Judge reprimanded for creative sentences

ValkyrieofHouston

Golden Member
Sep 26, 2005
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I have mixed feelings on this news report. I can't stand it when people are cruel or neglectful to animals, however I also can't stand people in positions of authority who abuse their power. Thought this was an interesting and debatable news story.
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(5/23/06 - KTRK/HOUSTON) - Some judges use creative sentencing more than others. But one Harris County judge - Michael Peters - is accused of taking the idea too far and he was publicly reprimanded for it.

The state commission on judicial conduct accuses Judge Peters of failing to uphold the integrity of the judicial system. The commission's ruling stems from two sentences handed down by Judge Peters nearly two years ago -- one for an animal cruelty case, the other for illegal dumping.

A public official charged with upholding the integrity of the law, Judge Michael Peters is accused of discrediting it -- so says the state commission on judicial conduct. The commission reviewed two punishments from two cases Peters presided over. He's a judge for Harris County's criminal county court at law number two.

Back in June 2004, Peters sentenced a woman convicted of severely neglecting two horses to spend 30 days in jail and restricted her diet to bread and water for the first three days.

At the time, Judge Peters told Eyewitness News, "In my opinion, the bread and water order is more than those two horses got over the period of time that they were neglected, according to the facts of the case."

Now, nearly two years later, Judge Peters made a similar statement to us off camera.

"It was an extraordinary case, with an extraordinary facts and circumstances," he said. "I imposed a punishment I felt related to the facts of the case. I thought I was doing something good, imposing what I believed to be the right conditions for the right cases."

KTRK Legal Analyst Joel Androphy said, "We don't have an eye for an eye system of justice."

Androphy says Judge Peters should have known the orders he issued were unenforceable and a violation of state law.

"You draw the line with this book," Androphy explained. "You draw the line with the book that sets the punishment for defendants. And give some latitude. But like anything else, you take too much latitude, you get reigned in."

Judge Peters tell us though he disagrees with the commission's ruling, it has had a "chilling effect on him." He's now alerting many of his colleagues, warning them if they decide to do some creative sentencing, they too could end up in front of an ethics commission.

Link
 

QED

Diamond Member
Dec 16, 2005
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I don't see the problem with his sentence for the lady. In fact, I think that's all you should get in prision no matter what your crime. You're not there on vacation...
 

ValkyrieofHouston

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Sep 26, 2005
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I don't know what the situation was for this lady... if she neglected the horses because she couldn't afford to take care of herself let alone the horses. In that case she should have given them up. I don't know what state of mind she was in, or what her health may have been.. who knows.. Or maybe she was just an outright evil person who just didn't care about her horses. In any case, 3 days of bread and water seems like a minor thing... like a crash diet at best. But my concern is that this Judge has the potential to take things to far in his sentencing. Like the Legal Analyst said in the article "We don't have an eye for an eye system of justice." It is in fact a case by case situation, and the judge is to hand out sentences based on the facts and circumstances surrounding the cases.

Edit: Personally I think it would have been better to make her do some long term community service shoveling horse poo out of stalls for the animal shelters and help clean up the mess in pig sty areas out in the heat! Seems more fitting... since she was neglectful. ;)
 

GeneValgene

Diamond Member
Sep 18, 2002
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i like Judge Michael Cicconetti's sentences hehehe:

He has ordered a man who hollered "pigs" to police officers to stand on a street corner next to a 350-pound pig with a sign that read, "This is not a police officer."

After an 18-year-old man stole some porn from an adult bookstore, the judge ordered him to sit outside the shop in a chair, wearing a blindfold, and holding a sign saying "See No Evil" so that passing traffic could see him.

Cicconetti punished a group of high school students who vandalized school buses by making them throw a picnic for a group of grade-school students whose outing was canceled because of the stunt.

A nanny accused of hitting a little boy with a belt was given a folder of articles on the consequences of child abuse, and compelled to read them all, and then discuss them in the courtroom in front of the judge and the victim's mother, as spectators looked on. Afterward, the mother agreed to no jail time for the nanny.

Cicconetti said he can remember just two people who have been sentenced to alternative punishments and reoffended.

so i guess it does have it's benefits...
 

QED

Diamond Member
Dec 16, 2005
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"We don't have an eye for an eye system of justice"

You see... that's part of the problem-- people who think like that dipwad analyst.

Moussaui takes part in a plot that killed 3,000 Americans. We sentence him to life in prison...

Lee Malvo fires a sniper rifle into the head of several people over a period of a few weeks. We sentence him to life in prison...

17-year old Audrey Iaocona gives birth to a healthy baby boy. Her friend are going to the mall later that day, so she chokes the newborn baby by wrapping a blue bath towel around its neck before stuffing it in two kitchen-size trash bags. She was initially sentenced to 8 years in prision, but after the judge received a lot of criticism for such a "harsh" sentence she was resentenced down to 24 months.
 

