Just Curious... how much has the illegal problem in California has contributed to their economic fall out?

[Slew Foot]

F the illegals. F them all the way to hell.

The easiest way to get rid of them? Toss any employer in jail for a couple years for every illegal in their service. Without jobs, theyll leave themselves.

 

[First]

There are 2-3M illegals in CA depending on how you count, so 2.5M is probably a reasonable guesstimate. Based on legal immigrant consumption trends (let's say Mexican-only for argument's sake), an illegal Mexican family of 5 (2 parents plus 2.7 children, which was their replacement rate last I checked two years ago), illegal immigrant consumption alone would yield $7B in revenue for the state, a conservative estimate. There's also the cold, hard reality that studies show illegals have a clear net positive benefit economically:

Because of the shift in domestic production, some domestic workers, especially the less skilled ones, who had been working in industry X, may now have to move to industry Y. In addition to wage effects, immigration has "displacement" effects. Some domestic workers will be "displaced" by immigrants, in the sense that they will now have to work in a different industry.

In the simple model, we are assuming that the process of displacement is costless, in that displaced workers will eventually find employment in the other sector. This is a good characterization of the long run, but in the short run adjustment does have costs. It may take time to find this new job, with all the anxiety associated with that search. Changing jobs may mean moving out of one's neighborhood, city, or even region, with a loss of family, friends, and familiar schools and churches. Many Americans who perceive themselves to be displaced by immigrants resent having to make this adjustment. ?Perceive" is an important word in this sentence because an attribution problem emerges when it comes to immigration. Some may associate their displacement with immigrant when the real cause lies elsewhere.

Whatever it costs, more efficient domestic production is not the only gain from immigration. There is also the gain associated with specialization in consumption. Just as the presence of immigrants allows natives to specialize in production, it allows them to consume something different from what they can produce themselves. As a nation, we may be very good at producing good Y, but we really like good X. Immigration is one way we can have the best of both worlds; making what we are good at and also consuming what we like. The welfare gain from shifting production toward more valuable activities that use the relatively more skilled native labor, and the gain in consumption toward commodities whose cast has fallen.

In sum, the net welfare gains from immigration stem from two sources. By having immigrants specialize in the production of goods requiring a lot of low-killed labor, it allows us to shift our domestic production toward those goods (Y) in which natives are relatively efficient (those that need a lot of skilled labor) and away from those that can be produced more cheaply by immigrants. The second component is the gain in consumption. Before immigration (and with no international trade), we could consume only that which we could produce domestically. Immigration breaks this rigid link between domestic consumption and domestic production, allowing us to produce goods of which we are relatively efficient producers and to consume those good that conform to our tastes.

http://books.google.com/books?...NXR3ygRComdM#PPA145,M1

So overall, it's always, well, intriguing to think that illegal immigration has a net negative impact economically, but reality is a far different story, backed by statistics and observation. Any other study or data on the matter would, of course, be interesting to read. Ultimately, it won't yield anything different than what has already proven to be shown. The only issue seems to be rapid and massive overpopulation of immigrants (illegal or not), a sort of "shock" to the system, if it exceeds 15% of the U.S. population in a given area.

 

[shira]

Originally posted by: Socio

Originally posted by: shira

Originally posted by: Socio
More info;

Illegal Aliens Cost LA County Over $1 Billion Per Year

Again, this report doesn't indicate how much illegals pay into the system.

In many, many cases, state income axes are withheld from the pay of illegals, but they don't file tax returns and don't get valid refunds.

That would be the exception not the rule, even then they could only be using either a fake Social Security number or a stolen one as they can not obtain a real one due to their illegal status.

The fact is the only taxes they all pay are taxes like sales taxes, gas taxes because they can not be avoided.

Your are incorrect:

USA Today article

NASHVILLE ? The tax system collects its due, even from a class of workers with little likelihood of claiming a refund and no hope of drawing a Social Security check.

