Just another way to shaft the poor

[tallest1]

Originally posted by: sandorski
Wow. I could see a justification for higher Interest Rates on late Payments, but higher Rates for the Product itself? What's next, McD's 99c Menu for A Raters and $1.29 Menu for Low/No Credit?

A better analogy would be 99c Menu for slim folks and $1.29 menu for fatties.

 

[Kibbo]

Whether or not this action will end up being good or bad depends largely on how truly competitive the marketplace in Texas is. If it is truly competitive, then likely there will be companies that will market to this group with lower prices in order to gain more subscribers. If the market is not truly competitive, then perhaps regulation is in order. Only time will tell.

Question:

How many different suppliers are there in the market? Do they all belong to a common advocacy group?

 

[TheGameIs21]

Originally posted by: Ldir

Originally posted by: bozack

Originally posted by: Genesys

would you have them charge less for people with poor credit track records?

The libs would love that...or at least the libs here like Dave and Co...seems like Ldir is there as well...if the customer has a history of paying utilities late then I can see how the companies want to protect themselves, give people incentives to pay ontime.

Do you ever read the stories? The customer does not have a history of paying utilities late. It is class discrimination based on credit scores. I bet they can show a correlation between race and late payments too. Will you excuse them if they raise rates based on race?

This is NOT class discrimination! Poor does not equate to bad credit scores... Just because you are poor doesn't force you to over spend. See the link below (one of MANY) on non traditional credit reports that the credit reports can use...

Non Traditional

 

[Gravity]

That's pretty discriminatory. Talk about digging a hole those already in holes!!

 

[Genesys]

Originally posted by: Ldir

Originally posted by: bozack

Originally posted by: Genesys

would you have them charge less for people with poor credit track records?

The libs would love that...or at least the libs here like Dave and Co...seems like Ldir is there as well...if the customer has a history of paying utilities late then I can see how the companies want to protect themselves, give people incentives to pay ontime.

Do you ever read the stories? The customer does not have a history of paying utilities late. It is class discrimination based on credit scores. I bet they can show a correlation between race and late payments too. Will you excuse them if they raise rates based on race?

oh brother :roll: no, i wont excuse them if they charge more based on race then on ability to pay. but if a black, hispanic, or white man doesnt pay the bills on time and they feel the need to encourage him to pay on time, i do support those measures. and, if they want to do demographics of the whole pie and then divide those numbers into race, or age, or sex, or whatever else, then i support that too. and if the numbers show that black people or white people or ispanic people are poor at paying their bills on time, then those are the facts and its not discrimination based on race.

 

[ciba]

Can someone explain to me how charging people that are more likely not to pay for a service discriminatory?

As a comparison, do you believe that people with poor credit should borrow at the same rates you do with good credit?

How do you think this is different, considering the utility is extending credit to the individuals? They are, of course, providing service prior to receiving payment.

 

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: ciba
Can someone explain to me how charging people that are more likely not to pay for a service discriminatory?

As a comparison, do you believe that people with poor credit should borrow at the same rates you do with good credit?

How do you think this is different, considering the utility is extending credit to the individuals? They are, of course, providing service prior to receiving payment.

To start with, it is not a "Service", it is a Tangible Product.

Secondly, it is discriminatory. It is nowhere near a Loan or Line of Credit. Like my McD's example above, it is determining Price not according to Market Principles, but according to "Risk". How much "Risk" is there? One might lose $100(est) on occassion, but that's the Cost of doing business.

The better solution here is to ask for a Reimbersable(sp) Security Deposit(with a time limit, stay faithful in your Payments, receive back your SD) for new customers with Bad Credit, that way if they Pay as required they are not Punished for their Credit Rating. If they don't Pay, you Cut off their Electricity, take what they owe from the SD giving them back the Difference and go on your way. The advantage with this system is that it focuses on the Individual and doesn't punish them for the errors of others in their "group".

 

[Genesys]

Originally posted by: sandorski
The advantage with this system is that it focuses on the Individual and doesn't punish them for the errors of others in their "group".

every person that are in the bad credit group is in that group for a reason you know. it doesnt matter if a person with bad credit has the intention to start paying faithfully, what matters is their track record.

 

[gutharius]

I have lived in Texas for 4 years now. The last 2 under deregulation, and during those last 2 years I have seen my electric rate shoot up a SKY ROCKETING 400%. I know it is pennies per kilowatt hour but it adds up. In my last apartment I lived in for three years and during the last year I saw my electric rate double and then some, in one friggin year for crying out loud! As far as deregulation causing competition... a .002-.01 cent difference is not competition especially since if you go with a TXU competitor they charge a $5 fee for using their service! As far as I am concerned Texas will be the next California power crisis. Just you wait!

 

[KenSr]

If a customer has bad credit make them pay a deposit. That would be fair, charging them a higher rate is not. That is discrimination, and should be illegal.

