Judge in Year 2000 terrorist case speaks some sense

[imported_Condor]

Originally posted by: Todd33

Originally posted by: Condor
We got here fighting on our feet, not crawling on our bellies!

Then join and ship out. There is a "war" to fight, why do you just sit at your keyboard and act tough?

They don't take old folks and I did RVN, San Salvador, Tegu, Mex City, Honduras, etc. Just retired from "shippinhg out" last year. What have you done except whine and admire Clinton? Take a couple of college courses in world history from liberal profs and get into a food fight in the caf? I suspect that I was standing and fighting while you were crawling.

 

[drewshin]

Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken

Originally posted by: drewshin

Do we give every law breaker a life sentence because we're afraid of what they'll do when they get out? Grow up, think for a change. Oh I'm sorry, I forgot that you wanted the US to turn into the next communist Russia. Stop hating the American values that have made this country great.

WTF? Am I talking about "every lawbreaker"? Of course not. Are there lawbreakers that do get life sentences in this country for hideous crimes? Absolutely. If we're going to go the judicial route with terrorists, fine. But make the punishment equal to the crime for terrorism. Rassam came into this country with the itent of murdering a lot of innocent Americans. So why does he get only a few years in prison for that intent? He should get life with no chance of parole. Is it worth the potential cost to release him and eventually have him come back and kill Americans anyway? Well if you believe that, then I'll just hang with the terrorist sympathizer or terrorist apologist tag on you. It seems more than fair to make the lame accusation after your lame claims about me.

Sorry, but I live in the United States of America, not the Communist state of Russia like you would want it to be. So you would like to put people in prison for life for "intent" only. You would like every lawbreaker to go to life in prison, and not just every lawbreaker, but every person you think has an "intent" to break a law. Pretty soon, you're going to want anyone who has a good chance of commiting a crime to go to prison or put to death. You hear a Palestinian child who has no idea what he's saying when he says "Death to America", and you'd want to see him put against the wall and shot because he could possibly decide in the future to hurt Americans. No thank you, but thanks for playing!

Are you such an idiot in real life? Or do you just play one on the internet?[/quote]

No, just thought it was time for you to shut up. As soon as the level of vocabulary here turns up a notch, or you face some hard questions or the truth, you automatically disappear or start typing in some nonsensical gibberish. You can't comment on what I wrote above because you know it's true, you just try to put a good front as the "conscientous" conservative and "doing what's necessary to keep America safe", but we all know that conservatives nowadays are far from that.

the USA IS one of or the best countries in the world because of it's constitution and Bill of Rights. dont let an idiot in sheep's clothing take that away from us.

 

[TastesLikeChicken]

Originally posted by: drewshin

Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken

Originally posted by: drewshin

Do we give every law breaker a life sentence because we're afraid of what they'll do when they get out? Grow up, think for a change. Oh I'm sorry, I forgot that you wanted the US to turn into the next communist Russia. Stop hating the American values that have made this country great.

WTF? Am I talking about "every lawbreaker"? Of course not. Are there lawbreakers that do get life sentences in this country for hideous crimes? Absolutely. If we're going to go the judicial route with terrorists, fine. But make the punishment equal to the crime for terrorism. Rassam came into this country with the itent of murdering a lot of innocent Americans. So why does he get only a few years in prison for that intent? He should get life with no chance of parole. Is it worth the potential cost to release him and eventually have him come back and kill Americans anyway? Well if you believe that, then I'll just hang with the terrorist sympathizer or terrorist apologist tag on you. It seems more than fair to make the lame accusation after your lame claims about me.

Sorry, but I live in the United States of America, not the Communist state of Russia like you would want it to be. So you would like to put people in prison for life for "intent" only. You would like every lawbreaker to go to life in prison, and not just every lawbreaker, but every person you think has an "intent" to break a law. Pretty soon, you're going to want anyone who has a good chance of commiting a crime to go to prison or put to death. You hear a Palestinian child who has no idea what he's saying when he says "Death to America", and you'd want to see him put against the wall and shot because he could possibly decide in the future to hurt Americans. No thank you, but thanks for playing!

Are you such an idiot in real life? Or do you just play one on the internet?

No, just thought it was time for you to shut up. As soon as the level of vocabulary here turns up a notch, or you face some hard questions or the truth, you automatically disappear or start typing in some nonsensical gibberish. You can't comment on what I wrote above because you know it's true, you just try to put a good front as the "conscientous" conservative and "doing what's necessary to keep America safe", but we all know that conservatives nowadays are far from that.

the USA IS one of or the best countries in the world because of it's constitution and Bill of Rights. dont let an idiot in sheep's clothing take that away from us.[/quote]
Another of the liberty and freedom for all crew telling someone to "shut up." If there's anything you guys are consistent at, it's telling those with opposing viewpoints to do that.

Nor have you turned any vocabulary "up a notch." You make vapid little accusations about what I supposedly desire and little more, ignoring what I've already clarified about "intent" and to whom, how, and why it should apply. If you want to continue to play that little game -- Keep making lame apologies for the terrorists, all the while trying to convince everyone what a patriot you are and how much you love this country. Sure you do. :roll:

 

[GroundedSailor]

Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
Another of the liberty and freedom for all crew telling someone to "shut up." If there's anything you guys are consistent at, it's telling those with opposing viewpoints to do that.

Nor have you turned any vocabulary "up a notch." You make vapid little accusations about what I supposedly desire and little more, ignoring what I've already clarified about "intent" and to whom, how, and why it should apply. If you want to continue to play that little game -- Keep making lame apologies for the terrorists, all the while trying to convince everyone what a patriot you are and how much you love this country. Sure you do. :roll:

In all your postings here one simple fact seems to elude you: disagreement with an idea or a policy is not equal to unpatriotic.

