Judges Overturn Racially Motivated Voter Suppression Laws in WI, TX, & MI

[glenn1]

So you two are just going to keep on keepin' on advocating changes that have been repeatedly shown to negatively affect legitimate citizens in order to fight a scenario that does not happen enough to even be measurable, effectively burning down the house to get rid of a wasp nest your neighbor told you is there but the licensed exterminator could find no evidence showing it exists.

Yeah, advocating that the state pay for IDs for citizens is a huge adverse impact to them.

 

[Subyman]

Yeah, advocating that the state pay for IDs for citizens is a huge adverse impact to them.

You'd burden the state with a program that would cost millions of tax dollars to alleviate a problem that the state can't even prove is an issue in court? You are sounding like a liberal

 

[glenn1]

You'd burden the state with a program that would cost millions of tax dollars to alleviate a problem that the state can't even prove is an issue in court? You are sounding like a liberal

Voter fraud isn't really even the core issue it addresses as photo ID is required for many other things nowadays including a lot of government business; e.g. you need a photo ID to get married some places like Philadelphia.

I'm not reflexively opposed to government helping people, even a small group of persons although things that benefit all equally are to be preferred. What I normally object to is government assistance that enables bad behavior and even encourages it (see bank and auto bailouts for a prime example). No one is going to get a huge benefit out of having a $20 photo ID comped for them by the taxpayers, and no one is going to purposely lose all their personal records to save that $20.

 

[TheGardener]

Agreed. Personally I think the state should provide ID for free to all citizens; after all, the argument is that it's in the state's best interest to reduce fraud of all kinds. Yes, there are costs involved, but ultimately they're a drop in the bucket compared to all the other things that we spend money on at a federal/state level.

The point of this judicial ruling is to say that citizenship has no value. One should get to vote, even if you are not legally in the USA. It is all a ruse. I can't think of too many things you can do without an ID or your ID being vetted. So why not have an ID before voting?

 

[Jhhnn]

I'm all for anything we can do to reduce fraud there to, and any other vector for that matter. We can walk and chew gum at the same time and likewise we can reduce vote and election fraud on multiple fronts simultaneously as well.

And I'm not advocating the Voter ID thing because I think it's going to swing an election and the controls don't need to be as robust as Fort Knox. Free IDs for the poor/indigent combined with a system of affadavits and physical control (like the blue ink on finger) would still be vastly more secure while presenting no appreciable burden for pretty much anyone.

The first thing you need to do to convince rational people that fraud needs to be controlled is to show that it actually exists to an appreciable degree. That hasn't been done, nor likely will it ever be.

Given that, motives of strident advocates are entirely suspect.

I want everybody who is eligible to register & to vote regardless of their ideology. That transcends partisanship, or it should, anyway. I also believe that there's no reason to think the idea isn't in the interests of democracy or that voter ID requirements don't inhibit it.

In our system of free elections, greater participation ensures greater legitimacy for govt in general. We need that.

 

[Moonbeam]

Elections are all about how many zombies a political party can brainwash to positively identify as a member of their special virtuous team and vote against the monsters that threaten the nation who belong to the other team. This requires the use of sophisticated knowledge of how to brainwash people and the money and program to carry out the brainwashing. The constitutional right to vote is no longer necessary or of value because the people who vote do so totally without free will. The voting population are sleepwalking programmed voting machines. Democracy can function only when people are awake and deeply skilled at recognizing and rooting out programming.

There is little more amusing than slaves struggling to protect the will of their masters.

One of the manifestations of self hate is the need to belong to something. Imagine how hard it would be to really feel worthless and alone. Who will sail into the monsters that lie at the edge of the known world?

 

[Subyman]

Voter fraud isn't really even the core issue it addresses as photo ID is required for many other things nowadays including a lot of government business; e.g. you need a photo ID to get married some places like Philadelphia.

I'm not reflexively opposed to government helping people, even a small group of persons although things that benefit all equally are to be preferred. What I normally object to is government assistance that enables bad behavior and even encourages it (see bank and auto bailouts for a prime example). No one is going to get a huge benefit out of having a $20 photo ID comped for them by the taxpayers, and no one is going to purposely lose all their personal records to save that $20.

I'm not quite understanding how barring someone's presidential vote is required to "help" citizens get free ID cards. You can do that without putting up barriers at the ballot.

If voter fraud isn't the issue, then the entire thing falls apart.

 

[Jhhnn]

The point of this judicial ruling is to say that citizenship has no value. One should get to vote, even if you are not legally in the USA. It is all a ruse. I can't think of too many things you can do without an ID or your ID being vetted. So why not have an ID before voting?

That's conspiracy theory bullshit.

 

[Subyman]

The point of this judicial ruling is to say that citizenship has no value. One should get to vote, even if you are not legally in the USA. It is all a ruse. I can't think of too many things you can do without an ID or your ID being vetted. So why not have an ID before voting?

In my state you need to show your social security number to register to vote.

 

[umbrella39]

You should be happy that this is limiting the government's power to restrict your rights. What's that? You don't really care about limiting the government's power? Maybe you're an authoritarian and don't even know it. Maybe every time you act like liberals are the ones trying to restrict your rights you are really just projecting your own faults onto liberals.

Nope, he is just an obvious wave the constitution in his right hand then wipe his ass with it when it's in his left...

 

[Jhhnn]

Voter fraud isn't really even the core issue it addresses as photo ID is required for many other things nowadays including a lot of government business; e.g. you need a photo ID to get married some places like Philadelphia.

