Just got a text from friend - he also got a hybrid. UPDATE: My Prius is totalled!

[Eug]

The car I posted is a TDI AWD Golf sportwagen, not a hatch. Even tricked out with all other options, you can still have a 6 speed manual. Not sure anyone else is selling a car like that in the U.S. (Jalopnik and autoblog call it the "holy grail") New generation is bigger and lighter, getting close to 50mpg hwy. But that alltrak AWD not available in the states til 2016.

Only automatic/CVT for me. I can't drive a manual. Well, technically I can, but I'm lousy at it, and I also have a shoulder injury, so my right shoulder gets tired easily.

BTW, I learned to drive stick in Europe on vacation. Definitely not the best place to learn. (Well, I initially learned for maybe 40 minutes in an ancient Jeep in a quiet area of Toronto something like 10 years ago, but then put it to test in Europe a few years back.) After about a day of driving, I surrendered the driving responsibilities to my wife.

Yes, I officially turned in my man card that day.

A Prius V has the same passenger space and cargo capacity as a lot of Cross-over vehicles. You really can't beat the Prius line of vehicles in terms of practicality. I'd stay the hell away from any Chrysler Products if you value reliability and low maintenance. You've been spoiled by low cost of ownership with the Prius, switching to most other vehicles on the road will alleviate you of that luxury of low maintenance, high reliability.


How tall are your friends? You won't be getting any more leg room in a "crossover" vehicle, you'd have to step up to a significantly larger vehicle to get more leg room than a Prius. I'm pretty tall and I find the Prius leg room extremely spacious and couldn't be happier with it. Prius has the same legroom as a Camry so no improvement in that dept.

With a regular Prius and the child car seat in the back, I get maybe 0.5" to 1" clearance between the driver's seat and the child car seat. However, I'm only 5'7". A taller person would want to move the seat back but they can't.

I've been looking at certified used Lexus RX 450h online and they're listed locally at around CAD$40000-$45000 for a decent 2013 with moderately low mileage. A new 2015 would be over CAD$60000. There doesn't seem to be much point in getting an RX 350 non-hybrid because for similar features it's not that much cheaper.

BTW, Lexus really overcharges on the yearly navigation software. With my cheap Garmin, I get free software updates for life. Lexus wants over $200 every year? Damn. That's more than I paid for my Garmin.

 

[tortillasoup]

With a regular Prius and the child car seat in the back, I get maybe 0.5" to 1" clearance between the driver's seat and the child car seat. However, I'm only 5'7". A taller person would want to move the seat back but they can't.

I have no idea what you're talking about. Unless you have super long legs or something, as a 6'2 person, I can adjust the driver's seat very comfortably, then get out of the car and sit behind myself with plenty of leg room to spare in a 2004-2009 Prius. I can't understand how you can't "comfortably" put a car seat behind a person who is only 5'7.

I've been looking at certified used Lexus RX 450h online and they're listed locally at around CAD$40000-$45000 for a decent 2013 with moderately low mileage. A new 2015 would be over CAD$60000. There doesn't seem to be much point in getting an RX 350 non-hybrid because for similar features it's not that much cheaper.

You don't seem to realize that the Prius already has a lot of legroom and there aren't that many vehicles on the road with significantly more legroom than the Prius. Most people get by with putting car seats in cars with LESS legroom than the Prius without an issue.

2013 RX350
Front:43.1in
rear: 36.8in

2004 Prius
Front: 41.9in
Rear: 38.6in

2012 Prius V
Front:41.3in
Rear: 35.9in

2013 Prius
Front: 42.5in
Rear: 36in



I think you have trouble with estimating measurements. What you consider "1 in" is actually more like 3". You will not get appreciably more leg room with most vehicles on the road compared to the Prius because those vehicles tend to be landyachts. If there is one thing that is abundant in the Prius, it's leg room! My main complaint with the '04 Prius was the only 37" of rear headroom, but guess what? The '10 Prius improves that head room enough but I'd prefer at least 38". There are enough vehicles on the road that have only 37" of headroom such as the Camry with moonroof that it's understandable.


