Just a few Questions on Overclocking. PLEASE HELP!

[UKspace]

I have never overclocked before, and I thought I never would, but then I read a guide to overclocking at Athlonoc.com and its got me interested.

It explain about Multipler and FSB overclocking, but I don't understand what it meant by talking about Core Voltage.

What is this and can it be changed? Is it dangerous?

I also read on a thread that:



<< Upping the core voltage raises temperature the most but increases stability. >>



What does this mean and how will does it work? Can't I overload the CPU with thisand blow it up!?

I have also seen many people talking about using 100FSB Athlon's in DDR MoBo's and KT133A at 133FSB. How can this be done and by increasing the FSB does that mean that the CPU has to be 'clocked' lower, say a 1.2Ghz Athlon has to run at 1Ghz to be able to run at 133FSB? Won't this slow the system down?

What does underclocking mean and why would you do it?

And once a system had been overclocked, how would you asess it as 'stable'?

Can you get utilities that torture the CPU and see if it has been overclocked? If it detects that it then can it give a rating to how stable the system is? Does anything similar exist?

And one last point, many people talk about 1.2Ghz Thunderbirds comming unlocked from AMD, but how do you know that the Processor is unlocked when you recieve it?

Which heatsink would be recommended to overclock a 1.2Ghz Athlon?
I was originally going to get a TaiSol CGK742, before I decided to Overclock. Should I choose another one, or is the TaiSol fine? I want something QUIET(ish)!

THANKS,

As you can tell this is my first adventure in the exciting world of Overclocking.

 

[stultus]

Regarding the core voltage:
Basically, what you're doing is forcing more power through the chip. It could damage the chip if you run it too hot, probably by shortening its lifetime (from 10 years to 2 years or something like that... I've never had an OC'd chip go bad). By giving it more power, it makes it more stable (hmm.. never thought about why. anyone?). But when there's more energy coursing through it, it generates more heat. Too much heat and the chip locks up and your sstem crashes or reboots. At that point you know you need to decrease the voltage.

Regarding the 133MHz FSB:
If you have a 1 GHz Athlon chip, you are running it at 100 MHz FSB (10x100). Alternatively, you could reclock the same chip to run at 7.5x133 = 1 GHz. Same speed, different FSB. The higher the FSB, the better system performance. This is &quot;underclocking&quot; the multiplier, but you can run the FSB even higher if you want to (e.g., 7.5*150 = 1.125 Ghz IF your ram and chip support it).

Yes, there are torture-test utilities. Basically, you run them and if your system doesn't crash then it's considered stable.

That;s all I can answer right now. I'm sure others will help you out.

 

[Nelmster]

Dang! Alright, let's get on this one.

Core Voltage is raised using the BIOS of certain mobos, and yes, it helps make the processor more stable. I do not consider myself experienced enough to give a recommendation, but it appears that most people choose to stop increasing at 1.85V.

A 1.2 GHz T-bird has a multiplier of 12 and a FSB setting of 100 (12 * 100 = 1200). To reach 1.2 GHz on the KT133A mobos, you need to reduce the multiplier to 9 (9 * 133 = 1197). If you choose to raise the FSB or multiplier from that point, you have those both options.

Yes, there are torture utilities. Hopefully, someone will come along and explain exactly what they do. Many people run Q3 loops, along with ??? I'm pretty sure that most people torture their system for 24 hours, and if the computer is still running - it's stable.

The processor is unlocked if the L1 bridges are not cut. If you don't know what L1 bridges are, type in &quot;L1 bridges&quot; at Google, and you'll find plenty of links that will have pics.

I'll leave the fan question for someone else - no experience or research on that one!

Good questions!

 

[UKspace]

Thankyou Nelmster and stultus.

I understand what you mean by altering the core voltage and about the FSB and Multipler. I am extremely grateful to you for taking the time and trouble to respond.

Just wondering about the following too:

If I buy a 1.2Ghz Athlon and its L1 bridges have already been 'closed' does that mean its unlocked?

If I can use a 100FSB 1.2Ghz at 133FSB, what would be the point of buying an offical 133FSB rated CPU? Won't AMD just do the same and underclock? (gee, I like all this technical talk! Makes it look like I know what I'm doing)!

By using FSB Overclocking, won't my PCI Bus, AGP Bus and componets get damaged?

How high will a 1.2Ghz Athlon go?

Thanks

 

[Quad]

ok, i'll ATTEMPT to address the heatsink/fan (hsf) question. although, i'm not too experienced and you may want a second opinion. However, from what i've heard, read, and seen the following are pretty good hsf's for oc'ing: Global Win fop38, fop 32-1. Alpha pep6035. kanie hedgehog (i think this is good, anyone?), and the chrome orb from thermaltake...although i'm not a big fan of orbs. Thermaltake released that new volcano heatsink...that seems to be good. also, tomshardware.com did a hsf roundup and while back, and they declared that the hsf's from swiftech were good. the alpha's were in second. Hardocp.com did a roundup too, and the GW fop38 was on top.

basically, my opinion is as follows. if u want a wicked fan that'll satisfy all your cooling needs, then get the Global Win fop38 (don't forget to use thermal compound/paste). This baby is one of those ultimate cooling machines. however, the fop38 is really loud at 45 decibels. so if u can't handle the noise, then do what i'm gonna do: get the fop32-1. it's only like 36 dB and is a pretty good cooler when overclocking.

hope that helps

 

[robg1701]

FSB speeds of 100/200 for the KT133 and 133/266 for the KT133A are officialy certified speeds, so no, overclocking a 100 FSB Athlon to a 133 FSB and lowering the multiplier (if needed) wont make your PCI and AGP buses run out of spec.

