining or agreeing to the debt.
All I'm saying is Halik's choice of go for the money is really a bad way to make a big decision. It just worked out for him and that's great.
To add additional information, I also chose my degree based on expected salary when I first started... then I took a course (that I was awesome at and I really liked (got 100% on the final)) that made me change my degree goal and never looked back.
SP33Demon
Lifer
- Jun 22, 2001
- 27,928
- 143
- 106
Yes.
http://www.4icu.org/ca/
McGill and University of Toronto are both AAU members, in fact the only 2 non-US institutions to be a part of the AAU.
Also, from their Wiki's:
McGill tuition rates are locked in for the duration if you get accepted to these programs:
http://www.mcgill.ca/student-accounts/tuition-fees/general-information/tuition-increases
E.g. A nursing student, 2 semesters or 30 credits at McGill undergrad:
Total Fees $19,469.29
http://www.mcgill.ca/student-accoun...nter-term-tuition-and-fees/undergraduate-fees
Find me a better deal for an AAU institution out of state. I just checked In-state here at a major institution (not AAU) would be $12,727 for 30 credit hours but that's not guaranteeing no tuition hike either. If you want AAU, then you'd have to go to either University of MD or University of Virginia. Those rates for 2 semesters?
UMD instate/out-state, $9100/yr, $28000/yr
UVA instate/outstate, $12458/yr, $39844/yr
Canada comparison for International Students:
#1U of Toronto must be pretty exclusive because it's charging big rates for International students: $38000, $36000, $34000, $32000 for years frosh-senior years.
#2 U of BC is also expensive:
$27000/yr for Engineering
#3 U of Alberta is good:
$19645/yr, 30 credits
#4 Simon Fraser:
$18000/yr, 30 credits
Basically, people are getting killed because they're paying out of state tuition. If I was a parent, I'd make them go to a decent in-state school or go to Canada if they want out of state. Otherwise they're fucking themselves by paying that much for out of state tuition. Hell, the difference between instate and out of state is enough that you may as well just tell your kid to become a resident there right out of high school before starting college.
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Hugo Drax
Diamond Member
- Nov 20, 2011
- 5,647
- 47
- 91
The simple fix is to remove all government backstops, treat college loans just like any other unsecured loan. ie: if trump could walk away from a multimillion dollar loan on one of his casinos, so should a college student.
This will bring risk to the banks providing the loans, it will then remove lots of this hot money chasing any degree out there. Degree loans/rates will be priced according to risk.
So for a womans studies degree, the vig will be 28% APR and banks will not loan past X dollars for such a degree.
You will see a collapse in college tuition prices once they are treated like any other unsecured loan.
This will bring risk to the banks providing the loans, it will then remove lots of this hot money chasing any degree out there. Degree loans/rates will be priced according to risk.
So for a womans studies degree, the vig will be 28% APR and banks will not loan past X dollars for such a degree.
You will see a collapse in college tuition prices once they are treated like any other unsecured loan.
so I borrowed the $250k number from a previous post - however I know of several people who have $160k+ of debt for undergrad....$40k/yr for 4 years, so not unheard of.
If they loved something more liberal arts related thats great too - just be fiscally minded enough to realize that you aren't guaranteed a high paying job to fulfill your debt obligations. Maybe just entertain the thought that picking something you liked (as opposed to "loved" or "hated") could be more financially rewarding and allow for a more comfortable lifestyle.
I'm not saying go for the money...by all means pick something you enjoy doing, but at least do some risk/reward analysis before agreeing to any loan amounts. In my opinion, students these days are NOT doing this analysis, causing the crushing debt.
Every single business, medical and law student will declare bankruptcy the day after they graduate. Since they own no assets, there is absolutely no downside to doing so except for a temporary credit hit.
Soon there would be no free market for student loans - student loans would cease to exist. Which may be a good thing, except that our nation believes that educated citizenry are important for both national security and world economic competitiveness.
Void the degree? What if 10 years down the line an attorney's practice fails due to a poor economy and he has to go chapter 11? Does his degree get voided then? How do you determine "legitimate" bankruptcy from student loan shirking?
Personally I think the "tuition crisis" is another example of poor planning by lots of people. Schools generally will offer classes for anyone who wants to pay for them. If you want to spend 100k getting a BS and MS in underwater basket weaving, the schools will let you.