Don't confuse "wants" with needs.

 

[Eug]

You'd be surprised, for rear-facing seats that is. Friends of mine also with two young kids just went through the same process and schlepped around their car seats to the car dealerships. A couple of small SUVs they tried weren't big enough for their car seats, and the guy is only 5'9". They ended up buying a Nissan Rogue.

This is my rental Hyundai Sonata mid-size with our new replacement Britax Advocate ClickTight convertible car seat, rear facing. The front seat is in a position that would be appropriate for a guy that's taller than me, but not moved far back.

You'll see that there is a fair bit of leg room there, but that's not the issue per se, it's the room to the back of the top part of the front seat, which is further back because of the (normal) tilt.

In this car there is sufficient space, as I can get over an 1" of clearance with a reasonably tall passenger.

Legroom on that model is listed as 45.5" / 35.6". Combined that's 81.1". Thanks for finding my 2004 Prius specs which are 41.9" / 38.6". Combined that's 80.5", so only about a half inch smaller judging by the specs, but in terms of real world difference it is more than that so obviously the specs don't tell the whole story.

BTW, my Britax Advocate is actually a bit smaller in terms of front to back length, as compared to my Britax Chaperone, when the carry bar is down. I believe the Chaperone is longer than similar car seats, partially because it has that anti-rebound brace in the base.

I did a bit of Googling, and this is what that car seat looks like in this 5'10" guy's car:

http://www.audizine.com/forum/showt...ne-fits-best?p=8141590&viewfull=1#post8141590

He has the car seat between the two bucket seats in the middle, so it fits, but it definitely would not fit behind either of the seats. And that's with the carry bar up, not down.

I can tell you that in our Yaris, it is cramped with those car seats. Even for me it's uncomfortable because I have to move the seat up far enough so my knees bang the steering column if I move them. For someone 6', it would be basically unusable.

 

[tortillasoup]

I can see the problem, the seat is leaning too far back! Great seating position if you want major whiplash in a car accident! Maybe you should put the car seat in the middle of the rear?

 

[Eug]

The leans of the seat are normal leans, like how they're shown in dealerships. If you put them straight up they feel like church pews.

We have two young kids, so we need two rear-facing car seats. (Front facing is not a problem in terms of space.)

 

[tortillasoup]

The leans of the seat are normal leans, like how they're shown in dealerships. If you put them straight up they feel like church pews.

I disagree, in that picture shown, that's a serious lean. Go sit in the seat like you're driving the car, and ask yourself is your head resting against the head rest. If it's not, you're at risk for whiplash in a collision. You've probably conditioned yourself to having poor posture.

We have two young kids, so we need two rear-facing car seats. (Front facing is not a problem in terms of space.)

Well don't buy a vehicle just because your child will be in a rear facing seat as that's a temporary condition while a vehicle purchase is something you'll have for years. People don't buy new vehicles just because they broke their foot and are in a cast for 6 months or so. Same thing with a rear facing car seat.

 

[highland145]

Yeah, the little one was totally freaked out for about 45 minutes after it happened. She also was talking about it all evening after that, and this morning too. 🙁 But physically she is fine.

Wife had a similar deal when the boy was about 2.5. He drew attention to it for days. No one was hurt. +1 for you and yours being safe.

 

[LTC8K6]

I believe the Sonata, like many modern cars, has active headrests. They compensate for the fact that your head may not be resting on the head rest.

They are pretty common these days.

http://www.wk2jeeps.com/wk2_active_restraints.htm

 

[Eug]

Well don't buy a vehicle just because your child will be in a rear facing seat as that's a temporary condition while a vehicle purchase is something you'll have for years. People don't buy new vehicles just because they broke their foot and are in a cast for 6 months or so. Same thing with a rear facing car seat.

