Just don't get it... if i7 965EE so fast, then why AMD 940...

[Flipped Gazelle]

Originally posted by: soccerballtux
Random story-- noob on some UT3 server was complaining about how his processor wasn't stable. I asked him what processor he had, and he had a Pentium D oc'd to 4.4Ghz on water powering his gtx280.
I told him that my 3.4Ghz $80 processor (one in my sig) was faster than his and he flipped, most people on the server agreed his was faster. :/

Clock for clock the Pentium D is half as fast as the Pentium Duals (core 2's with 1MB l2 cache like mine).
Asked him what fps he had in Deck and he said "50". I hope he meant to type 60. Because that's just sad.

But did he flip like a gazelle?

It's amazing/sad/annoying how many people think they know "tech", and spread misinformation like a disease. Even on forums like AT.

 

[SlowSpyder]

Originally posted by: soccerballtux
Random story-- noob on some UT3 server was complaining about how his processor wasn't stable. I asked him what processor he had, and he had a Pentium D oc'd to 4.4Ghz on water powering his gtx280.
I told him that my 3.4Ghz $80 processor (one in my sig) was faster than his and he flipped, most people on the server agreed his was faster. :/

Clock for clock the Pentium D is half as fast as the Pentium Duals (core 2's with 1MB l2 cache like mine).
Asked him what fps he had in Deck and he said "50". I hope he meant to type 60. Because that's just sad.

Playing AoC you should hear some of the things I've heard. 8800GT - 9800GT upgrades with noticable (not an exact quote, but something long the lines of the following) "the texture processing is much smoother". Normally I would have tried to correct him, but I'm pretty much a newb at the MMORPG thing and figured I would rather just keep playing.

 

[angry hampster]

Originally posted by: SlowSpyder
Normally I would have tried to correct him, but I'm pretty much a newb at the MMORPG thing and figured I would rather just keep playing.

You should have left.



You should leave anyway; MMORPGs are freakin stupid. :laugh:

 

[Idontcare]

Originally posted by: Flipped Gazelle

Originally posted by: soccerballtux
Random story-- noob on some UT3 server was complaining about how his processor wasn't stable. I asked him what processor he had, and he had a Pentium D oc'd to 4.4Ghz on water powering his gtx280.
I told him that my 3.4Ghz $80 processor (one in my sig) was faster than his and he flipped, most people on the server agreed his was faster. :/

Clock for clock the Pentium D is half as fast as the Pentium Duals (core 2's with 1MB l2 cache like mine).
Asked him what fps he had in Deck and he said "50". I hope he meant to type 60. Because that's just sad.

But did he flip like a gazelle?

It's amazing/sad/annoying how many people think they know "tech", and spread misinformation like a disease. Even on forums like AT.

People are people in all walks of life, it ain't just a tech thing. How many 3/1 ARM mortgages and NINJA loans were taken by people who thought they knew "finance"?

The important thing is to know this segment of society exists, these people are out there, they are our neighbors, our coworkers, in some cases our cousins or siblings or parents. Know the red-flags of these folks, avoid at all costs, regardless the amount of pride swallowing you do while having to listen to them over business lunch or holiday dinner.

 

[aigomorla]

id like for AMD to try to get close to my i7 overclocked on non sub ambient cooling.

I dont think its possible.

Im sorry, your comparing the uber 965 to a lowly AMD 940 which is funny.

Not all of us game, and a lot of us do use 8 threads.

And yes the i7 is faster when its meant to do something it was designed for.

8 > 4 and i7 has 8 threads while the 940 has only 4.

 

[soccerballtux]

Originally posted by: Idontcare

Originally posted by: Flipped Gazelle

Originally posted by: soccerballtux
Random story-- noob on some UT3 server was complaining about how his processor wasn't stable. I asked him what processor he had, and he had a Pentium D oc'd to 4.4Ghz on water powering his gtx280.
I told him that my 3.4Ghz $80 processor (one in my sig) was faster than his and he flipped, most people on the server agreed his was faster. :/

Clock for clock the Pentium D is half as fast as the Pentium Duals (core 2's with 1MB l2 cache like mine).
Asked him what fps he had in Deck and he said "50". I hope he meant to type 60. Because that's just sad.

But did he flip like a gazelle?