 

[rbV5]

One more way to put the screws to the poor. The reasons for having poor credit can be varied from simply being a deadbeat, to tragic circumstances. Utilities themselves are protected from non-payment through their rate structure already. The bottom line is that a utility charging you more because you have poor credit, even if you have always paid "them" in a timely fashion is just wrong IMO. They should only be able to consider your payment history with them, or at the signing of the contract through a good faith, refundable deposit from a new customer.

 

[Triumph]

Originally posted by: ciba
Can someone explain to me how charging people that are more likely not to pay for a service discriminatory?

As a comparison, do you believe that people with poor credit should borrow at the same rates you do with good credit?

How do you think this is different, considering the utility is extending credit to the individuals? They are, of course, providing service prior to receiving payment.

You get bad credit not just by having debt, but by not paying down that debt in a timely manner and by not paying your utility bills, among a number of other factors. (having debt isn't necessarily a bad thing - taking a loan for example and showing that you can pay it off responsibly helps your credit score) The people in this thread are STEREOTYPING poor people by saying that poor people tend to have bad credit, and thus basing a utility fee on credit is, by association, basing it on poverty level.

You can see that there are two things wrong with this. One is that they aren't grouping people together by some uncontrollable differentiation like race or gender. That would be discriminatory. Instead, the utility company is charging you based on YOUR own individual history of paying bills. Which obviously isn't discriminatory at all (unless you consider "people who don't pay bills" to be a class of people deserving equal rights).

The other thing wrong with the argument against this, is that they're the ones doing the stereotyping. It always seems to happen that way - it's ok to stereotype a group as long as it fits your leftist agenda. Poor people tend to have bad credit... that's a stereotype! "But I thought the left hated stereotypes!" Oh they do, except when it suits them.

Although I will say that I think a better way to do this would be to charge more based on prior history of paying utility bills. Sometimes life throws you a curve ball (like medical bills as mentioned above) and you can't help but get a lower credit score, but that doesn't mean you aren't still paying your usual bills on time.

 

[Triumph]

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: ciba
Can someone explain to me how charging people that are more likely not to pay for a service discriminatory?

As a comparison, do you believe that people with poor credit should borrow at the same rates you do with good credit?

How do you think this is different, considering the utility is extending credit to the individuals? They are, of course, providing service prior to receiving payment.

To start with, it is not a "Service", it is a Tangible Product.

who cares.

Secondly, it is discriminatory. It is nowhere near a Loan or Line of Credit. Like my McD's example above, it is determining Price not according to Market Principles, but according to "Risk". How much "Risk" is there? One might lose $100(est) on occassion, but that's the Cost of doing business.

No it's not a loan on the scale of a car loan or a mortgage, but it sure as heck isn't like buying a damn cheeseburger. That's a horrible analogy. For one, they aren't giving you the cheeseburger until you give them your money. Ok, so how about a real restaurant, where you pay after you get your food: Well what if you have a history of walking out on the check? Shouldn't you be charged more? Or should the rest of us pay more for our meal to cover the money lost when you walked out on the check? Wait a minute... isn't that punishing EVERYONE for the crimes of ONE person? How is that fair?

The better solution here is to ask for a Reimbersable(sp) Security Deposit(with a time limit, stay faithful in your Payments, receive back your SD) for new customers with Bad Credit, that way if they Pay as required they are not Punished for their Credit Rating. If they don't Pay, you Cut off their Electricity, take what they owe from the SD giving them back the Difference and go on your way. The advantage with this system is that it focuses on the Individual and doesn't punish them for the errors of others in their "group".

That's not a bad idea, but how are you being punished by YOUR OWN credit score?!?! There's no group associated with it.

 

[Red Dawn]

Some people have bad credit because they choose to pay their Utility bills over other bills. In a tight monetary spot most will always pay rent and power bills over credit card payments. I'm not excusing them for getting in this position but I agree with others that if their rates are determioned on how they pay their bills then their history of paying their utility bills should be the one and only determining factor.

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: bozack

Originally posted by: Genesys

would you have them charge less for people with poor credit track records?

The libs would love that...or at least the libs here like Dave and Co...seems like Ldir is there as well...if the customer has a history of paying utilities late then I can see how the companies want to protect themselves, give people incentives to pay ontime.

Gotta love threads like this that shows the true teeth of the Rich Neocon Elitists in here.

The most discriminatory and hypocritical people on the planet.

No such thing as all people being equal with them. So sad :thumbsdown:

 

[Triumph]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: bozack

Originally posted by: Genesys

would you have them charge less for people with poor credit track records?

The libs would love that...or at least the libs here like Dave and Co...seems like Ldir is there as well...if the customer has a history of paying utilities late then I can see how the companies want to protect themselves, give people incentives to pay ontime.

Gotta love threads like this that shows the true teeth of the Rich Neocon Elitists in here.

The most discriminatory and hypocritical people on the planet.

No such thing as all people being equal with them. So sad :thumbsdown:

How about a real retort?

 

[Orsorum]

Are there statistics available on the positive correlation between income and credit rating?