I'm not reflexively opposed to government helping people, even a small group of persons although things that benefit all equally are to be preferred. What I normally object to is government assistance that enables bad behavior and even encourages it (see bank and auto bailouts for a prime example). No one is going to get a huge benefit out of having a $20 photo ID comped for them by the taxpayers, and no one is going to purposely lose all their personal records to save that $20.

Platitudinous bullshit in avoidance of the central issue. You fail to establish cause to offer voters any greater impediments than they already have.

Give me a reason, not an excuse.

 

[brycejones]

The point of this judicial ruling is to say that citizenship has no value. One should get to vote, even if you are not legally in the USA. It is all a ruse. I can't think of too many things you can do without an ID or your ID being vetted. So why not have an ID before voting?

No that isn't the point.

 

[dank69]

Voter fraud isn't really even the core issue it addresses...

You don't say?

as photo ID is required for many other things nowadays including a lot of government business; e.g. you need a photo ID to get married some places like Philadelphia.

I'm not reflexively opposed to government helping people, even a small group of persons although things that benefit all equally are to be preferred. What I normally object to is government assistance that enables bad behavior and even encourages it (see bank and auto bailouts for a prime example). No one is going to get a huge benefit out of having a $20 photo ID comped for them by the taxpayers, and no one is going to purposely lose all their personal records to save that $20.

Purposely lose? All you have to do is walk in and say "I lost all my personal records." You don't actually have to lose them first.

 

[glenn1]

I'm not quite understanding how barring someone's presidential vote is required to "help" citizens get free ID cards. You can do that without putting up barriers at the ballot.

If voter fraud isn't the issue, then the entire thing falls apart.

So you'd rather turn down government paid for IDs rather than 'risk' that someone might be asked to show it every other year? I'm just baffled why you'd deny someone the advantages conferred by an ID that taxpayers would pay for in order to preserve the dubious "benefit" of not needing to show that free ID while voting.

 

[Moonbeam]

So you'd rather turn down government paid for IDs rather than 'risk' that someone might be asked to show it every other year? I'm just baffled why you'd deny someone the advantages conferred by an ID that taxpayers would pay for in order to preserve the dubious "benefit" of not needing to show that free ID while voting.

I think you make a good point that would be even better if voter fraud were a real issue.

 

[Subyman]

So you'd rather turn down government paid for IDs rather than 'risk' that someone might be asked to show it every other year? I'm just baffled why you'd deny someone the advantages conferred by an ID that taxpayers would pay for in order to preserve the dubious "benefit" of not needing to show that free ID while voting.

No, I'm simply decoupling the two. Free ID cards can be advocated for without requiring them to vote. Both are completely different issues. The only argument for requiring to show an ID card to vote is to combat fraud, which the state hasn't proven is an issue to begin with. You don't have to bar people without ID cards from voting to give them for IDs for free. That is the definition of creating a problem to solve it.

 

[glenn1]

No, I'm simply decoupling the two. Free ID cards can be advocated for without requiring them to vote. Both are completely different issues. The only argument for requiring to show an ID card to vote is to combat fraud, which the state hasn't proven is an issue to begin with. You don't have to bar people without ID cards from voting to give them for IDs for free. That is the definition of creating a problem to solve it.

I'd still support free UD even without Voter ID. However since the one kinda solves the later I don't see why we should purposely not do it. Arguing that we shouldn't solve two problems just because you suspect ulterior motives for solving one of them doesn't make sense.

 

[ivwshane]

I'd still support free UD even without Voter ID. However since the one kinda solves the later I don't see why we should purposely not do it. Arguing that we shouldn't solve two problems just because you suspect ulterior motives for solving one of them doesn't make sense.

It doesn't solve any problem! That's the whole fucking point!

 

[Bird222]

The point of this judicial ruling is to say that citizenship has no value. One should get to vote, even if you are not legally in the USA. It is all a ruse. I can't think of too many things you can do without an ID or your ID being vetted. So why not have an ID before voting?

So are you good with registering to buy a gun?

 

[fskimospy]

Texas voter ID law also struck down.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...1bf340-4cef-11e6-aa14-e0c1087f7583_story.html

This is a good day, they are dropping like flies.

 

[soundforbjt]

Texas voter ID law also struck down.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...1bf340-4cef-11e6-aa14-e0c1087f7583_story.html

This is a good day, they are dropping like flies.

And just in time for the elections.

 

[brycejones]

Texas voter ID law also struck down.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...1bf340-4cef-11e6-aa14-e0c1087f7583_story.html

This is a good day, they are dropping like flies.

Liberal judges trying to pack the electorate with illegals for Hillary. (Because the 5th is such a liberal circuit) /s

 

[Paratus]

Texas voter ID law also struck down.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...1bf340-4cef-11e6-aa14-e0c1087f7583_story.html

This is a good day, they are dropping like flies.

Just saw that! It was knocked down on violations of the voter rights act.


Some of the numbers of affected are alarming.
http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2016/07/20/texas_voter_id_law_ruled_illegal_under_the_voting_rights_act.html

severe: 608,470 registered voters, or 4.5 percent of all registered voters in Texas, lack the necessary ID to vote; Hispanic registered voters are 195 percent more likely than whites to lack ID; and black registered voters are a stunning 305 percent more likely than whites not to hold ID necessary to vote under SB 14.

 

[Moonbeam]

QUOTE]severe: 608,470 registered voters, or 4.5 percent of all registered voters in Texas, lack the necessary ID to vote;

But isn't that offset by the millions of duplicate ballots entered by people casting more than one ballot?

 

[Thebobo]

Its been proven that the voter fraud problem is a myth. The real reason republican state governments have passed all these laws is to discourage voting. Everyone knows this its no different then the new abortion laws.

Cant believe politicians think we are that stupid. Shame on you.