Illegal immigrants are paying taxes to Uncle Sam, experts agree. Just how much they pay is hard to determine because the federal government doesn't fully tally it. But the latest figures available indicate it will amount to billions of dollars in federal income, Social Security and Medicare taxes this year. One rough estimate puts the amount of Social Security taxes alone at around $9 billion per year.

Paycheck withholding collects much of the federal tax from illegal workers, just as it does for legal workers.

The Internal Revenue Service doesn't track a worker's immigration status, yet many illegal immigrants fearful of deportation won't risk the government attention that will come from filing a return even if they might qualify for a refund. Economist William Ford of Middle Tennessee State University says there are no firm figures on how many such taxpayers there are.

"The real question is how many of them pay more than they owe. There are undoubtedly hundreds of thousands of people in that situation," Ford said.
.
.
.
The Social Security Administration estimates that about three-quarters of illegal workers pay taxes that contribute to the overall solvency of Social Security and Medicare.

And the article doesn't even address the fact that if federal income tax is withheld, so is state income tax. Also, as was pointed out in an earlier post, when illegals pay rent, that contributes to the property tax paid by landlords, which in turn funds public schools.

I have NEVER seen a comprehensive analysis of the costs/benefits of illegals. The anti-illegals crowd just spouts numbers on the cost side, a transparently dishonest method of argumentation. Understandable, I suppose, for the intellectually fraudulent among us who just HAVE to have their scapegoats.

My own gut feeling is that illegals put more into the system than they take out.

 

[babylon5]

Conclusion from the above two posts: Illegals = pure revenue profit for USA, therefore if we got even more of them coming, they'll save USA from this economic crisis because all they bring in is money for USA and no other problems

:frown:

 

[Nemesis 1]

Rather than point a finger at a race. Ask yourself this. What native American Government has ever done well . The ANs. Is zero. Hasn't anyone ever wonder why North american indians didn't Migrate south. Why would runaway slaves go back to their beginnings. North American Indians aren't Lazy. They just said NO. Were not in this game. Ya know what . In the whole of the world. The North American Indian Are the only ones not playing in the game. Now some tribes got in threw gambling. There loss. But Other than that . Very honorable people. They had the courage to just say no. Don't you think we tried to make them slaves, We did . But they couldn't be made slaves . They choose death first. My kind of men. Maybe a few natives from down under that Have held strong also.

 

[Steeplerot]

I got an idea:
Lets deport all the trailer trash Republican voting European squatter descended central valley folks, how much would we save not having to put out fires from meth labs?
Think of the savings to the state in dental bills and bad governors also!
You guys do know the blame game is utterly stupid right?

 

[First]

^ Psst, you'll first have to explain babylon5 where either post said that illegals bring "no other problems". The overwhelming evidence suggests illegals provide more economic positives than negatives, based on the data (which is limited in some aspects, that is obvious and why the Census needs to be more comprehensive). So that means illegals have their negatives, of course, but that applies to any group of people anywhere, including the "native" U.S. residents that might as well time travel back to the 17th century America.

Truth is the U.S. has been built on the back of legal and illegal immigrants. The overwhelming preference is to get them to eventually gain citizenship, unfortunately it's not that simple or perfect a world. They commit crimes at a rate lower than the native population and bring all sorts of other cultural and moral implications that go beyond dollar and cents anyway. But if you want to make the dollars and cents argument, it's not hard to do, and frankly anyone still spouting off what a drag they are on the U.S. economy either refuses to look at the overwhelming data or never paid attention in high school math.

 

[boomerang]

So the road to prosperity is to open the borders and let anyone in anytime they want? My word, has someone informed Congress? Our problems here could be over in no time.

If breaking immigration laws is good for the country. It only stands to reason that if we remove them completely, prosperity will flow.

 

[First]

^ I'm unaware of anyone here saying uncontrolled legal and/or illegal immigration is always good. In fact, it was explicitly stated that is not the case.