College degrees should be limited to fields where you need actual education to perform. (for loans / 100k+ programs etc)
My personal experience as a fledgling IT guy was to get a degree in management with a telecom minor. My masters is purely in business operations. These degrees I believe have helped me significantly. I also did the CC route and cut out a lot of the fluff classes for $100 a credit hour rather than $1275 a credit hour. IE English 101, English 102, Any math etc.
Sure I have student loans but at this point the interest rate is so tiny (sub 2% on about 26k) I let them sit and use my money else where. Also, My parents never spend a dime on this either.
People that spend 100k on any program that basically gives you nothing over a 17 year old in HS is just being stupid.
College degrees should be limited to fields where you need actual education to perform. (for loans / 100k+ programs etc)
My personal experience as a fledgling IT guy was to get a degree in management with a telecom minor. My masters is purely in business operations. These degrees I believe have helped me significantly. I also did the CC route and cut out a lot of the fluff classes for $100 a credit hour rather than $1275 a credit hour. IE English 101, English 102, Any math etc.
Sure I have student loans but at this point the interest rate is so tiny (sub 2% on about 26k) I let them sit and use my money else where. Also, My parents never spend a dime on this either.
People that spend 100k on any program that basically gives you nothing over a 17 year old in HS is just being stupid.
halik
Lifer
- Oct 10, 2000
- 25,696
- 1
- 81
Clever idea. That or have a clawback on the tuition, so that the school is partially on the hook as well. Do that and there won't be any $200K medieval poetry degrees.
The student loan situation is really quite bad and there is no easy fix. There are so many things influencing the problem that it's hard to know how to deal with it. A few things to consider both cause and effect:
1) The amount of debt is enormous overall and focused heavily on young adults. Our economy is heavily consumer based and these people are unable to be the kind of consumers we need to sustain growth.
2) You cannot get out from under the debt (aside from a handful of situations). Unlike nearly every other borrowing student loans are one area where your stuck with your decision for life. You can borrow to start a business and walk away, buy a house and walk away, etc. We as a country realize there are times when the best course of actions for an individual is to declare bankruptcy, take the credit hit and move on. There is no such scheme for student loans.
3) Since they can't be discharged private lenders are (or were since the default rate keeps getting worse) loving it and giving out seemingly unlimited sums of money.
4) The demand for higher ed is massive. The trades are no longer pushed and perhaps even frowned upon. The age of going from high school to an entry level job and working your way up is largely dead. Older people are staying in the work force longer leaving fewer spots for people to move up and create lower level vacancies. These days any form of entry level that actually has growth prospects will require a degree. Not having a degree is very limiting now, it is only getting worse.
5) Expensive for profit schools prey on this exact fear of missing out. While the word is increasingly getting out about how poor most of them are they are still receiving a big piece of the loan pie and a disproportionately high portion of the defaults.
6) Even the traditionally cheap option of state school has gone up in price dramatically. When I went to school in 1997 tuition was $3,250 ($4,800 in 2014 dolloars) now it is $12,397. Unlimited loan funding + massive demand + decreasing tax subsidy in the case of public schools = tuition that is greatly surpassing inflation.
It's bad, I don't know what could possibly fix it. I'd like to see some manner of discharging student loan debt but that alone isn't an easy problem to solve.
1) The amount of debt is enormous overall and focused heavily on young adults. Our economy is heavily consumer based and these people are unable to be the kind of consumers we need to sustain growth.
2) You cannot get out from under the debt (aside from a handful of situations). Unlike nearly every other borrowing student loans are one area where your stuck with your decision for life. You can borrow to start a business and walk away, buy a house and walk away, etc. We as a country realize there are times when the best course of actions for an individual is to declare bankruptcy, take the credit hit and move on. There is no such scheme for student loans.
3) Since they can't be discharged private lenders are (or were since the default rate keeps getting worse) loving it and giving out seemingly unlimited sums of money.
4) The demand for higher ed is massive. The trades are no longer pushed and perhaps even frowned upon. The age of going from high school to an entry level job and working your way up is largely dead. Older people are staying in the work force longer leaving fewer spots for people to move up and create lower level vacancies. These days any form of entry level that actually has growth prospects will require a degree. Not having a degree is very limiting now, it is only getting worse.
5) Expensive for profit schools prey on this exact fear of missing out. While the word is increasingly getting out about how poor most of them are they are still receiving a big piece of the loan pie and a disproportionately high portion of the defaults.
