Just got a ticket with VASCAR

[leeland]

well driving home tonight and basically got a ticket with VASCAR....said i was doing 84 in a 65....i have never heard of such a thing till tonight...now i am not saying i wasn't speeding, i was not paying to close of attention to what i was doing for a strech on the road and talking to the passanger. from what i get this VASCAR is a time distance indicator and tells you how fast you are going with the flick of two switches. To me there could be a error since it is humanly controled unlike that of a radar gun

has anyone had experiences with this ??? or taken it to court to see how acurate it acutally is ??? again, i was speeding but i don't think i was going close to 85...i rarely go 80 but i could be wrong, just curious if this is even worth fighting about it or trying to rearch the ways of beating it or getting the fine reduced

thanks
leeland

 

[Gonad the Barbarian]

You won't have much of a chance in court. VASCAR is highly accurate if done correctly. You can't prove it wasn't, and the cop will of course say it was. Better off playing another angle if you want to fight it, like faulty equipment (your speedometer).

 

[Ns1]

you'd probably also want to get a lawyer if it means anything to you =P

 

[Keego]

I thought you meant to say "Just got tickets for NASCAR"


I'm tired

 

[leeland]

well the faulty speedometer is out, it is a 2001 mitubishi eclipe.....i guess you are right...i was reading though that it should be done in as short of time as possible, i didn't get any major info from the cop, but he was saying he tracked me for about 1.6 miles...that seems like a long time and he wasn't even near me for that...i just noticed a car flying up behind me and then blam...blueberries and cherries....he was nice and all...but i really hate getting yanked over by state troopers...i know the at some points have a stressful job...but they can act like they are god and have never lost sight of something or be preoccupied when driving....in other words no warnings...i have never gotten a warning from a trooper

the worst part about this is it isn't even my damn car and was driving for someone because they were tired...and also my first ticket in over 5 years....now the three years of insurance bullsh!t again

thanks for the info
leeland

 

[leeland]

well i am not going to waste my money on a laywer...it would cost me more for that and probably not even get anything out of it from what i have been reading on the net about these types of infractions

 

[Lucky]

well I got a ticket today by LASER. My radar detector is good, but the laser was just like *bamm*, no warning. Whats this about claiming I had a faulty speedo? What do I say and do I have to prove it?

 

[calpha]

VASCAR emits no signals.

The troopers set up two points on the road (pre-measured). They then watch you drive by the first one and start a clock. When you pass the second one, the clock ends, and they have your speed.

There is no way for you to deny you were going that fast when it comes to VASCAR, unless it was heavy heavy traffic, or you were in a pack, but that usually doesn't matter in court anyway. VASCAR is generally not arguable (unlike a "pacing" ticket)

I would do the following, depending on your record:
Go to the first court date, and ask the DA if they will let you plead to 79 in a 65. Much better to be less than 15 over. If they do, then you could accept, and pay the fine and the insurance.

If they do not accept, get a lawyer. If you're driving record is hosed, they might not be able to do much though. You should be able to pay this ticket off with lawyer fees and not get such a big insurance hit.

Lastly, this is a big DO NOT:

DO NOT take a prayerful judgment on this one if you're able to with the current ticket (84 in a 65). If you do, and you get another ticket in 3 years, you'll get both whopped on you at once. It's better to try and plead (or pay) this one down then to let it hit the insurance. I know what I'm talking about b/c I took a PJ on a Careless and reckless and got a speeding ticket two years later and got both on my insurance. NOT A GOOD THING. The time to take PJs is:

1. YOU HAVE NO MONEY
2. Lesser offenses like < 15 over the SL
3. You are like my grandfather, and the chances of you getting another ticket are less than the chances of you actually going the speed limit (since he drives 5 under for that very reason of not getting tickets)

FYI, Unless you have a Friend that knows the DA, they generally will not let you: Plead down to 79 in a 65, and take the PJ.

Ideally, you would want to get this to 9 over (74 in a 65) so that it only affects your Drivers license points, not insurance points.