 

[Socio]

Originally posted by: Evan
There are 2-3M illegals in CA depending on how you count, so 2.5M is probably a reasonable guesstimate. Based on legal immigrant consumption trends (let's say Mexican-only for argument's sake), an illegal Mexican family of 5 (2 parents plus 2.7 children, which was their replacement rate last I checked two years ago), illegal immigrant consumption alone would yield $7B in revenue for the state, a conservative estimate. There's also the cold, hard reality that studies show illegals have a clear net positive benefit economically:

Because of the shift in domestic production, some domestic workers, especially the less skilled ones, who had been working in industry X, may now have to move to industry Y. In addition to wage effects, immigration has "displacement" effects. Some domestic workers will be "displaced" by immigrants, in the sense that they will now have to work in a different industry.

In the simple model, we are assuming that the process of displacement is costless, in that displaced workers will eventually find employment in the other sector. This is a good characterization of the long run, but in the short run adjustment does have costs. It may take time to find this new job, with all the anxiety associated with that search. Changing jobs may mean moving out of one's neighborhood, city, or even region, with a loss of family, friends, and familiar schools and churches. Many Americans who perceive themselves to be displaced by immigrants resent having to make this adjustment. ?Perceive" is an important word in this sentence because an attribution problem emerges when it comes to immigration. Some may associate their displacement with immigrant when the real cause lies elsewhere.

Whatever it costs, more efficient domestic production is not the only gain from immigration. There is also the gain associated with specialization in consumption. Just as the presence of immigrants allows natives to specialize in production, it allows them to consume something different from what they can produce themselves. As a nation, we may be very good at producing good Y, but we really like good X. Immigration is one way we can have the best of both worlds; making what we are good at and also consuming what we like. The welfare gain from shifting production toward more valuable activities that use the relatively more skilled native labor, and the gain in consumption toward commodities whose cast has fallen.

In sum, the net welfare gains from immigration stem from two sources. By having immigrants specialize in the production of goods requiring a lot of low-killed labor, it allows us to shift our domestic production toward those goods (Y) in which natives are relatively efficient (those that need a lot of skilled labor) and away from those that can be produced more cheaply by immigrants. The second component is the gain in consumption. Before immigration (and with no international trade), we could consume only that which we could produce domestically. Immigration breaks this rigid link between domestic consumption and domestic production, allowing us to produce goods of which we are relatively efficient producers and to consume those good that conform to our tastes.

http://books.google.com/books?...NXR3ygRComdM#PPA145,M1

So overall, it's always, well, intriguing to think that illegal immigration has a net negative impact economically, but reality is a far different story, backed by statistics and observation. Any other study or data on the matter would, of course, be interesting to read. Ultimately, it won't yield anything different than what has already proven to be shown. The only issue seems to be rapid and massive overpopulation of immigrants (illegal or not), a sort of "shock" to the system, if it exceeds 15% of the U.S. population in a given area.

Your comparing legal and illegal immigrants, that is like comparing apple and oranges.

Rising health care costs

At the state and local level, illegal immigrants already cost more in public services such as education and health care than they pay in taxes, the Congressional Budget Office reported recently. Illegal immigrants make up less than 5% of the cost in most states, but closer to 10% in some California counties. In 2000, counties along the Mexican border lost more than $800 million in health care services for which they were not paid; about 25% of that went to care for illegal immigrants, according to a report by the United States/Mexico Border Counties Coalition.

Do illegal immigrants receive more government benefits than they pay in taxes?

"The average illegal immigrant family receives an average of $30,000 in governmental benefits! Yet they pay only about $9,000 in taxes per year. That creates a $21,000 shortfall that the American taxpayer has to make up. That's like buying each of the illegal immigrant families a brand new Mustang convertible -- each and every year!"

You tack on other costs like Border patrol, ICE, incarceration, (25-30percent of our prison inmate population are illegal?s), legal system costs for those being incarcerated etc?. You will find the total cost of illegal immigrants is overwhelmingly disproportionate to their benefit.