BlueWeasel

Lifer
Jun 2, 2000
15,944
475
126
Originally posted by: MathMan
"We don't have an eye for an eye system of justice"

You see... that's part of the problem-- people who think like that dipwad analyst.

Moussaui takes part in a plot that killed 3,000 Americans. We sentence him to life in prison...

Lee Malvo fires a sniper rifle into the head of several people over a period of a few weeks. We sentence him to life in prison...

17-year old Audrey Iaocona gives birth to a healthy baby boy. Her friend are going to the mall later that day, so she chokes the newborn baby by wrapping a blue bath towel around its neck before stuffing it in two kitchen-size trash bags. She was initially sentenced to 8 years in prision, but after the judge received a lot of criticism for such a "harsh" sentence she was resentenced down to 24 months.

:thumbsup:
 

ValkyrieofHouston

Golden Member
Sep 26, 2005
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Originally posted by: MathMan
"We don't have an eye for an eye system of justice"


Moussaui takes part in a plot that killed 3,000 Americans. We sentence him to life in prison...

Personally, I think death is too easy an out for someone like Moussaui... let him rot in that tiny little cell in prison... let him slowly go mad as far as I am concerned.
 

QED

Diamond Member
Dec 16, 2005
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Originally posted by: ValkyrieofHouston
Originally posted by: MathMan
"We don't have an eye for an eye system of justice"


Moussaui takes part in a plot that killed 3,000 Americans. We sentence him to life in prison...

Personally, I think death is too easy an out for someone like Moussaui... let him rot in that tiny little cell in prison... let him slowly go mad as far as I am concerned.

I see where you're coming from, but Al Qaeda didn't give the 3000 people they killed a choice between death or life inside of a federal prison with cable TV, workout facilities, leisure activities and 3 square meals day.

If Moussaui were headed for an Iranian prision, or an Egyptian prison then I might see the justice, but for this turdball to sit in the same cell Martha Stewart was in just doesn't seem right.
 

ATLien247

Diamond Member
Feb 1, 2000
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There's a district court judge here in Utah that has a penchant for ordering convicts to write book reports on subjects he thinks are related to the case.
 

ggnl

Diamond Member
Jul 2, 2004
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Originally posted by: MathMan
Originally posted by: ValkyrieofHouston
Originally posted by: MathMan
"We don't have an eye for an eye system of justice"


Moussaui takes part in a plot that killed 3,000 Americans. We sentence him to life in prison...

Personally, I think death is too easy an out for someone like Moussaui... let him rot in that tiny little cell in prison... let him slowly go mad as far as I am concerned.

I see where you're coming from, but Al Qaeda didn't give the 3000 people they killed a choice between death or life inside of a federal prison with cable TV, workout facilities, leisure activities and 3 square meals day.

If Moussaui were headed for an Iranian prision, or an Egyptian prison then I might see the justice, but for this turdball to sit in the same cell Martha Stewart was in just doesn't seem right.

There aren't any TVs where Moussaui is going.

 

QED

Diamond Member
Dec 16, 2005
3,428
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O RLY?

From the article you posted:

They exist alone in soundproof cells as small as 7 feet by 12 feet, with a concrete-poured desk, bed and stool, a small shower and sink, and a TV that offers religious and anger-management programs.

and

But prisoners can earn extra privileges, like a wider variety of television offerings, more exercise time and visitation rights, based on their behavior.
 

SirStev0

Lifer
Nov 13, 2003
10,449
6
81
Originally posted by: MathMan
"We don't have an eye for an eye system of justice"

You see... that's part of the problem-- people who think like that dipwad analyst.

Moussaui takes part in a plot that killed 3,000 Americans. We sentence him to life in prison...

Lee Malvo fires a sniper rifle into the head of several people over a period of a few weeks. We sentence him to life in prison...

17-year old Audrey Iaocona gives birth to a healthy baby boy. Her friend are going to the mall later that day, so she chokes the newborn baby by wrapping a blue bath towel around its neck before stuffing it in two kitchen-size trash bags. She was initially sentenced to 8 years in prision, but after the judge received a lot of criticism for such a "harsh" sentence she was resentenced down to 24 months.

and don't forget if you have a few ounces of marijauna... mandatory minimum sentences ftw
 

dullard

Elite Member
May 21, 2001
25,950
4,539
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I personally would love to see unusual punishments. However, we sadly have a constitutional amendment #8 that bans them. I'm not for cruel punishments, but there is nothing wrong with unusual punishments in my mind.

Thus, the judge was wrong. Until the constitution is changed there should be no such punishments.
 

ryan256

Platinum Member
Jul 22, 2005
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Had he ordered no food for 3 days yeah I could definitely see an official reprimand over that one. Bread & water only?? Come on. However unpleasant it may have been at no time was her health jeopardized.
 

mugs

Lifer
Apr 29, 2003
48,920
46
91
Originally posted by: dullard
I personally would love to see unusual punishments. However, we sadly have a constitutional amendment #8 that bans them. I'm not for cruel punishments, but there is nothing wrong with unusual punishments in my mind.