And Lastly: If your county is anything like mine, faulty equipment is never accepted. It's the responsibility of the person to insure the car's equipment is correct, and that argument doesn't work. Period (Trust me...I had a car that reported 58 when it was going 74, and got a ticket three months into knowing it. I had the speedometer calibrated, and took it to the DA, and he said, "So. It's still your fault." I was able to plead to 66 in a 55 but that's only b/c I had no $ for a lawyer).

A Former Mustang Owner

 

[calpha]

took me so long to type that damn post, I learned more info:

Lawyers are indeed a risk, but a calculated one at that. It really depends on your county as to how much maneuvering a lawyer can do.

For instance:
My ticket in 1995 for 74 in a 55: Nothing that I could do about it. I talked to a lawyer, and he said to plead it based on my record. My residence county is very very strict on speeding tickets. My uncle is also a cop in the same county, and he told me to plead it b/c I had no chance of getting out of it. <Edit> I pleaded to a lesser count of 66 in a 55 </edit>

My ticket in 1998 for 71 in a 55: Different county same state. This is the county that I grew up in and I know that they are lenient on speeding tickets (military base in county for one reason). I paid $300 for a lawyer and got the charges completely dropped wihtout ever having to show up in court. Definitely worht the $ to do that.

I just got a dman ticket today when I was flapping to my wife driving without a care in the world. 51 in a 35. I'm tempted to take a PJ, but I think I'll try and plead it to a 44 in a 35 since I just moved here and wasn't paying attention (and no other traffic on road). First ticket in 4 years.

 

[leeland]

just a quick question, what is a prayful judgement ??? never heard of that one...i was planning on seeing if i can when my court date is talk to the DA or see what they can do about lessening the fine or the speed. not that i am the best driver ever, i do have a very clean record and hope that they can look at this and possibly give me a break

how do you go about talking to the DA ??? do you do it before your case or when you actually go to court ???

thanks
leeland

 

[leeland]

well it is about 2 in the morning so i am off to bed, but i appreciate the info and hope i can come up with somemore questions or info for this dilema....and if when you get some time could please adlib on the prayerful judgment i would appreciate it in understanding how that works and why i would want to do it or not do it

thanks
leeland

 

[Lucky]

Hmm..Mine was in the lowest category, 0-20 over. If I plead to it lower than the 13 I was over will that help with the insurance hit?

 

[Pacfanweb]

<<There is no way for you to deny you were going that fast when it comes to VASCAR, unless it was heavy heavy traffic, or you were in a pack, but that usually doesn't matter in court anyway. VASCAR is generally not arguable (unlike a "pacing" ticket)>>]

I don't know where these people get their info, but any lawyer worth his/her salt can absolutely FRY a ticket based solely on VASCAR. VASCAR is not much better than pacing. It relies too much on human perception. It is based solely on the cop's judgement on when you crossed each line, and how accurate he was when he punched the button to start/stop the clock. At hwy speeds, he doesn't have to be off by much to change your speed drastically.


<<just a quick question, what is a prayful judgement ??? >>

It's PRAYER FOR JUDGEMENT to be continued. It means basically that, you're found guilty, but you enter a prayer for judgedment to be continued, which means the ticket doesn't count against you unless you get another one in a specified period of time....a year in this state, I think.

 

[leeland]

well i can see both sides of the coin, the error is possible with this and i really didn't see the trooper following me at all, i mean i didn't see a car directly near me....he said he got me with VASCAR...and then also with pacing. i will see what i can do about it when i call for another court date, i have been reading on the web on how to beat tickets it is actually pretty interesting how you can get around some things....

and how often do they grant that pray for judgement....i have never heard of that and if it would be granted to me i think that would help my cause a little bit, since i haven't gotten a ticket in like 5 years

 

[Pacfanweb]

My wife got a PJC in 1997, and another one in 2001. I don't know what the limit is, or how often you can get one. I don't think you can get one while one is still on the books. This is in NC, I don't know if all states have them or not.

I've had several lawyers tell me that Vascar is the easiest of all speed measurement devices to beat, since it involves so much input from the human. All the cop has to do is misjudge when you hit the line by a few feet and it can affect your speed a lot.
If you know you were pretty much speeding anyway, your best bet is to just get it reduced to a speed that won't make you lose your license.
Unless you get a lawyer that knows enough people to get you off. That costs big $$ though, but can be done almost anywhere. Traffic court is nothing but a racket.