 

[nobodyknows]

Originally posted by: TheRedUnderURBed
I got an idea:
Lets deport all the trailer trash Republican voting European squatter descended central valley folks, how much would we save not having to put out fires from meth labs?
Think of the savings to the state in dental bills and bad governors also!
You guys do know the blame game is utterly stupid right?

Gee, aren't you a smart one. After that little temper tantrum I now know better then to take anything you say seriously.

Go crawl back under your bed.

 

[nobodyknows]

Originally posted by: babylon5
Conclusion from the above two posts: Illegals = pure revenue profit for USA, therefore if we got even more of them coming, they'll save USA from this economic crisis because all they bring in is money for USA and no other problems

:frown:

There you go, why should we have a taxpayer funded economic stimulus bill when all we need to do is bring another 20 million illegals in and everything will be A-OK!!

Change we can believe in!

 

[Socio]

Originally posted by: shira

Originally posted by: Socio

Originally posted by: shira

Originally posted by: Socio
More info;

Illegal Aliens Cost LA County Over $1 Billion Per Year

Again, this report doesn't indicate how much illegals pay into the system.

In many, many cases, state income axes are withheld from the pay of illegals, but they don't file tax returns and don't get valid refunds.

That would be the exception not the rule, even then they could only be using either a fake Social Security number or a stolen one as they can not obtain a real one due to their illegal status.

The fact is the only taxes they all pay are taxes like sales taxes, gas taxes because they can not be avoided.

Your are incorrect:

USA Today article

NASHVILLE ? The tax system collects its due, even from a class of workers with little likelihood of claiming a refund and no hope of drawing a Social Security check.

Illegal immigrants are paying taxes to Uncle Sam, experts agree. Just how much they pay is hard to determine because the federal government doesn't fully tally it. But the latest figures available indicate it will amount to billions of dollars in federal income, Social Security and Medicare taxes this year. One rough estimate puts the amount of Social Security taxes alone at around $9 billion per year.

Paycheck withholding collects much of the federal tax from illegal workers, just as it does for legal workers.

The Internal Revenue Service doesn't track a worker's immigration status, yet many illegal immigrants fearful of deportation won't risk the government attention that will come from filing a return even if they might qualify for a refund. Economist William Ford of Middle Tennessee State University says there are no firm figures on how many such taxpayers there are.

"The real question is how many of them pay more than they owe. There are undoubtedly hundreds of thousands of people in that situation," Ford said.
.
.
.
The Social Security Administration estimates that about three-quarters of illegal workers pay taxes that contribute to the overall solvency of Social Security and Medicare.

And the article doesn't even address the fact that if federal income tax is withheld, so is state income tax. Also, as was pointed out in an earlier post, when illegals pay rent, that contributes to the property tax paid by landlords, which in turn funds public schools.

I have NEVER seen a comprehensive analysis of the costs/benefits of illegals. The anti-illegals crowd just spouts numbers on the cost side, a transparently dishonest method of argumentation. Understandable, I suppose, for the intellectually fraudulent among us who just HAVE to have their scapegoats.

My own gut feeling is that illegals put more into the system than they take out.

Again that would be only the ones that use fraudulent SS numbers, whom may get taxes withheld but not file a return and they would be the exception as a good portion of them work for under the table wages.

 

[boomerang]

Originally posted by: Evan
^ I'm unaware of anyone here saying uncontrolled legal and/or illegal immigration is always good. In fact, it was explicitly stated that is not the case.

Here's one to chew on. Illegal immigration by it's very defininition is uncontrolled. There are numerous posts in this thread with people expounding on their thinking that illegal immigration is a positive thing. You included.

Legal immigration is positive, illegal is not. It can't be any simpler than that. When is rape justified? Murder? We have laws that make these things illegal for a reason.