It's amazing/sad/annoying how many people think they know "tech", and spread misinformation like a disease. Even on forums like AT.

People are people in all walks of life, it ain't just a tech thing. How many 3/1 ARM mortgages and NINJA loans were taken by people who thought they knew "finance"?

The important thing is to know this segment of society exists, these people are out there, they are our neighbors, our coworkers, in some cases our cousins or siblings or parents. Know the red-flags of these folks, avoid at all costs, regardless the amount of pride swallowing you do while having to listen to them over business lunch or holiday dinner.

IDC this is a very insightful/wise post and gets at the heart of something I've been struggling a lot with lately. In my opinion, there is something that can be said for one who doesn't have to correct others who he knows are wrong. I'm not there yet, I like being right too much .

 

[Dadofamunky]

NINJA - No INcome, Job or Assets... How could the banks have been so stupid? Sorry, don't mean to threadjack. I just think the term is funny...

 

[taltamir]

i see in the review that the i7 920 loses by 1 FPS to the highest end p2 in high res and settings in crysis, while the higher end i7 tie.

While in the low res the higher end i7 have a sizeable advantage while the i7 is 1 fps faster (101 vs 100).

Is this what the op is referring to when you are saying:

I see reviews when as example going to 1920x1200 with games like Far Cry2, Crysis WarHead, Fear2, CoD 4 and WaW with AMD pii 940 beating it out in most or all cases.

If so you should know that there is some natural fluctuations that occur during testing. don't get hung up on 1FPS.

 

[geno]

Originally posted by: Rick James

Originally posted by: Idontcare

Originally posted by: Rick James
http://i234.photobucket.com/al...ld_yorkfield_bloom.png

That's pure sugar right there. :thumbsup: Kudos on pulling all that together!

I actually pulled that from another website but it tells the true story. Clock for clock the Phenom 2 cannot touch an I7.

hm, I wish 1900x1200 gaming benches were up there, too. The PhII looks like it catches up big time the higher the resolution gets.

 

[Idontcare]

Originally posted by: Dadofamunky
NINJA - No INcome, Job or Assets... How could the banks have been so stupid? Sorry, don't mean to threadjack. I just think the term is funny...

To boil it down and put it into few words, it simply wasn't their money they were loaning out.

If someone gives you their money (makes a deposit) and the government says if you lose their money then it will be paid back by the government (i.e. by the taxpayer's taxes, same person who made the deposit to begin with) and you are put into the position of needing to make risky loans if you personally want to earn your paycheck (and possible bonus) this year to pay your own mortgage or finance your family's vacation then you are going to do whatever the law allows you to do, both as a business strategy and a personal career strategy.

The intrinsic problem with the capital market model in this case is that the nearly all the risk is subsidized by the taxpayer and government. Sure the banker loses his job when the house of cards collapsed (Madoff) but they get to keep whatever ill-gotten goods/income they managed to extract from the system in the past while they were setting up the house of cards. (Madoff's wife, Dick Fuld, Henry Paulson, etc)

The only real effective reform that could possibly prevent this situation from developing is to enable legislation/regulation that allows individuals who make these kinds of business/industry destroying executive decisions accountable in a financial sense. Add to the weight/ramifications of their decisions that not only is there the possibility that they are going to destroy a company that employs people and is owned by shareholders but they also could be making a decision that will result in the government seizing all of their family's assets 3-5 yrs down the road.

Making the decision's impact envelope personal is about the only way I can foresee as providing the necessary balance to rampant greed and disregard for shareholder wealth and employee employment viability. Granting stock options and the like is not the same as telling a CEO if they bork a company then the shareholders and government has the right to come after their personal nest-egg they think is safe in that UBS swiss bank account.

 

[cm123]

Originally posted by: taltamir
i see in the review that the i7 920 loses by 1 FPS to the highest end p2 in high res and settings in crysis, while the higher end i7 tie.

While in the low res the higher end i7 have a sizeable advantage while the i7 is 1 fps faster (101 vs 100).

Is this what the op is referring to when you are saying:

I see reviews when as example going to 1920x1200 with games like Far Cry2, Crysis WarHead, Fear2, CoD 4 and WaW with AMD pii 940 beating it out in most or all cases.