Patriotism is the love for one country and can also be described as what you are prepared to do for your country. It does not automatically mean that you have to agree with every single policy and action of the administration in office at any given time.

That simple concept is called "freedom" or "liberty". You are free to have and express your own opinions which has noting to do with your patriotism.

 

[TastesLikeChicken]

Originally posted by: GroundedSailor

Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
Another of the liberty and freedom for all crew telling someone to "shut up." If there's anything you guys are consistent at, it's telling those with opposing viewpoints to do that.

Nor have you turned any vocabulary "up a notch." You make vapid little accusations about what I supposedly desire and little more, ignoring what I've already clarified about "intent" and to whom, how, and why it should apply. If you want to continue to play that little game -- Keep making lame apologies for the terrorists, all the while trying to convince everyone what a patriot you are and how much you love this country. Sure you do. :roll:

In all your postings here one simple fact seems to elude you: disagreement with an idea or a policy is not equal to unpatriotic.

Patriotism is the love for one country and can also be described as what you are prepared to do for your country. It does not automatically mean that you have to agree with every single policy and action of the administration in office at any given time.

That simple concept is called "freedom" or "liberty". You are free to have and express your own opinions which has noting to do with your patriotism.

I don't have a problem with disagreement of ideas whatsoever. But when someone has to stoop to making outlandish accusations (I forgot that you wanted the US to turn into the next communist Russia. Stop hating the American values that have made this country great. / Sorry, but I live in the United States of America, not the Communist state of Russia like you would want it to be) because they can't actually seem to argue the point successfully, that does bother me. My response was over-the-top hyperbole to mirror the kind of garbage drewshin was spewing about and a reading of what I wrote makes that pretty damn clear.

 

[halik]

Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
Erm, Rassam came onto US soil and we were not at war at the time.

You absolutely missed the point of what the judge said.

 

[halik]

Originally posted by: drewshin
I'm glad someone was brave enough to state that our court system is good enough to try these terrorists and that our Constitution is a model for the rest of the world - not something that's not fit for today's world like some would have you believe.

U.S. District Judge John C. Coughenour

The message I would hope to convey in today's sentencing is twofold:

First, that we have the resolve in this country to deal with the subject of terrorism and people who engage in it should be prepared to sacrifice a major portion of their life in confinement.

Secondly, though, I would like to convey the message that our system works. We did not need to use a secret military tribunal, or detain the defendant indefinitely as an enemy combatant, or deny him the right to counsel, or invoke any proceedings beyond those guaranteed by or contrary to the United States Constitution.

I would suggest that the message to the world from today's sentencing is that our courts have not abandoned our commitment to the ideals that set our nation apart. We can deal with the threats to our national security without denying the accused fundamental constitutional protections.

Despite the fact that Mr. Ressam is not an American citizen and despite the fact that he entered this country intent upon killing American citizens, he received an effective, vigorous defense, and the opportunity to have his guilt or innocence determined by a jury of 12 ordinary citizens.

Most importantly, all of this occurred in the sunlight of a public trial. There were no secret proceedings, no indefinite detention, no denial of counsel.

The tragedy of September 11th shook our sense of security and made us realize that we, too, are vulnerable to acts of terrorism.

Unfortunately, some believe that this threat renders our Constitution obsolete. This is a Constitution for which men and women have died and continue to die and which has made us a model among nations. If that view is allowed to prevail, the terrorists will have won.

It is my sworn duty, and as long as there is breath in my body I'll perform it, to support and defend the Constitution of the United States. We will be in recess.

the day we start circumventing the framework that this country was founded upon, the secrifice of tens of thousands of people that defended it in the past 300 years becomes meaningless.

 

[TastesLikeChicken]

Originally posted by: halik

Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
Erm, Rassam came onto US soil and we were not at war at the time.

you absolutely missed the point of what the judge said. Read it again and let it sit for a while.

Why don't you read some of my subsequent replies and let them sink in for a while?

 

[halik]

Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken

Originally posted by: halik

Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
Erm, Rassam came onto US soil and we were not at war at the time.

you absolutely missed the point of what the judge said. Read it again and let it sit for a while.

Why don't you read some of my subsequent replies and let them sink in for a while?

I've read your responses and the fact stands. You can spend weeks arguing about the nuances and technicalities why we are able to circmvent the due process in this or that case, but that again completly misses the point.

The idea here is that we are able to offer these "people" the same protections and due process we enjoy ourselves. The sole fact that regardless of their intent, nationality or anything we put them through the same process that we consider Just for ourselves makes us morally and intellectually superior - and in the end American. Anything less is a travesty on what this country stands for.

 

[drewshin]

Sorry TLC, I didn't want you to shut up, I just notice that's what you do when you dont want to answer questions. Either that or you start spouting of some over the top garbage and try to hijack people's threads with it.

Again, as Halik mentioned you missed the Judge's point. You instead decided to go off on your own little tangent and start whining. It's really too bad that you can't understand that.

Again, I dont take anything that I said back, I know that's how you truly feel but it wouldn't look good for the "virtuous/conscientious" front that you so called conservatives are trying to put up.

Speaking of Nazis (in your sig), I found another quote by Orwell about nationalists:

The nationalist not only does not disapprove of atrocities committed by his own side, but he has a remarkable capacity for not even hearing about them.

I guess I can see now where the problem lies.

BTW nice use of the word vapid, I hope you didnt do that for my benefit. You shouldn't have! :laugh:

 

[assemblage]

He got a light sentence for the crime. Maybe another inmate will help administer the justice this judge was incapable of delivering.