 

[Modelworks]

What some of you are not getting is that when illegals come here they usually don't come alone, many come with their families. I live in a area with a high illegal population. I also have a cousin who manages the local social services. The problem isn't people that come here single and work and pay taxes. It is the ones that bring families. Usually the way this works is that the mother will come here pregnant . If she has the child here , that child is now a US citizen. The mother and child get full support from the state, regardless of her status because of the child. If she has more minor children that are here illegally, they are now covered also. So a pregnant woman can come here with 5 children and after having the child will then get full state coverage for all 6 children and herself without ever paying a dime.

 

[L00PY]

Originally posted by: Socio

Originally posted by: shira
And the article doesn't even address the fact that if federal income tax is withheld, so is state income tax. Also, as was pointed out in an earlier post, when illegals pay rent, that contributes to the property tax paid by landlords, which in turn funds public schools.

Again that would be only the ones that use fraudulent SS numbers, whom may get taxes withheld but not file a return and they would be the exception as a good portion of them work for under the table wages.

So we have some illegals using fraudulent SS numbers and paying taxes. We also have employers that are not withholding taxes from their employees, some of whom may be illegal aliens. These are two separate issues. Employers paying wages under the table are the problem as even US citizens getting wages under the table are likely to either not report all that income or any of it at all.

Originally posted by: boomerang

Originally posted by: Evan
^ I'm unaware of anyone here saying uncontrolled legal and/or illegal immigration is always good. In fact, it was explicitly stated that is not the case.

Here's one to chew on. Illegal immigration by it's very defininition is uncontrolled. There are numerous posts in this thread with people expounding on their thinking that illegal immigration is a positive thing. You included.

Legal immigration is positive, illegal is not. It can't be any simpler than that. When is rape justified? Murder? We have laws that make these things illegal for a reason.

By that logic, does it follow that anti-miscegenation laws mean that it was justified preventing two people of difference races from having sex or getting married? Or when prohibition was in effect. Was drinking alcohol a negative thing only during those years?

Some laws are on the books because they are just; some out of racism or bigotry; some for purely political reasons; some for moral reasons.

 

[Nemesis 1]

I have a plan . We all know that we have a prison problem . Sense Mexico isn't trying to stop border crossings.

Take all are convicts drive to the borders and let them go . Its the same trash were getting from Mexico. Tell them ya come back . No Trial no nothing just firing squad and be done withit . Hell there killing in my county now . It doesn't even make the news. I agree its not news . Its same shit differant day.

 

[ayabe]

From the Title:

"not one reporter has had the nuts to ask this question..."

No because there isn't a correct answer to the question, no matter what the cost will either be too high or too low depending on who wants to know.

 

[First]

Originally posted by: Socio

Originally posted by: Evan
There are 2-3M illegals in CA depending on how you count, so 2.5M is probably a reasonable guesstimate. Based on legal immigrant consumption trends (let's say Mexican-only for argument's sake), an illegal Mexican family of 5 (2 parents plus 2.7 children, which was their replacement rate last I checked two years ago), illegal immigrant consumption alone would yield $7B in revenue for the state, a conservative estimate. There's also the cold, hard reality that studies show illegals have a clear net positive benefit economically:

Because of the shift in domestic production, some domestic workers, especially the less skilled ones, who had been working in industry X, may now have to move to industry Y. In addition to wage effects, immigration has "displacement" effects. Some domestic workers will be "displaced" by immigrants, in the sense that they will now have to work in a different industry.

In the simple model, we are assuming that the process of displacement is costless, in that displaced workers will eventually find employment in the other sector. This is a good characterization of the long run, but in the short run adjustment does have costs. It may take time to find this new job, with all the anxiety associated with that search. Changing jobs may mean moving out of one's neighborhood, city, or even region, with a loss of family, friends, and familiar schools and churches. Many Americans who perceive themselves to be displaced by immigrants resent having to make this adjustment. ?Perceive" is an important word in this sentence because an attribution problem emerges when it comes to immigration. Some may associate their displacement with immigrant when the real cause lies elsewhere.