Thus, the judge was wrong. Until the constitution is changed there should be no such punishments.

It says cruel and unusual punishments, not cruel or unusual punishments. ;) Seems like it could be unusual if it's not cruel. But then you could also say that it can be cruel as long as it's not unusual, but on the other hand any cruel punishment could be considered unusual...

What makes a punishment "unusual" anyway? They weren't very clear on that in the constitution. You could say that the death penalty is "unusual" since it is infrequently applied.

In other words, I really don't think the founding fathers were trying to prevent judges from forcing a person to exist on bread and water for 3 days or spend a night in the woods or standing on the side of a road with a sign saying they shoplifted or what have you. The bread thing could be considered "cruel" in that it is detrimental to the prisoner's health, but it was only 3 days. If it was a month it could be considered cruel.
 

DaShen

Lifer
Dec 1, 2000
10,710
1
0
Originally posted by: GeneValgene
3 days with bread and water is not bad at all...i thoguht the punishment would be much worse hehe

something like this seems more out there:
Woman Ordered to Spend Night in Woods for Abandoning Kittens

Yeah, I thought the judge was fair and just in his decision.

**EDIT**
But since Judges are appointed/chosen until retirement. It doesn't matter to him unless they get him to step down. But he made some good judging there.
 

waggy

No Lifer
Dec 14, 2000
68,143
10
81
Originally posted by: GeneValgene
i like Judge Michael Cicconetti's sentences hehehe:

He has ordered a man who hollered "pigs" to police officers to stand on a street corner next to a 350-pound pig with a sign that read, "This is not a police officer."

After an 18-year-old man stole some porn from an adult bookstore, the judge ordered him to sit outside the shop in a chair, wearing a blindfold, and holding a sign saying "See No Evil" so that passing traffic could see him.

Cicconetti punished a group of high school students who vandalized school buses by making them throw a picnic for a group of grade-school students whose outing was canceled because of the stunt.

A nanny accused of hitting a little boy with a belt was given a folder of articles on the consequences of child abuse, and compelled to read them all, and then discuss them in the courtroom in front of the judge and the victim's mother, as spectators looked on. Afterward, the mother agreed to no jail time for the nanny.

Cicconetti said he can remember just two people who have been sentenced to alternative punishments and reoffended.

so i guess it does have it's benefits...

haha i think those are great. those type of punishments for minor crimes are more effective.

 

Injury

Lifer
Jul 19, 2004
13,066
2
81
OH NO! 3 DAYS WITH ONLY BREAD AND WATER! THAT'S SO HARSH!

If someone is whining about this, they have too much free time.
 

fbrdphreak

Lifer
Apr 17, 2004
17,555
1
0
Originally posted by: waggy
Originally posted by: GeneValgene
i like Judge Michael Cicconetti's sentences hehehe:

He has ordered a man who hollered "pigs" to police officers to stand on a street corner next to a 350-pound pig with a sign that read, "This is not a police officer."

After an 18-year-old man stole some porn from an adult bookstore, the judge ordered him to sit outside the shop in a chair, wearing a blindfold, and holding a sign saying "See No Evil" so that passing traffic could see him.

Cicconetti punished a group of high school students who vandalized school buses by making them throw a picnic for a group of grade-school students whose outing was canceled because of the stunt.

A nanny accused of hitting a little boy with a belt was given a folder of articles on the consequences of child abuse, and compelled to read them all, and then discuss them in the courtroom in front of the judge and the victim's mother, as spectators looked on. Afterward, the mother agreed to no jail time for the nanny.

Cicconetti said he can remember just two people who have been sentenced to alternative punishments and reoffended.

so i guess it does have it's benefits...

haha i think those are great. those type of punishments for minor crimes are more effective.
That guy is the man :thumbsup:
 

dullard

Elite Member
May 21, 2001
25,950
4,539
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Originally posted by: mugs
It says cruel and unusual punishments, not cruel or unusual punishments. ;) Seems like it could be unusual if it's not cruel. But then you could also say that it can be cruel as long as it's not unusual, but on the other hand any cruel punishment could be considered unusual...

What makes a punishment "unusual" anyway? They weren't very clear on that in the constitution. You could say that the death penalty is "unusual" since it is infrequently applied.
That is why we have the court system, to decide on ambiguous language. I think it has been decided long ago in the courts that the amendment bans cruel punishment AND it bans unusual punishment. Then it is up to the courts again to decide what makes something unusual. I've heard of a murder cases getting appeals because the death penalty form used is not common anymore in the US. In fact, that is one technique that is currently being used by death penalty opponents - make them unusual (isolate the electric chair to just one or two states) and therefore banned (repeat with all other forms until they are all unusual and banned).