Just a Theory and Question

[GML3G0]

1. I'm just curious. None of the X800 cards come with PS3 or DirectX 9.0c support. Could it be just disabled on the cards because the driver had issues with it, and they are waiting for some good programmers or whatever to fix it in their drivers and possibly enable it in a future driver release. ATi has kept their mouth shut and haven't mentioned much so could this be possible. I don't think that they would be so stupid as to respond to the 6800 GT like this. I know their next core architecture which will be completely new will incorporate DirectX 9.0c.

2. The 9800 Pro and its nVidia equivalent is just starting to become the average card for the average PC user. Everyday people still play games once in a while, and the 9800 Pro is able to handle them easily. We're talking about a $220 card here. When UT 2006 finally comes out, that is when we are going to see the X800 Pro's and X800 XT's at the affordable price for the casual gamer. That will be the equivalent of the 9800 Pro when UT 2006 comes out. Are you telling me that that card won't be able to handle that. Does Epic Games honestly think that regular (not computer enthusiasts) people are going to want to fork over $400 for a new video card able to handle their game. I'm sure that 9.0c will not be the minimum spec for the game. They have to be able to roll back to a previous version, otherwise, nobody will be buying their game. The new ATi lineup which will have 9.0c won't be coming out for a few months now (close to around the time UT2k6 comes out).

I mean, I just bought my X800 XT for $399 ($433 with tax), and I am sort of having regrets.

That's just my $0.02.

 

[nitromullet]

Why regrets? Is there any game that you own that you can't play with all the eye candy? I didn't think so... Buy video cards for what you own, and not for what is coming out in the future. There is no telling what the requirements will be for any future games nor when the game will actually come out. You have a great card, enjoy it

 

[fsstrike]

Originally posted by: GML3G0
1. I'm just curious. None of the X800 cards come with PS3 or DirectX 9.0c support. Could it be just disabled on the cards because the driver had issues with it, and they are waiting for some good programmers or whatever to fix it in their drivers and possibly enable it in a future driver release. ATi has kept their mouth shut and haven't mentioned much so could this be possible. I don't think that they would be so stupid as to respond to the 6800 GT like this. I know their next core architecture which will be completely new will incorporate DirectX 9.0c.

2. The 9800 Pro and its nVidia equivalent is just starting to become the average card for the average PC user. Everyday people still play games once in a while, and the 9800 Pro is able to handle them easily. We're talking about a $220 card here. When UT 2006 finally comes out, that is when we are going to see the X800 Pro's and X800 XT's at the affordable price for the casual gamer. That will be the equivalent of the 9800 Pro when UT 2006 comes out. Are you telling me that that card won't be able to handle that. Does Epic Games honestly think that regular (not computer enthusiasts) people are going to want to fork over $400 for a new video card able to handle their game. I'm sure that 9.0c will not be the minimum spec for the game. They have to be able to roll back to a previous version, otherwise, nobody will be buying their game. The new ATi lineup which will have 9.0c won't be coming out for a few months now (close to around the time UT2k6 comes out).

I mean, I just bought my X800 XT for $399 ($433 with tax), and I am sort of having regrets.

That's just my $0.02.

Do NOT have any regrets, the x800xt is a GREAT card. There are NO sm3 games yet, so dont worry about it. And eventually, when all games "eventually" support sm3 (no one even knows forsure yet), a new line of video cards will be out to replace the x800/6800 lines.

 

[GML3G0]

Originally posted by: fsstrike
Do NOT have any regrets, the x800xt is a GREAT card. There are NO sm3 games yet, so dont worry about it. And eventually, when all games "eventually" support sm3 (no one even knows forsure yet), a new line of video cards will be out to replace the x800/6800 lines.

Basically, I will have to fork over $400 for a new video card in a year and a half. Then on top of that, a new motherboard that will support the PCIe video cards, since I doubt the new cards will support AGP, and a new proceesor to support this. On top of adding 1GB RAM. So that's around $1000 upgrade in 1 1/2 years. :/

Oh, and what about my driver thoery and question? The one about PS 3.0 and DirectX 9.0c.

 

[Matthias99]

1. I'm just curious. None of the X800 cards come with PS3 or DirectX 9.0c support. Could it be just disabled on the cards because the driver had issues with it, and they are waiting for some good programmers or whatever to fix it in their drivers and possibly enable it in a future driver release. ATi has kept their mouth shut and haven't mentioned much so could this be possible. I don't think that they would be so stupid as to respond to the 6800 GT like this. I know their next core architecture which will be completely new will incorporate DirectX 9.0c.