Whatever it costs, more efficient domestic production is not the only gain from immigration. There is also the gain associated with specialization in consumption. Just as the presence of immigrants allows natives to specialize in production, it allows them to consume something different from what they can produce themselves. As a nation, we may be very good at producing good Y, but we really like good X. Immigration is one way we can have the best of both worlds; making what we are good at and also consuming what we like. The welfare gain from shifting production toward more valuable activities that use the relatively more skilled native labor, and the gain in consumption toward commodities whose cast has fallen.

In sum, the net welfare gains from immigration stem from two sources. By having immigrants specialize in the production of goods requiring a lot of low-killed labor, it allows us to shift our domestic production toward those goods (Y) in which natives are relatively efficient (those that need a lot of skilled labor) and away from those that can be produced more cheaply by immigrants. The second component is the gain in consumption. Before immigration (and with no international trade), we could consume only that which we could produce domestically. Immigration breaks this rigid link between domestic consumption and domestic production, allowing us to produce goods of which we are relatively efficient producers and to consume those good that conform to our tastes.

http://books.google.com/books?...NXR3ygRComdM#PPA145,M1

So overall, it's always, well, intriguing to think that illegal immigration has a net negative impact economically, but reality is a far different story, backed by statistics and observation. Any other study or data on the matter would, of course, be interesting to read. Ultimately, it won't yield anything different than what has already proven to be shown. The only issue seems to be rapid and massive overpopulation of immigrants (illegal or not), a sort of "shock" to the system, if it exceeds 15% of the U.S. population in a given area.

Your comparing legal and illegal immigrants, that is like comparing apple and oranges.

Rising health care costs

At the state and local level, illegal immigrants already cost more in public services such as education and health care than they pay in taxes, the Congressional Budget Office reported recently. Illegal immigrants make up less than 5% of the cost in most states, but closer to 10% in some California counties. In 2000, counties along the Mexican border lost more than $800 million in health care services for which they were not paid; about 25% of that went to care for illegal immigrants, according to a report by the United States/Mexico Border Counties Coalition.

Do illegal immigrants receive more government benefits than they pay in taxes?

"The average illegal immigrant family receives an average of $30,000 in governmental benefits! Yet they pay only about $9,000 in taxes per year. That creates a $21,000 shortfall that the American taxpayer has to make up. That's like buying each of the illegal immigrant families a brand new Mustang convertible -- each and every year!"

You tack on other costs like Border patrol, ICE, incarceration, (25-30percent of our prison inmate population are illegal?s), legal system costs for those being incarcerated etc?. You will find the total cost of illegal immigrants is overwhelmingly disproportionate to their benefit.

No, it's not disproportionate and if anything you just proved my point by not being able to come up with $7B in costs, which is the conservative amount illegals consume in CA. Get over it.

 

[First]

Originally posted by: boomerang

Originally posted by: Evan
^ I'm unaware of anyone here saying uncontrolled legal and/or illegal immigration is always good. In fact, it was explicitly stated that is not the case.

Here's one to chew on. Illegal immigration by it's very defininition is uncontrolled. There are numerous posts in this thread with people expounding on their thinking that illegal immigration is a positive thing. You included.

Legal immigration is positive, illegal is not. It can't be any simpler than that. When is rape justified? Murder? We have laws that make these things illegal for a reason.

It's not really that simple and apparently you're unable to explain otherwise.

 

[boomerang]

Originally posted by: L00PY

Originally posted by: boomerang

Originally posted by: Evan
^ I'm unaware of anyone here saying uncontrolled legal and/or illegal immigration is always good. In fact, it was explicitly stated that is not the case.

Here's one to chew on. Illegal immigration by it's very definition is uncontrolled. There are numerous posts in this thread with people expounding on their thinking that illegal immigration is a positive thing. You included.

Legal immigration is positive, illegal is not. It can't be any simpler than that. When is rape justified? Murder? We have laws that make these things illegal for a reason.

