Judge Rules DADT Unconstitutional

[Fear No Evil]

Show me a Republican administration that has been as or more supportive of GLBT rights/issues.

Well Clinton rolled it out.. so I guess the Republicans are about as supportive has Clinton was toward gays by not changing or repealing it. Honestly, I think Obama's record on the gay agenda is quite pathetic.. he hasn't done much of anything for them other than give lip service. The repeal of DADT MIGHT happen by the end of his term. I'm not sure 'But the Republicans are worse' is the best argument to defending Obama's poor record on this.

 

[HumblePie]

Where exactly did I say I was?



The point is that the process has been stood up on it's ear, having it legislated from the bench rather than face those pesky hurdles of actual legislation.

Grrr. do you know the powers of the Judicial system?!?! Bah, I just typed up something about the powers of the president and now I feel I have to type it up for the judicial system because of inane comments like this. Damn, it feels like I'm teaching a bunch of 3rd graders how our government works.

This is NOT legislating from the bench as you put it. Basically a law was enacted by Congress. The judicial system finally got around to reviewing that law and found it unconstitutional. That is what they do. The moment it is found unconstitutional by the judicial system the law must be held in suspense until it is repealed or redone to be constitutional. DADT has always been unconstitutional and this should have happened years ago.

 

[zsdersw]

Well Clinton rolled it out.. so I guess the Republicans are about as supportive as Clinton was toward gays by not changing or repealing it. Honestly, I think Obama's record on the gay agenda is quite pathetic.. he hasn't done much of anything for them other than give lip service. The repeal of DADT MIGHT happen by the end of his term. I'm not sure 'But the Republicans are worse' is the best argument to defending Obama's poor record on this.

Putting aside the idiocy of the bolded remark, the fact remains that while Obama specifically and the Democratic party in general has not done a great deal at the federal level to advance the "gay agenda" they haven't actively tried to thwart it, as the Republican party in general and religious conservatives in particular has always done. That makes them my enemy, and Democrats, as the enemy of the enemy, my friend.

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

From what I understand, Congress passed this and they want Congress to change it. If Obama got rid of it with an executive order another president could just come in and put it back.

Not exactly correct....Clinton invoked this policy to circumvent the ban. But reading more, I now understand why Clinton did it and why the fix needs to be done in Congress.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Don't_ask,_don't_tell

"The Clinton Administration on December 21, 1993[15] issued Defense Directive 1304.26, which directed that military applicants were not to be asked about their sexual orientation.[13] This is the policy now known as "Don't Ask, Don't Tell"."

 

[HumblePie]

Not exactly correct....Clinton invoked this policy to circumvent the ban. But reading more, I now understand why Clinton did it and why the fix needs to be done in Congress.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Don't_ask,_don't_tell

"The Clinton Administration on December 21, 1993[15] issued Defense Directive 1304.26, which directed that military applicants were not to be asked about their sexual orientation.[13] This is the policy now known as "Don't Ask, Don't Tell"."

Pretty much. The ban is still technically in place. The DADT was a way for Clinton to insert a loophole so that gays may serve. Without the ban, there is no need for DADT.

 

[Fear No Evil]

Putting aside the idiocy of the bolded remark, the fact remains that while Obama specifically and the Democratic party in general has not done a great deal at the federal level to advance the "gay agenda" they haven't actively tried to thwart it, as the Republican party in general and religious conservatives in particular has always done. That makes them my enemy, and Democrats, as the enemy of the enemy, my friend.

What exactly have the Republicans done to 'thwart' the gay agenda? Can you point to any particular legislation they passed or are you just playing the bigot card?

 

[zsdersw]

What exactly have the Republicans done to 'thwart' the gay agenda? Can you point to any particular legislation they passed or are you just playing the bigot card?

They've opposed measures to allow gay adoption, they've blocked attempts to extend marriage benefits to gay people, and the Republican platform states "the incompatibility of homosexuality with military service."

There's a reason the Log Cabin Republicans aren't particularly powerful in their own party.

 

[her209]

I'm surprised our Commander-In-Chief hasn't revoked this policy a long time ago. What's up with that?

Presidents can't revoke a law on a whim.

 

[Infohawk]

The Hadith states that homosexuality is a crime punishable by death. This is an affront to Islam and as such jeopardizes the lives of our troops in Afghanistan. The general should speak out about this immediately.

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

The Hadith states that homosexuality is a crime punishable by death. This is an affront to Islam and as such jeopardizes the lives of our troops in Afghanistan. The general should speak out about this immediately.

...and it helps AQ recruiting efforts!

 

[xj0hnx]

An example is provided in the article.

No it isn't. You think they only do stuff like that to haze if you're gay? lol.

 

[zsdersw]

No it isn't. You think they only do stuff like that to haze if you're gay? lol.

Perhaps you should read the article. Relevant section:

Former petty officer 3rd class Joseph Christopher Rocha, who was ultimately discharged from the Navy, had testified in graphic detail about pervasive humiliation he suffered while in training to become an elite military dog handler. A superior had forced him to simulate oral sex on another man while fellow soldiers were paraded into the room to watch. He was also once tied to a chair, force-fed dog food, and was put into a kennel filled with dog feces.