If so you should know that there is some natural fluctuations that occur during testing. don't get hung up on 1FPS.

---

yes and no - in nearly all reviews you see, the i7 as whole including 965EE simply beats the crap out of the AMD 940 - however when review is done at playable res, like 1920x1200, example tech spot review at 1920 res, AMD 940 and Intel 965EE tie at warhead, farcry2 AMD wins by +1.

Just makes little sense really, no matter if/when graphic card comes into play, should not Intel hold its own at higher res then too if so much better or more power at lower res?, and then if GPU bound, when toss in 3 cards as hardocp trying to say, AMD gets its butt handed to them (I'm not fully sold on them (hardocp) results...

...of course having both like systems myself (AMD 940 and Intel 965EE), I can only play around to compare myself, however I no have tri-sli, I can only test with HD4870X2 in pairs) - to me this all seems bit off as AMD 940 system just keeps getting a bit faster than my Intel 965EE system (I have to add though, I'm not a big benchmark guy, nor over-clocker, nor claim to be, nor would ever get into posting my oc and bench results, I'll leave that to many of you here that do just fine with that).

AMD has higher system bandwidth, so if its GPU bound, would not as add more graphic bandwidth AMD keep its lead? and why should AMD ever lead when supposedly at low res Intel hands it to AMD.


Isn't it nice to know if you're like me and own (pricey) 965EE that is so much better per all the benchmarks say, that in real life res, when I'm playing FarCry2, WarHead, WaW that my much cheaper supposed gets it butt handed to it AMD 940 system is actually the same to slightly faster?


So has it come to companies making product to bench the top spot or provide the best playing platform today?

Some one above hit on not everyone games - I did clearly post when gaming - so gaming is all that my post was talking about, however I know some buy i7 for different reasons, however for those who use as basic home system and then gaming, well its not as cut and dry of solution it would seem to me.

 

[Tempered81]

Originally posted by: Rick James

Originally posted by: Idontcare

Originally posted by: Rick James
http://i234.photobucket.com/al...ld_yorkfield_bloom.png

That's pure sugar right there. :thumbsup: Kudos on pulling all that together!

I actually pulled that from another website but it tells the true story. Clock for clock the Phenom 2 cannot touch an I7.

except that it is faster (clock for clock) than the i7 at high-end gaming

 

[Dravic]

Originally posted by: jaredpace

Originally posted by: Rick James

Originally posted by: Idontcare

Originally posted by: Rick James
http://i234.photobucket.com/al...ld_yorkfield_bloom.png

That's pure sugar right there. :thumbsup: Kudos on pulling all that together!

I actually pulled that from another website but it tells the true story. Clock for clock the Phenom 2 cannot touch an I7.

except that it is faster (clock for clock) than the i7 at high-end gaming

At high resolution single card gaming would be a better description, as the extra threads do help tremendously to feed the GPU's in the high end dual and tri sli configurations. But that's not a market many people (even here on AT) fall into.

 

[soccerballtux]

I think the fundamental problem is we cannot prove that a CPU bound game at low resolution will, in the future, translate to a CPU bound game with a much faster graphics card at a higher resolution. IE, if we upgrade the card, then in a future game, we'll exhibit CPU limitations like the benchmarks show us with current gen games and low resolutions.

 

[imported_Redmist]

Originally posted by: SlowSpyder

Originally posted by: soccerballtux
Random story-- noob on some UT3 server was complaining about how his processor wasn't stable. I asked him what processor he had, and he had a Pentium D oc'd to 4.4Ghz on water powering his gtx280.
I told him that my 3.4Ghz $80 processor (one in my sig) was faster than his and he flipped, most people on the server agreed his was faster. :/

Clock for clock the Pentium D is half as fast as the Pentium Duals (core 2's with 1MB l2 cache like mine).
Asked him what fps he had in Deck and he said "50". I hope he meant to type 60. Because that's just sad.