By that logic, does it follow that anti-miscegenation laws mean that it was justified preventing two people of difference races from having sex or getting married? Or when prohibition was in effect. Was drinking alcohol a negative thing only during those years?

Some laws are on the books because they are just; some out of racism or bigotry; some for purely political reasons; some for moral reasons.

Pick apart my logic all you want. If you feel that certain laws are unjust, immoral, or politically motivated, you're free to do so. But what you are abdicating is ignoring the law and allowing people to come to this country under illegal circumstances. Illegal under the law as it stands right now. I'll repeat - Illegal under the law as it stands right now.

As children, most of us are taught that there are consequences to our actions. Some choose to ignore that. The consequences of illegal immigration have contributed greatly to the economic downfall of California. The facts and figures are out there and have been linked to in this thread. The prevailing mindset in California seems to be that they should not have to change their ways, that a better alternative is to let the other 49 states share in the misery that should be theirs and theirs alone. Well I'm not buying into that one.

My state (Michigan) has had it's economy in the toilet for close to nine years now. But we do have a balanced budget. We live within our means and I have zero desire for my tax dollars going to a state that embraces illegal immigration. Especially on the bleeding-heart liberal level to which they've raised it.

If you don't like our immigration laws, get with your representatives in Congress and work to get them changed. The mindset in Washington right now is as favorable as it's probably ever going to get in this regard. In the meantime, this nation and California, should follow the immigration laws we have in place right now.

If California doesn't wish to follow the law, they need to grow up and accept the consequences without putting their hand out to the rest of the nation.

 

[BoomerD]

Originally posted by: Evan

Originally posted by: boomerang

Originally posted by: Evan
^ I'm unaware of anyone here saying uncontrolled legal and/or illegal immigration is always good. In fact, it was explicitly stated that is not the case.

Here's one to chew on. Illegal immigration by it's very defininition is uncontrolled. There are numerous posts in this thread with people expounding on their thinking that illegal immigration is a positive thing. You included.

Legal immigration is positive, illegal is not. It can't be any simpler than that. When is rape justified? Murder? We have laws that make these things illegal for a reason.

It's not really that simple and apparently you're unable to explain otherwise.

No, it IS really that easy...

http://www.americanpatrol.com/REFERENCE/isacrime.html

and the links from the site:

http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/...ch.pl?title=8&sec=1325

http://www.fairus.org/site/Pag...rationissuecenters6ce3

 

[First]

Saying illegal immigration is a crime obfuscates the reality of the situation, which is far more anthropologically complicated than you'd like to admit. Jaywalking is a crime as well and every single person in the country is guilty of it, but you don't see people lined up to prosecute it. Obviously the degree to which you commit a crime matters, otherwise you'd be calling out Jaywalkers just as fervently. And knowing that reality, it is not simply a matter of enforcing the law when it comes to illegal immigration, there are undeniable practical matters that can't be resolved that way, like the fact that there are already millions of illegals here to begin with. The courts and the American people agree too, otherwise we'd deport them all like most wingnuts want.

 

[First]

Originally posted by: boomerang

As children, most of us are taught that there are consequences to our actions. Some choose to ignore that. The consequences of illegal immigration have contributed greatly to the economic downfall of California. The facts and figures are out there and have been linked to in this thread. The prevailing mindset in California seems to be that they should not have to change their ways, that a better alternative is to let the other 49 states share in the misery that should be theirs and theirs alone. Well I'm not buying into that one.

The facts and figures are definitely out there, and as I said before, you either refuse to read the studies or failed high school math if you don't come to the conclusion that, despite being here illegally, they actually end up providing a net positive economic benefit. The only study that shows illegals providing a net negative economic impact are the ones that admit that, for the most part, it's confined to areas of well over 15% illegal populations. Considering California stands at 8%, it's not really surprising the net economic benefits of illegals are agreed upon by a consensus of economists.

 

[Ozoned]

Well, we never had a problem like this before they arrived.