 

[brxndxn]

god.. why the hell don't they ever seem to pull over the reckless drivers..

They just pull over the people going 10 over. sooo stupid.

 

[MadRat]

VASCAR has to be calibrated, which is the weakest point of the government's argument in the validity of this system. Challenge the ticket and require the officer to testify.

1. The officer will probably not show
2. He/she's probably calibrating it wrong

I've yet to see one hold up in court. They have to calibrate to an atomic clock, which is not normally carried by your law enforcement. Alot of officers calibrate to their stopwatch and then calibrate their radar to the VASCAR, which is an inaccurate way to calibrate for both devices. A stopwatch/wristwatch is not admissable in court as an accurate measurement of time.

So, basically you make the officer (if he/she shows) testify:

1. When was the last time the device was certified by the manufacturer?
2. When was the last time the device was calibrated prior to the ticket?
3. Who calibrated the device prior to the ticker?
4. How was it EXACTLY calibrated prior to the ticket?
5. What certification does the officer who operated the device hold for using the VASCAR device?
6. What certification or training did the officer have prior to using the device, and what was the last training the officer has had for this VASCAR device?

These questions have sunk every ticket that has gone up against VASCAR. One of the state senators in my state made up this list. He has a clean driving record although he's probably never driven the speed limit a day of his life.

 

[Balthazar]

<< well i am not going to waste my money on a laywer...it would cost me more for that and probably not even get anything out of it from what i have been reading on the net about these types of infractions >>



Not true, a good traffic lawyer can get you out of alot, and what you pay up front is MUCH better than what you pay insurance for three years.
Also helps if you have a friend in the biz
Sucks about the ticket man.

Also quite unfortunate that, from my understanding, most radar detectors are useless against VASCAR (I admittedly do not know that much about it though).

Oh well, I don't speed anyway

Good luck with the ticket.

 

[calpha]

<<
I don't know where these people get their info, but any lawyer worth his/her salt can absolutely FRY a ticket based solely on VASCAR. VASCAR is not much better than pacing. It relies too much on human perception. It is based solely on the cop's judgement on when you crossed each line, and how accurate he was when he punched the button to start/stop the clock. At hwy speeds, he doesn't have to be off by much to change your speed drastically.
>>



My uncles a cop, and I should have specified clearer:
IF the VASCAR is calibrated and performed correctly, and the officer shows up in court, you by yourself will have difficulty getting off the ticket. It's also dependent on your DA. (The way you speak to a DA is to get to court when the doors open, and get in Line behind the DA. There usually is one BTW. Lawyer wise--What lawyers can and can't do is largely dependent on the county it's in in my state, and of course the judge/da.

I got a ticket in one county in NC, and got off completely (71 in a 55). If that ticket was in my residence county, I would not have been able to get off in all probablity. My county is very very strict about that.

If you have a clean driving record, then you should be able to plead it down. But you may have difficulty pleading it down to less than 15 over.

Here's how it works in my state---your state's insurance commision may or may not have different rules:
Speed Limit Under 70 MPH --> Tickets > 15 MPH over the Speed Limit result in a 30 revocation of your license. This happened to me in 1993
Speed Limit Over 70 MPH --> Tickets > 20 MPH over the speed limit result in a 30 day revocation of your license.

My brother just got a Ticket in GA for 93 in a 70. He didn't go to court and plead it, so when the ticket comes back to NC, he'll get a 30 day revocation.



<<
It's PRAYER FOR JUDGEMENT to be continued. It means basically that, you're found guilty, but you enter a prayer for judgedment to be continued, which means the ticket doesn't count against you unless you get another one in a specified period of time....a year in this state, I think. >>



In my state it's one every three years.

 

[calpha]

Just spoke with my uncle.

He is Radar/Vascar certified.

VASCAR is not an archaic art like you were made to believe (at least this state).