Playing AoC you should hear some of the things I've heard. 8800GT - 9800GT upgrades with noticable (not an exact quote, but something long the lines of the following) "the texture processing is much smoother". Normally I would have tried to correct him, but I'm pretty much a newb at the MMORPG thing and figured I would rather just keep playing.

you should of hunted that person down and camped his ass with multiple fatalities!

talking to people in AOC or their forums about computer hadware.
I tryed getting recommendations about what is the best setup to play AOC with and I would get blanket statements like:
"go with intel, amd sucks"
"go with ATI because nvidia drivers suck"
"dont get quads because this game doesnt use more than 1 core"
"this game is gpu bound so get 3 video cards"
"i get 200fps with my onboard video and 2k dollar cpu"

I get dumber and dumber when I read that stuff.

 

[imported_Scoop]

Originally posted by: RMSe17
Wow.. after seeing these benchmarks I am strongly considering getting a C2Q or maybe even a Phenom 2. I was all set on getting the i7 920, been waiting for D0, but now I wonder.. why pay more $$ for equal or lower performance in games? At higher heat levels too... Sure i7 can RAR stuff faster than anything on the planet, but when it comes down to it, I play games more than run the installations for them... My world got turned upside down. thanks

Welcome to the real world.

 

[Idontcare]

Originally posted by: Scoop

Originally posted by: RMSe17
Wow.. after seeing these benchmarks I am strongly considering getting a C2Q or maybe even a Phenom 2. I was all set on getting the i7 920, been waiting for D0, but now I wonder.. why pay more $$ for equal or lower performance in games? At higher heat levels too... Sure i7 can RAR stuff faster than anything on the planet, but when it comes down to it, I play games more than run the installations for them... My world got turned upside down. thanks

Welcome to the real world.

Ha ha, someone just swallowed the red pill without realizing it until it was too late :laugh:

 

[Fox5]

Originally posted by: veri745
It's not "beating" the i7 at high resolutions, it's more or less tied with it. The reason for this is that at high resolutions, the GPU is the framerate bottleneck, and the processor matters less and less.

Back with the core 2's, at really high settings, AMD systems sometimes took a substantial lead (close to 50% in rare instances) over the core 2's (with phenoms). Probably because hypertransport allowed the vid card more memory bandwidth.

With the i7, it seems the i7 leads even at high settings, but I suppose there could be rare instances where the latency of AMD's setup is better. Not to mention that hyperthreading can hurt performance under saturated loads if there isn't work for each thread to do (on the i7).

 

[cm123]

Originally posted by: Fox5

Originally posted by: veri745
It's not "beating" the i7 at high resolutions, it's more or less tied with it. The reason for this is that at high resolutions, the GPU is the framerate bottleneck, and the processor matters less and less.

Back with the core 2's, at really high settings, AMD systems sometimes took a substantial lead (close to 50% in rare instances) over the core 2's (with phenoms). Probably because hypertransport allowed the vid card more memory bandwidth.

With the i7, it seems the i7 leads even at high settings, but I suppose there could be rare instances where the latency of AMD's setup is better. Not to mention that hyperthreading can hurt performance under saturated loads if there isn't work for each thread to do (on the i7).

how do you get fact that i7 leads even at high settings? not a single review I can find at 1920x1200 or higher does even the i7 965EE take the lead from just a AMD 940.

only way it seems at playable res can make the AMD slower is to use 3 Nvidia based cards in SLi - and even at that I'm not so certain site unseen I trust fully in that review as hands on with 2 HD4870X2 on AMD 940 vs Intel i7 965EE system, my 965EE does not turn higher frame-rates in real res (1920x1200) - actually see AMD 940 system take few more frames lead then - go figure that...

that is my point, how in the heck can such a pricey cpu get beat by such a cheap, how come see all the reviews (lots more at least) pushing Intel as the gaming cpu to get when at playable res Intel does not beat AMD - is Intel a great benchmark CPU when comes to games or what explains this really???

 

[dmens]

^

what part of GPU bottleneck don't you understand?

http://www.guru3d.com/article/...me-performance-review/

 

[dennilfloss]

Originally posted by: Rick James
People still run a single GPU these days? Thats no fun

Some of us aren't rich.