Huh? That makes no sense whatsoever. Of course I will buy a vehicle to accommodate rear facing seats, esp. since I have the chance to do so now. It would be foolish to do otherwise, esp. since those seats will be like that for YEARS.

BTW, the friend who bought an i8 did so now precisely because he has no kids yet. When he has kids he will be buying vehicles to accommodate them. And yes, he actually said that.

 

[tortillasoup]

I believe the Sonata, like many modern cars, has active headrests. They compensate for the fact that your head may not be resting on the head rest.

They are pretty common these days.

http://www.wk2jeeps.com/wk2_active_restraints.htm

His older Prius didn't have active head restraints but yes the newer ones do. Not every vehicle even made today though has active head restraints.

Huh? That makes no sense whatsoever. Of course I will buy a vehicle to accommodate rear facing seats, esp. since I have the chance to do so now. It would be foolish to do otherwise, esp. since those seats will be like that for YEARS.

BTW, the friend who bought an i8 did so now precisely because he has no kids yet. When he has kids he will be buying vehicles to accommodate them. And yes, he actually said that.

This isn't a comparison between a 2 seater coupe and a minivan, this is the comparison with a 4 door sedan/wagon that is reasonably large and a 4 door sedan/wagon/suv that is a tiny bit larger while having a large reliability, maintenance and fuel economy penalty to go with it. I just don't see the 1in increase in space as worth it especially when tilting the seat forward like you should would alleviate any issue you could be having.

The fact that you can fit the car seat in a Yaris which is a TINY vehicle says it wasn't a poor fit in your Prius anyhow.

I mean if removing the car seat is an issue, you can always tilt the front seat forward a little bit prior to installation/removal and then tilt it back if you're going to sit there. Having the car seat light press against the front seat would actually make it more secure. I don't see how raising two kids with a Prius is an issue as I know families that have raised kids from infancy with vehicles such as the Prius or with even less legroom than that. My mom raised a family of 4 kids with a Volvo 240 Wagon which had the following Dimensions: Front legroom 40.1 inches, Rear legroom is 36.4 inches.


Don't confuse a want with a need. You don't NEED and SUV to raise two kids and it's not uncomfortable or dangerous to use a Midsize-Fullsize vehicle to do so.


Just remember, a Prius has the same legroom as a Camry and is only 2 inches narrower than the Camry. If the Camry is big enough which you said it was, then the Prius is big enough. You go with the Prius V if you want a bit more head room and you want a LOT more cargo room. If you can't carry two infants in a Prius/Camry, something ain't right.

 

[vi edit]

In this thread….people who have no kids and have no clue how much of a pain in the ass rear facing seats are 😛

Dimensions mean nothing when it comes to cramming a rear facing car seat into a vehicle and trying to load the 30-40 pounds it plus a kid in it weights. It's all about how the back seats are shaped, the front seats are formed, and the amount of travel in the front seat required to keep the front occupants comfortable.

Best sedan'ish kinda car I had for rear facing car seats was a Chevy Malibu Maxx. The rear seats reclined, slid back, and made for some crazy amounts of room in the back.

We've got a 2012 Camry right now and there's a decent amount of space, but what I hate are the damn doors on it. The doors are the longest opening things I've seen in a rear door. They have this long "wing" that sticks out another 6" + past the rest of the door and it's massive pain in the butt trying to get them open and get carriers in out and out in cramped spots. I really hate the car for that purpose. Those doors are obnoxiously long.

I loved my Mazda5 too. That thing was a breeze getting kids in and out of. Sliding doors, low loading height, good space in the back row. Just an incredibly small family friendly vehicle. Only downside is that it's not a very big car, and the person in front of the rear facing seat wasn't going to be sliding their seat back very much.

The day my kids hit 2 they were in front facing seats. Rear facing are such a massive pain in the ass I relished the day we could flip those things around.

 

[Eug]

I'd have to guess tortillasoup is just going by specs and has not tried this in real life.