I find it very unlikely that ATI could have 'unenabled' or 'broken' PS3.0/VS3.0 support (at least hardware support) on the R420. The main capabilities they seem to be missing are:

1) for PS3.0/VS3.0, you need to support dynamic branching to any instruction in a pixel or vertex shader. As far as anyone can tell, this capability is not present at a hardware level in the R420, or at least is not completely functional.

2) for VS3.0, you need to support direct access to the card's texture memory from inside a vertex shader program. Again, this feature seems to not be present at a hardware level in the R420 core.

3) There may also be (presumably hardware-related) restrictions on maximum shader size on the R420 that would make it incompatible with the PS3.0/VS3.0 specs (there's some number X of instructions you have to be able to support to be SM3.0-compliant), but I would have to check on this.

You might be able to work around number 3 in the driver, but 1 and 2 really have to be present at a hardware level.

 

[otispunkmeyer]

and seen as no one has answered his question ( idont think....slap me if im wrong) Ati X800 is based off the R300 core, so no it doesnt support SM3 and never will, the hard ware aint there...but it does support PS2.0b which is probably just as good

EDIT : BEATEN TO THE PUNCH !

 

[GML3G0]

But 2.0b has no future.

 

[Pete]

How so? There are still plenty more PS2 cards out there than PS3, therefore PS2 has a future. The GF4MX didn't last as long as it did because it had more features than the comparable Radeons, but because it just had greater numbers that a dev couldn't ignore excluding.

UE3 will run on SM2 cards as well as SM3 cards, don't worry. As to whether it'll run well, or as well as SM3 cards, we'll have to wait and see. But devs won't want to drop more than one half of the DX9 market by releasing SM3-only games, or with a majority of effects being SM3-only. Wouldn't be prudent at this juncture.

 

[GML3G0]

If I read that link you gave me correctly, Pete, (thx btw - it raised my hopes that my card will last longer than 1 1/2 years), the UE3 engine will look just as good on the X800 XT as it will on the SM3 enabled cards, but to reach that quality, they will be taxed by 20% performance. I skimmed through that quickly and didn't really read it that thoroughly and did no research, so please correct me if I'm wrong.

Oh, and one more thing, is the game based on DirectX or OpenGL. Someone on another forum said OpenGL since it was done in collaberation with nVidia. But I think it's DirectX, isn't it? And what's a dev? lol. I hate abbreviations.

 

[SilentRunning]

I think there was an interview somewhere with an ATI representative where they said that their opinion was that adding the support was not practical until the next die shrink.

Higher transistor count would lead to a larger die size, reducing the usable yield and cutting into profits. I least that is how I remember they stated their stance on the issue. Same reason was given for no 32 bit support at this time.

 

[nitromullet]

Basically, I will have to fork over $400 for a new video card in a year and a half. Then on top of that, a new motherboard that will support the PCIe video cards, since I doubt the new cards will support AGP, and a new proceesor to support this. On top of adding 1GB RAM. So that's around $1000 upgrade in 1 1/2 years. :/

I've heard it said that you should expect to spend $1k a year to have a decent computer than can run most off the current software. That can either be $1k in upgrades per year or $3k every three years for a new system.

dev=developer

 

[m4ch0dude]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but as I recall, the original DX9 specs only required 24bit color, so I would think that's the reason why ATI chose to implement it that way. As for Unreal3, I've read that it will utilize 64bit color, which no current gfx card can support, but that doesn't mean that the minimum specs would require 64bit color, and similarly, it may not require SM3. Thats my $0.02

 

[imported_hopeless]

I'd like to know where you got an XT for $399 & what brand it is. So far that is around the price I've been seeing the pro selling for.

 

[im2good4u]

i got my asus AX800XT-PE for about 470$ from a friend

 

[Keysplayr]

Originally posted by: SilentRunning
I think there was an interview somewhere with an ATI representative where they said that their opinion was that adding the support was not practical until the next die shrink.

Higher transistor count would lead to a larger die size, reducing the usable yield and cutting into profits. I least that is how I remember they stated their stance on the issue. Same reason was given for no 32 bit support at this time.

Well, the die shrink has come and gone and they are still the same.
X700 series = .11u
X800XL = .11u

So maybe they meant the "next next" die shrink.

 

[GML3G0]

$399 for a VisionTek Xtasy X800 XT at Micro Center. Easily passes Platinum Edition speeds.
Deal ends the 30th.