 

[LordSandMan]

Just to add to what robg1701 said, If you are running 100 or 133 fsb and you go beyond 100 or 133 you will be overclocking the AGP and PCI bus. Most components can handle at least a little bot of overclocking. Some ethernet cards and SCSI cards don't like to be overclocked too far. If they quit working, then just back off the FSB a little. This hasn't been an issue lately with the AMD's because the AMD 100Mhz FSB processors haven't been FSB overclocker friendly, but it sounds like that is starting to change with the AMD 133Mhz processors.

As for the HSF's I've heard that the Hedgehog does an excellent job, but some people were concerned about an all copper HSF putting too much weight on the Mobo.

 

[Nelmster]

If the L1 bridges are closed, that bad boy is unlocked...open for business...ready to go!

Based ONLY on what I've read, there is no core improvements for the 133MHz FSB T-birds coming out. (There will be eventually, of course.) However, for the time being, take that piece of information and do what you want to with it...

I have seen SEVERAL people on this forum attaining 1.35+ with their 1.2GHz. I have seen a few claiming 1.4+ GHz.

 

[UKspace]

Wow! 1.4Ghz!

Thanks for all the help.

Now which HSF will fit the MSI K7T Turbo?

Is a Super ORB any good? It has two fans but how loud is it? It can go up to 1.5Ghz.

Once overclocked (I don't plan on Overclocking too much) will the CPU last about 3-5 years?

And lastly what utilities can I use to check the stability of the system. Any names?

 

[UKspace]

^bump

 

[stultus]

To figure what fan you want, you might just see what everybody else is using on their MSI K7T Turbo boards. That way you're sure that the HSF will fit on the board.


You might check these general links for general fan info:

Anand's Socket A Cooling Review
Hear some fans

You said

<< Is a Super ORB any good? It has two fans but how loud is it? It can go up to 1.5Ghz. >>



I don't know how loud it is - you might check out some of the links above. AFAIK, NOTHING is louder than the FOP38. I just bought an Alpha 6035 (but I'm still waiting on my chip to arrive
); my research showed it to be the best quiet HSF (Sanyo fan).

Your statement &quot;It can go up to 1.5GHz&quot; is a little wrong. Maybe you saw somebody using that who said they hit 1.5, but that doesn't mean you're guaranteed to get the same. It depends on the chip mostly, and maybe the ram (I don't know what he was running at). Just because somebody with a poodle hit 1.5 doesn't mean you need to get a poodle to run the same. Just get a nice high quality HSF (and the fact that you're looking for ones by brand name is a good indication you won't get a bad one) and you should be good to go. I'm surprised you're not looking for thermal compound (Arctic Silver et al) as well.

About how long it'll last overclocked - I don't know and nobody can tell you for sure. It's generally assumed that, IF it ever fails, it'll be years later, at which point you won't be using the computer (you'll have upgraded), or you can pick up a replacement chip for a fraction of the cost you're paying now.

I don't know why you wouldn't overclock &quot;much.&quot; If you're planning on OC'ing, just see how fast you can run it stable, and leave it alone. The fact that it's stable means you don't need to mess with it (OC, un-OC) - it's STABLE.

I'm not much on utilities. Try running SETI@home, Prime95, etc. But I would just fire up my favorite taxing 3D game and see if I can play it a few hours without crashing.

 

[UKspace]

Good Advice stultus.

What do you mean by Arctic Silver? I have heard about it, but why would I need to use it when I can just use the peel off pads on most heatsinks?

When I talked about the Super ORB, I didn't mean that I expected to overclock the CPU up to 1.5Ghz, but that I read in a review that it supported CPU's up to 1.5Ghz.

I am looking around the net at the moment to see if I can find any sutiable Utilities.

PS Comming from a P166 Mhz PC I can't afford to have a favourite taxing 3D game because my pathetic PC can't handle it, but I will invest in a copy of Quake III. Do I have to buy the full version Quake of will the Demo do?

Thankyou

 

[UKspace]

Here is some of the relavant utilites I have found.

What do you think of them? Anybody used them?


BurnInTest


<< BurnInTest can even be used by overclockers to verify system stability at high clock speeds. >>




CPU Stability Test


<< CPU Stability Test allows you to torture test your computer's Central Processing Unit (CPU) and find out if it is overclocked. >>



Hot CPU Tester


<< Hot CPU Tester allows you to test the stability of your system. >>



Rain


<< Rain sends instructions to your CPU to make it run at a much cooler temperature. >>




I would appreciate it if people could give me their opinion on any of these programs.