The Yaris doesn't work. The car seat fits only if you move the front seat way up which makes it quite uncomfortable for shorter people, and near impossible to use for taller people.

The Prius 2004 gives slight clearance for me, but not for anyone taller.

The current Sonata has more room for a car seat than the Prius 2004.

And I already mentioned that a friend had to cross some small SUV options off his search list because his car seat would not fit with him in front even though he is only 5'9". Yes, he dragged his car seats to about 5 different dealerships. If the car seat didn't fit comfortably he didn't bother with a test drive. If it did, then he got the test drive.

This is about real world practical functionality.

 

[tortillasoup]

I'd have to guess tortillasoup is just going by specs and has not tried this in real life.

The Yaris doesn't work. The car seat fits only if you move the front seat way up which makes it quite uncomfortable for shorter people, and near impossible to use for taller people.

The Prius 2004 gives slight clearance for me, but not for anyone taller.

The current Sonata has more room for a car seat than the Prius 2004.

And I already mentioned that a friend had to cross some small SUV options off his search list because his car seat would not fit with him in front even though he is only 5'9". Yes, he dragged his car seats to about 5 different dealerships. If the car seat didn't fit comfortably he didn't bother with a test drive. If it did, then he got the test drive.

This is about real world practical functionality.

It sounds like the car seat or the way you're installing it (not tilting seat forward) is the issue, not the vehicle. Like I said, I grew up with cars that had far less legroom and I have friends that own Prius vehicles that have raised kids from infancy and they're all taller than 5'9. The Yaris is a TINY vehicle and I would never suggest it yet people do get by with using car seats in such a vehicle. If you can't manage to get by with the use a Camry/Prius, something ain't right as they're more than sufficient.

A friend had a 2005 Silverado quad cab 1500 Pickup truck and used a car seat in the rear... Think that would be an appropriate vehicle? Think again, it only has 33.7" of legroom in the rear. She honestly would have been better served with a Corolla/Civic which both have over 34" of legroom in the rear. She eventually bought an '01 Nissan Sentra and it's much better for her now. I know what a cramped vehicle is, I physically cannot fit in the rear of the vehicle with out going spread eagle with my legs unless there is at least 34" of legroom.

 

[nedfunnell]

How about a Volt? Said to handle car seats, gets great mileage even after your 40 miles of electricity runs out, and is pretty luxurious.

 

[michal1980]

I'd have to guess tortillasoup is just going by specs and has not tried this in real life.

The Yaris doesn't work. The car seat fits only if you move the front seat way up which makes it quite uncomfortable for shorter people, and near impossible to use for taller people.

The Prius 2004 gives slight clearance for me, but not for anyone taller.

The current Sonata has more room for a car seat than the Prius 2004.

And I already mentioned that a friend had to cross some small SUV options off his search list because his car seat would not fit with him in front even though he is only 5'9". Yes, he dragged his car seats to about 5 different dealerships. If the car seat didn't fit comfortably he didn't bother with a test drive. If it did, then he got the test drive.

This is about real world practical functionality.

It sounds like the car seat or the way you're installing it (not tilting seat forward) is the issue, not the vehicle. Like I said, I grew up with cars that had far less legroom and I have friends that own Prius vehicles that have raised kids from infancy and they're all taller than 5'9. The Yaris is a TINY vehicle and I would never suggest it yet people do get by with using car seats in such a vehicle. If you can't manage to get by with the use a Camry/Prius, something ain't right as they're more than sufficient.

A friend had a 2005 Silverado quad cab 1500 Pickup truck and used a car seat in the rear... Think that would be an appropriate vehicle? Think again, it only has 33.7" of legroom in the rear. She honestly would have been better served with a Corolla/Civic which both have over 34" of legroom in the rear. She eventually bought an '01 Nissan Sentra and it's much better for her now. I know what a cramped vehicle is, I physically cannot fit in the rear of the vehicle with out going spread eagle with my legs unless there is at least 34" of legroom.

I don't have kids, but have seen car seats these days, its nuts. These things are large.