6) Even the traditionally cheap option of state school has gone up in price dramatically. When I went to school in 1997 tuition was $3,250 ($4,800 in 2014 dolloars) now it is $12,397. Unlimited loan funding + massive demand + decreasing tax subsidy in the case of public schools = tuition that is greatly surpassing inflation.
It's bad, I don't know what could possibly fix it. I'd like to see some manner of discharging student loan debt but that alone isn't an easy problem to solve.
He always has the option to reaffirm the student loan debt.
This isn't complicated. If you go to bankruptcy and have a mortgage you don't reaffirm, you lose the house.
This is just parity.
Hugo Drax
Diamond Member
- Nov 20, 2011
- 5,647
- 47
- 91
That never happened before, when College loans were dischargeable and treated like any other unsecured loan. Your drinking the cool aid that the media and lobbyists are feeding the middle class.
They should be treated like any unsecured loan. Good enough for Trump, good enough for Joe Middleclass Jr.
Once this happens, college prices will go back to affordable levels, And crappy private colleges will probably go chapter 11 instead of sucking from the taxpayers teat.
We need a free market, not lemon socialism.
TwiceOver
Lifer
- Dec 20, 2002
- 13,544
- 44
- 91
Why bother. After 10 years of experience in an interview you can just say "I had a degree, but I have a boat load of experience. So..."
The degree is just paper, once you have experience, history, contacts under your belt, it really means nothing.
Respectfully disagree. The discussion was at least partially referencing medical doctors. You cannot be a doctor without a degree.
ponyo
Lifer
- Feb 14, 2002
- 19,688
- 2,811
- 126
What? That's what happened before. Not every doctor and lawyer were doing it but enough did so the laws were changed and college loans are now excluded for the most part from bankruptcy. So we can blame the asshole doctors and lawyers for not being able to discharge student loans from bankruptcy.
TwiceOver
Lifer
- Dec 20, 2002
- 13,544
- 44
- 91
Good point on medical personnel. But, in general, I don't think this is the crowd that is having issues paying their bills. I mean c'mon, what other field can you be completely wrong, I mean horribly, and still bill the person for the work.
Imported
Lifer
- Sep 2, 2000
- 14,679
- 23
- 81
Agreed on all accounts. I wish I was able to refinance.. worked my ass off to pay it all off anyways.
Slew Foot
Lifer
- Sep 22, 2005
- 12,379
- 96
- 86
MD doctors are not as rich as everybody tends to think!!! This is why I asked the question about the guy who responded in this tread with 350K in student loans. I never received an answer back from him in regards to his "return"....
Unless you are a specialist of some sort, physicians have a high salary, but also have some of the highest overhead regarding their profession! My kids last Pediatrician admitted to me his take home is around 80K when everything is said and done. He was an old guy as well 40s or so. If you have more than 100K of student loans what's the point....
justoh
Diamond Member
- Jun 11, 2013
- 3,686
- 81
- 91
Gunslinger08
Lifer
- Nov 18, 2001
- 13,234
- 2
- 81
I had merit-based scholarships that paid for my tuition, but I took student loans for living expenses and books. I also worked the entire time I was in college. I ended up with about $18k in student loans. This equates to ~$130 a month for a number of years. I'm paying them off this year.
I think that a number of things are contributing to student loan debt issues:
1. Tuition is going up pretty quickly. Faster than inflation. Tuition at my college has gone up 125% in 12 years. This is roughly 7% per year.
2. Everyone is being told they need a college degree. This increases demand.
3. A lot of non-STEM undergraduate degrees are nearly worthless. This means you have to settle for a poor paying job or take on additional graduate level debt.
4. The gap between EFC and actual family contribution has grown due to a poor economy and raising tuition.
5. Some students are forced to take private loans to bridge the gap. These can have higher interest rates and less flexible repayment options.
I think that a number of things are contributing to student loan debt issues:
1. Tuition is going up pretty quickly. Faster than inflation. Tuition at my college has gone up 125% in 12 years. This is roughly 7% per year.
2. Everyone is being told they need a college degree. This increases demand.
3. A lot of non-STEM undergraduate degrees are nearly worthless. This means you have to settle for a poor paying job or take on additional graduate level debt.
4. The gap between EFC and actual family contribution has grown due to a poor economy and raising tuition.
5. Some students are forced to take private loans to bridge the gap. These can have higher interest rates and less flexible repayment options.
OutHouse
Lifer
- Jun 5, 2000
- 36,410
- 616
- 126
why is UoP worthless? Because its private and advertise on T.V.? please qualify your statement.
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