 

[Accord99]

Originally posted by: cm123
how do you get fact that i7 leads even at high settings? not a single review I can find at 1920x1200 or higher does even the i7 965EE take the lead from just a AMD

With a GTX 295, Legionhardware has a 2.1GHz i7 roughly equal to a 3.6GHz Phenom 940 at high resolution.

http://www.legionhardware.com/document.php?id=807&p=5

With a 4870X2, Firingsquad finds the i7 920 to be dominant in games:

http://www.firingsquad.com/har..._performance/page8.asp

 

[cm123]

Originally posted by: dmens
^

what part of GPU bottleneck don't you understand?

http://www.guru3d.com/article/...me-performance-review/

none of it considering all things - actually was not really talking about mult-gpu, since brought, still I'll ask - 1 why then if for gaming even bother blowing huge cash (as I did) on Intel i7 965EE when AMD Pii 940 is faster in gaming - 2, so what changes so much so that AMD at 640 or 800 res in benchmarks no beats Intel, yet in real every day res for many it does?

As far as Multi-GPU, below is clip and link with just that, GTX 295 with i7 965EE vs AMD x4 940 -my hands on finds with HD4870X2 that AMD actually is faster in multi-gpu, however guess with nvidia in them i7 wins slightly and in some cases about ties - of course review below is of only 2 gpu's, not tri or quad:


From Legionhardware GTX295 cpu scaling:
Phenom II X4 series, it does start to make a lot of sense when you look at the 2560x1600 performance. The Phenom II X4 940 was just 4fps slower than the Core i7 series in Company of Heroes at 2560x1600, 3fps in Crysis Warhead, 1fps in Far Cry 2, 1fps in Unreal Tournament 3, 5fps in World in Conflict, with the biggest upset being a 14fps loss in Left 4 Dead, while the Fallout 3 performance was identical.

Ideally, those planning on gaming with a $500 US graphics card capable of smooth gameplay at 2560x1600 with full in game graphics enabled, are likely going to do so. Therefore the Phenom II X4 940 does make sense, as it is able to almost match the performance of the world?s fastest processors. So then rather than spending $340 US on a Core 2 Quad Q9650, or $560 US for a Core i7 940 processor, why not just buy the Phenom II X4 940 for $230 US?

click HERE

 

[cm123]

Originally posted by: Accord99

Originally posted by: cm123
how do you get fact that i7 leads even at high settings? not a single review I can find at 1920x1200 or higher does even the i7 965EE take the lead from just a AMD

With a GTX 295, Legionhardware has a 2.1GHz i7 roughly equal to a 3.6GHz Phenom 940 at high resolution.

http://www.legionhardware.com/document.php?id=807&p=5

With a 4870X2, Firingsquad finds the i7 920 to be dominant in games:

http://www.firingsquad.com/har..._performance/page8.asp

the 4870x2 is interesting, as the other reviews all have AMD 940 and Intel 965EE tied or AMD slighty ahead at higher res - however I would expect Intel based system to over take AMD one like in that review as it did - not seeing that though at other review sites, nor am seeing Intel beating AMD in even 1600x1200 res like in that review with my own hands on.


Would be very interesting to see a honest review with AMD x4 series and Intel i7 series for gaming, with 1600 and up res, stock clocks, everything cranked up as many of us would play it, and then with 1 of each, HD4870X2, GTX 295, GTX285, HD4870 1GB and then SLi and crossfire of each on each of these platforms with each platform having at least 8GB of memory to take all possible chance of any memory things all together out of the pic. As far as oc'ing, we all know can gain some speed, save that for a oc review, same thing for low res testing and turning off all the graphic settings in the games too, leave them on.

I guess would then be bit more of plat-form test... still be interesting

 

[Flipped Gazelle]

Originally posted by: Accord99

Originally posted by: cm123
how do you get fact that i7 leads even at high settings? not a single review I can find at 1920x1200 or higher does even the i7 965EE take the lead from just a AMD

With a GTX 295, Legionhardware has a 2.1GHz i7 roughly equal to a 3.6GHz Phenom 940 at high resolution.

http://www.legionhardware.com/document.php?id=807&p=5

With a 4870X2, Firingsquad finds the i7 920 to be dominant in games:

http://www.firingsquad.com/har..._performance/page8.asp

I'm curious, did you actually look thru all of the benchmarks in that 1st link? In some of them, the PhII @ 3.6 equals/edges the i7 @ 3.6.

And, in the FS benchies, in most of the games all of the "top" CPU's are pretty tightly bunched when the games are run at 1600x1200 w/the highest settings. The only deviation from that was with L4D, where the i7 came out on top.