 

[NutBucket]

It sounds like the car seat or the way you're installing it (not tilting seat forward) is the issue, not the vehicle. Like I said, I grew up with cars that had far less legroom and I have friends that own Prius vehicles that have raised kids from infancy and they're all taller than 5'9. The Yaris is a TINY vehicle and I would never suggest it yet people do get by with using car seats in such a vehicle. If you can't manage to get by with the use a Camry/Prius, something ain't right as they're more than sufficient.

Look, clearly you don't have any experience with modern kid seats. Just let the parents discuss the car seat issues. What worked for our parents is meaningless now. The only way to test this out is to bring your car seat with you to the dealership. Otherwise it is pure speculation about what works and what doesn't. Plus, there is something called personal preference that comes into play too.

 

[nerp]

Car seat in a Yaris?! Having owned a Yaris, and having two children now, FORGET IT. Not only is that car frighteningly small, it's frightening when you realize your rear-facing infant is so close to the rear glass and someone in an SUV can stare down at your kid when they're behind you. If you have any concern about safety, you are not considering a Yaris and transporting children. It's for single people or a couple with a cat who don't expect to do much more than around town driving. The safety factor alone is a reason to spend more for a real car to drive your children around.

 

[tortillasoup]

Here are the following people's vehicles that I know who have raised infants since 2008.

Friend, son born in 2008. 2001 Honda CR-V: Front leg room, 41.5", rear legroom 36.7"
Friend, son born in 2010. 2001 Nissan Sentra: Front Legroom, 41.6", rear legroom 33.7"
Friend has second son born in 2012 (one with CR-V), upgrades to a 2013 Camry Hybrid. Front Legroom, 41.6", Rear Legroom 38.9"
Cousin, son born in 2012, 2006 Highlander Hybrid: Front Legroom 40.7", Rear Legroom 36.4"
Friend, son born in 2013. 2005 Toyota Prius: Front Legroom: 41.9", Rear Legroom 38.6"


I don't know a single person who has had a child recently and is shorter than about 5'9.
I can of course name tons of much older people who have had children (including me) and drove cars that all had less than a combined front and rear legroom of less than 78".


I've installed and helped lots of people with car seats so I know how they install and how to deal with them. Legroom is EVERYTHING, it's impossible for me to sit in a car with less than 34" of legroom. If you can't manage a car seat with 39" of rear room, there is a problem with you or the car seat. Frankly people should be able to disable front airbags if they want to use the front seat for a car seat, that way babies wouldn't be forgotten.

 

[NoCreativity]

Here are the following people's vehicles that I know who have raised infants since 2008.

Friend, son born in 2008. 2001 Honda CR-V: Front leg room, 41.5", rear legroom 36.7"
Friend, son born in 2010. 2001 Nissan Sentra: Front Legroom, 41.6", rear legroom 33.7"
Friend has second son born in 2012 (one with CR-V), upgrades to a 2013 Camry Hybrid. Front Legroom, 41.6", Rear Legroom 38.9"
Cousin, son born in 2012, 2006 Highlander Hybrid: Front Legroom 40.7", Rear Legroom 36.4"
Friend, son born in 2013. 2005 Toyota Prius: Front Legroom: 41.9", Rear Legroom 38.6"


I don't know a single person who has had a child recently and is shorter than about 5'9.
I can of course name tons of much older people who have had children (including me) and drove cars that all had less than a combined front and rear legroom of less than 78".


I've installed and helped lots of people with car seats so I know how they install and how to deal with them. Legroom is EVERYTHING, it's impossible for me to sit in a car with less than 34" of legroom. If you can't manage a car seat with 39" of rear room, there is a problem with you or the car seat. Frankly people should be able to disable front airbags if they want to use the front seat for a car seat, that way babies wouldn't be forgotten.

While numbers give good indication of whether it will fit it's not the whole story. Our two cars are below (although we recently replaced the G6). I think we can agree that they both have the same or close leg room to be considered the same.