Vascar uses markers on the roads with electronic eyes (or some other technology---he wasn't positive it was electronic eyes, but it does not require the officer to press a button---the readout is triggered by a vehicle passing both stop and end points) to mark the begin/end of traveling through the zone. It is more reliable than Radar (since Radar guns can be incorrectly calibrated). On top of that, he said VASCAR tickets around here have less than a 2% chance of getting off on a technicality. 98 of 100 Vascar tickets stand (that doesn't mean they're not reduced), but only 2 of 100 are thrown out for incorrect use, or whatever else the other poster mentioned above.

 

[MadRat]

Yeah, 2% perhaps if the other 98 went uncontested. Your uncle is full of crap.

 

[Pacfanweb]

How Vascar works

Yep, your uncle is full of crap. Vascar is just a fancy stop watch. Any good lawyer worth his salt can beat it.

 

[calpha]

the 2% my uncle was talking about were those that resulted in getting NO OFFENSE---completely dropped
--98% was used to represent those that recieved a citation of some sort resulting from teh initial VASCAR-clocked ticket.. This includes those that plead to a lesser offense, or lesser speeding ticket.

I don't know why insults fly so hard on these boards when people think they know something. I was only trying to illustrate based on what my uncle's perspective on having used VASCAR, and seen how it holds up in court, that ICELAND might be best to get a lawyer if the DA won't let him plead to a lesser offense. But, depending on the technology used (one "how vascar works" is not the be all end all to all vascar systems asweepeh) it may be easier in other places than it is in my county. I should have pointed that out above so flame me for that.

Unless you're an expert on vascar, please be quiet. I'm not, but I'm relaying directly from the horse's mouth, with no DROPPED Packets. According to my uncle, with the newer advances it's very very reliable, and that's why it stands so strong in court now. Plus the DA's are on the same page recognizing the reliablity in VASCAR in this area, hence the high rate of tickets. Vascar is lacking for cars traveling in packs, and does have some inaccuracies there. My uncles' a friggin Seargent, in charge of the evening weekend squads, so one might be inclined to think, he knows what the hell he's talking about.

I'm sorry I opened up a can of worms about VASCAR, but if people would not respond without direct knowledge or direct access to someone that uses the technology, then there would be no argument. If you still want to argue with me, go ahead and waste your breath because I'm done here.

If my uncle lied to me, then I'll eat a bunch of crow and wear a horse's ass around for a week.
---------
IT boils down to this:

Good luck getting off of your ticket. Vascar systems aside, the trooper did pace you too, so that can be good and bad. Pacing by itself is worthless, but he's got two separate readings. Either way, with a good lawyer, or even a nice DA, you should be able to get out with at worst a lesser offense, and at best no offense. Just talk to the DA first. If they won't deal, CONTINUANCE Man.

 

[Johnnie]

my last speeding ticket...$663
71 in a 55

 

[MadRat]

<<If my uncle lied to me, then I'll eat a bunch of crow and wear a horse's ass around for a week.>>

Yeehaw, yeehaw. Don't believe 100% of what you hear without checking both the source and the information.

<<I'm sorry I opened up a can of worms about VASCAR, but if people would not respond without direct knowledge or direct access to someone that uses the technology, then there would be no argument. If you still want to argue with me, go ahead and waste your breath because I'm done here.>>

We don't care if you have no grounds for supporting VASCAR. You opened up the can of worms with stating fact that is not true. Its not about being right or wrong, its about accuracy. Your message is not accurate, hence you would have been best to not state it.

<<Unless you're an expert on vascar, please be quiet.>>

No, they don't have to be quiet. This forum is already silent.

<<I'm not, but I'm relaying directly from the horse's mouth, with no DROPPED Packets... Vascar is lacking for cars traveling in packs, and does have some inaccuracies there. My uncles' a friggin Seargent, in charge of the evening weekend squads, so one might be inclined to think, he knows what the hell he's talking about.>>

Perhaps you mistook which end was the mouth and which end was the crap. Perhaps you didn't tell him its VASCAR and not RADAR. Sometimes people just hear a little bit of the question and go off on a tangent. Its a common problem when talking to police, especially a high and mighty sergeant. Anyone that gets to know the police soon learns why its one of the few jobs that pay the same as a teacher.