In an investigation of the misconduct, Rocha refused to answer questions because he was afraid that he would be outed if he did so, he testified.

"I'm confident that, at least personally, had 'don't ask, don't tell' not been the policy, I would have felt confident to report the abuse when it escalated and not fear reprisal,” Rocha said during trial.

 

[Fear No Evil]

They've opposed measures to allow gay adoption, they've blocked attempts to extend marriage benefits to gay people, and the Republican platform states "the incompatibility of homosexuality with military service."

There's a reason the Log Cabin Republicans aren't particularly powerful in their own party.

And now we have the Democrats with a super majority and they have done nothing for these issues? (Well, -1 in the senate now). If the Republicans were blocking everything what is the excuse now?

 

[nonlnear]

The Hadith states that homosexuality is a crime punishable by death. This is an affront to Islam and as such jeopardizes the lives of our troops in Afghanistan. The general should speak out about this immediately.

Defense Secretary Gates should call the judge personally and implore him to change his mind for the safety of the troops.

 

[xj0hnx]

Perhaps you should read the article. Relevant section:

Him being afraid to out himself doesn't mean that the hazing was because he was gay, or that he couldn't tell them what happened because he'd have to admit he was gay.

 

[Infohawk]

Defense Secretary Gates should call the judge personally and implore him to change his mind for the safety of the troops.

That's not enough. Obama needs to make a sorrowful speech about it where he sounds like he's on the verge of tears.

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

Defense Secretary Gates should call the judge personally and implore him to change his mind for the safety of the troops.

I also imagine that the POTUS and Secretary of State will be weighing in on this soon...very soon.:biggrin:

 

[zsdersw]

And now we have the Democrats with a super majority and they have done nothing for these issues? (Well, -1 in the senate now). If the Republicans were blocking everything what is the excuse now?

Super-majorities, of either the Republican or Democratic variety, do not lend themselves to what you're saying. Why? Simple: there's more diversity. In the case of a Democratic super-majority, you'll have a lot more conservative Democrats. In a Republican super-majority, you'll have a lot more liberal Republicans.

There is less incentive for members of either party to vote as one when their party has a super-majority.

 

[zsdersw]

Him being afraid to out himself doesn't mean that the hazing was because he was gay, or that he couldn't tell them what happened because he'd have to admit he was gay.

No one ever said the hazing was because he's gay, but yes.. he could've been discharged under DADT for revealing his homosexuality in testimony describing the misconduct.

 

[piasabird]

IF DADT is unconstitutional, then it falls back to the UCMJ which has laws against sodomy and cheating on your wife. Why not just change the UCMJ???

 

[peonyu]

I never really understood the problem with Gays in the military. Whats the problem with it really, that its so bad they will get booted from the Army over it. If the idea is safety, then the individual would have to be a moron to prance around as gay as possible showing that he is gay overseas. The Iraqi's would sure love that. If its trying to present the Army as manly, well we have a large number of Women in the Army now, so that idea goes out the window...So pure bigotry must be it. Which again is wierd, since it implies that only straight people should die fighting...Which only increases the percent of gays in the general population.

The only part of the Army I would feel uncomfortable in with a large number of gay folks is a submarine. Trapped there for months at a time...Eh no thanks.

 

[HumblePie]

IF DADT is unconstitutional, then it falls back to the UCMJ which has laws against sodomy and cheating on your wife. Why not just change the UCMJ???

Well, the ban was placed by congress during the World Wars era. The POTUS has the power to change the UCMJ at will pretty much as that is his executive power as enumerated by the Constitution. However, he can't change the legislation of Congress that was passed previously. DADT was a loophole Clinton added to get around the ban.

 

[PokerGuy]

Grrr. do you know the powers of the Judicial system?!?! Bah, I just typed up something about the powers of the president and now I feel I have to type it up for the judicial system because of inane comments like this. Damn, it feels like I'm teaching a bunch of 3rd graders how our government works.

This is NOT legislating from the bench as you put it. Basically a law was enacted by Congress. The judicial system finally got around to reviewing that law and found it unconstitutional. That is what they do. The moment it is found unconstitutional by the judicial system the law must be held in suspense until it is repealed or redone to be constitutional.

I'm well aware of how the system is supposed to work, but in practice activist judges can in effect create law when they want by reading all sorts of wonderful things into the law that don't exist or applying liberal logic. That's what happened here, circumventing that whole legislation problem.

 

[PokerGuy]

And how does that remove you from being disingenuous, again?

How is that possibly being disingenous? Just because I have a different opinion than you and I feel that there's a correct process for doing things?

 

[HumblePie]

I'm well aware of how the system is supposed to work, but in practice activist judges can in effect create law when they want by reading all sorts of wonderful things into the law that don't exist or applying liberal logic. That's what happened here, circumventing that whole legislation problem.

An injunction is not the creation of law. For thinking that even after I explained it makes you an idiot.