2008 Ford fusion: Front - 42.3", Rear - 37.5"
2006 Pontiac G6: Front - 42.2", Rear - 37.6"

Please explain why the same exact car seat fits more comfortably in the Pontiac than in the Ford. And that is with seats reclined the same/very similar in both vehicles.

We replaced the G6 with a 2014 Chrysler Town and country

Front - 40.7", Rear - 36.2"

And yet that is in the same comfort arena as the Ford. How is that possible with 3" less of leg room?

For comparison to the Chrysler I have also had the same seat in the a 2010 Chrysler 200 and it fit less comfortably than the Ford and the T&C. How could it fit less comfortably than the T&C with more leg room?

2010 Chrysler 200: Front - 42.4", Rear - 36.2"

 

[Eug]

Spoke with my insurance adjuster. The car has significant frame damage as expected, so unfixable. And yes, it's a write-off.

I was pleasantly surprised by the valuation (which is from JD Power). The base model of my car with a little under 100000 miles goes for a little over $6900 (US$5510) plus tax, but for my upgrade package, it goes for $7930 (~US$6325) plus tax. That means for this 11 year-old car they are cutting me a cheque for almost CAD$9000 including tax, or well-over US$7000.

Even the insurance adjuster was surprised at the amount.

I'm going to the Lexus dealer soon. 😉 I'm starting with them for my car search and going from there.

BTW, would you buy a certified pre-owned car that was 2 or 3 years old? I'm not going to buy plain used though. I'm thinking certified pre-owned should be OK, if the car looks decent, cuz a new high end luxury crossover costs too much.

 

[NutBucket]

CPO are usually lease returns and they should have all maintenance records...at least in my experience.

 

[tortillasoup]

While numbers give good indication of whether it will fit it's not the whole story. Our two cars are below (although we recently replaced the G6). I think we can agree that they both have the same or close leg room to be considered the same.

2008 Ford fusion: Front - 42.3", Rear - 37.5"
2006 Pontiac G6: Front - 42.2", Rear - 37.6"

Please explain why the same exact car seat fits more comfortably in the Pontiac than in the Ford. And that is with seats reclined the same/very similar in both vehicles.

We replaced the G6 with a 2014 Chrysler Town and country

Front - 40.7", Rear - 36.2"

And yet that is in the same comfort arena as the Ford. How is that possible with 3" less of leg room?

For comparison to the Chrysler I have also had the same seat in the a 2010 Chrysler 200 and it fit less comfortably than the Ford and the T&C. How could it fit less comfortably than the T&C with more leg room?

2010 Chrysler 200: Front - 42.4", Rear - 36.2"

TBH I'm not there so I can't see how/where/why you think things fit "less comfortably".

 

[PhoKingGuy]

This is somewhat relevant:

http://www.edmunds.com/volkswagen/g...ertible-car-seats-an-informal-comparison.html

http://www.edmunds.com/audi/a3/2015...at-for-rear-facing-convertible-car-seats.html

 

[vi edit]

Yep. That's why the only option is to lug around the seats you have and fit them yourself to see how they go.

You still run into problems even after the rear facing seat is gone. My 7 year old is in a booster now. If I sit where she does, it's fine for me. I'm 6' tall and leggy. There's plenty of room for me due to how the cutout of the back seat is. My knees fit under the back of the front seat.

But with the booster and how it forces her legs, her knees are above the cutout of where an adults knees would be and her feet are in my back most of the time.

Car seats suck and about the only way everyone is going to be completely comfortable is in a minivan or one of the bigger SUV's like a Traverse.

 

[Eug]

Checked out the Lexus RX. Just seems really big. The NX seems better sized for us although I didn't try the car seat in it. Didn't bother because it was only available new and I didn't want to spend the coin.

May end up buying a Toyota RAV 4 if the car seats fit comfortably. I can get it at invoice price plus $300, plus there is a $1500 off promotion right now.