Thankyou

 

[UKspace]

^bump

 

[UKspace]

Someone?

 

[UKspace]

anyone?

 

[stultus]

By Arctic Silver I am talking about thermal compound to use between your CPU and the heat sink. There are several ways to get the heat transfered from the CPU to the heat sink. One is a thermal pad. In general, these suck. They don't transfer heat very efficiently. A much better option is to use thermal compound. These come in silicon-based and metal-based flavors. An old standby is Radio Shack thermal compound, which until just a few days ago I thought was acceptable. (If you are in the UK, as I'm guessing by both the times you post and your nickname, you wouldn't have Radio Shack.) The other (presumably betteR) option is a metal baed one. Either you buy into marketing hype and buy Arctic Silver (as I did) or you save yourself a few quid and get something more generic. But if you're looking in to going all out to overclock, why not get the best?

Oh, about &quot;supporting&quot; 1.5 G CPUs... well, they don't know what size/shape any chip faster than that will be, so they can't say for sure. There isn't even a 1.5 G chip out yet.

I am sure you are planning on buying some 3D game for your new system. If you're not playing 3D games, why purpose do you have in overclocking? (Unless it's for CAD or A/V editing.) Just use whatever game you get.

I've never heard of any of the first three programs you found. Doesn't mean that they're not good or won't work. Rain is used to cool your system when you overclock by sending HALT commands to your proc when it's not doing anything. Win2K does the same thing by default (i.e., you don't need to run the program - Win2k issues the halt commands itself). What OS are you going to be using?

 

[UKspace]

I will be using Windows 2000, with a dual boot of Windows 98SE.

After looking around some of the links suggested, I have decided on two HSF. I really like the Taisol CGK742, which seems to be perfect and has got lots of good reviews. The GlobalWin 32-1 is also good as Quad suggested. Which one?

I want to use them in either an MSI K7T Turbo-R or the Asus A7V133.
I have heard too many bad things about Abit.

 

[SiliconVandal]

I got my 1.2.GHz T-bird running at 1560MHz with a Chrome Orb and 133MHz FSB. Nice and fast, rock stable too, but I would recommened getting the Kanie Hedgehog (Chrome Orb is great though, and cheap!!)

 

[SiliconVandal]

Oh yah, don't listen to stultus, Artic Silver compound is not &quot;marketing hype&quot;, it is incredibly effective and really helped me attain this speed.

SV

 

[UKspace]

1560Mhz!!!!! :Q

What kind of temperatures are you at ?



<< I got my 1.2.GHz T-bird running at 1560MHz with a Chrome Orb and 133MHz FSB. Nice and fast, rock stable too >>



I will use Artic Silver, I have read the installation instructions and it seems resonably straight forward. Have you used the 11.5x133 setting to get you speed, or it is even higher.

 

[stultus]

SiliconVandal: Maybe I didn't make it clear, but I bought Arctic Silver for myself I read about it for a while and decided it'd be a shame to be held back by Radio Shack thermal compound if Arctic Silver could boost my speed. I'm still waiting for my chip to arrive in the mail, so I haven't had a chance to test it out yet. I was just presenting the other side of the arguement that I heard that it IS hype, and that other stuff will work just as well. I didn't think so, so I bought Arctic Silver.

 

[Quad]

k ukspace, sounds like u got a pretty good setup

as for testing stability, one of the most popular ways is to do all of the following at one:
1) prime95 (torture test)
2) rc5 client (or a seti client is good too)
3) play quake3 for and hour
4) winamp -- listen to music while playing q3
5) have icq or aim going

the icq may be too much, but it may not be. just use what you've got. also, i've heard of some program called burnk6.exe that heats up yur cpu real good. but i've never used it so i don't reccomend it. ask someone who has.

good luck

oh, btw. i have a p166 too! they rock. check out Quad Damage in my sig

 

[UKspace]

Great suggestions Quad.

I will definatly use the programs you have suggested.

Now I just need to get the bits together to build my system.

Having read other threads and from research, I have decided on the following MAIN componets.

Thunderbird 1.2Ghz (Factory unlocked I hope)
512Mb Crucial CAS 2 Memory
64Mb ATI Radeon VIVO Graphics Card OEM
2 x IBM Deskstar 46.1Gb 75GXP Drives in RAID 0.
Soundblaster live Value
Diamond Modem

And other stuff.

Just wondering:

Are the componets I have chosen known to be able to withstand a bit of FSB overclocking?

You may have noticed that the Motherboad is not listed, that is because I can't decide betwen the Msi K7T Turbo-R or the Asus A7V133? The asus is already available, so should I just get that or wait for the Msi?

And what about cooling?

I have decided on the following:

Enermax 330W PSU
Global Win 802 Case REVIEW
Copper Shim (first time bulder, don't want to crush core!)
TaiSol CGK742 HSF
2 Ultra Thin HD Coolers

I'm just not sure how many fans I will need? I know that I will need some 80 mm fans. But how many and where should I fit them?

Thankyou

 

[stultus]

UKSpace - make your profile public so people can email you directly. It seems this thread is no longer about overclocking but discussing components for your new box. You might start a new thread if you don't want people to PM or email you directly.