Judge blocks Fla.'s new welfare drug testing law

[peonyu]

Every job I have had required a drug test before they would hire me, and that is for me to work hours a day for my pay - No freebies like what Welfare seekers receive. Considering that most people working a job had to take the test - Why should Welfare recipients be off the hook when they dont work, and are receiving free money from the Government ? By all accounts they should have to be screened - Especially since they are not working, and they DONT have co-workers around to notice if they are coked up or not.

Honest people trying to get on welfare would have zero problem with drug tests, its the scumbags who will shriek about it [and are likely already on welfare and are druggies].


Id like to see this law taken to the people to vote on [it wont happen though]...If it did im sure 90% would vote yes for a drug test.



Also as far as FL goes, I cant count how many times I have had people standing in front of grocery stores and asking people as they go in if they would trade 3 $20 bills for $80 in welfare money...Drugs ? You bet.

 

[FuzzyBee]

If I subsidize the health insurance of my employees, I am going to want to know if they are doing anything that could cause my costs to increase. Drug use most likely would.

 

[peonyu]

You shouldn't have to pass a drug test to get a job. You Americans just love telling people what to in their private lives.

If someone wants to get high on there own time then just leave them be ffs.

The only jobs here that require drug tests are jobs that involve heavy machinery, or whatever. And they're usually on day tests.

If my work tested for drugs they would loose a lot of good people.

The issue is the folks who are druggies tend to have no ethics at all. Do you think a coke head would feel bad about hustling $100 of his free welfare money and trading it for $80 of real US bills ? Hell no, they dont care at all and it happens all the time. Thats one of the problems, welfare money is as good as cash as long as its used on selected items, so they DO find people who will trade them real money for their welfare cash. They take the traded real money and buy drugs with it.

Bottomline is, if you want assistance and handouts for having a hard time in life you should accept that there are conditions that come with that...A drug test is not asking much at all considering the reason for it is to not misuse the assistance they receive.

 

[soundforbjt]

How about all the corporations, people getting farm subsidies, earned income credit, all which could be considered welfare take the same tests as well?

Welfare comes in many forms.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

Here ya go, bold text for emphasis.

We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

Argue what you will, but since 1937 that clause has allow for massive expansion of the Government in providing for the less well off.

In other words, it isn't explicitly stated.

As far as the text above, you could argue that the bolded portion above permits drug tests for recipients, so once again, Dave is off base. Which was my point, of course.

And that even ignores what the founders meant by "promote the general welfare," which is twisted by every politician to meet their agendas. I call it the "cop out clause."

 

[ShawnD1]

The only time I have ever been drug tested was for the military. I can understand its use there. I don't want the guy next to me with a gun freaking out in a fire fight because he suddenly thought everyone was a demon.

LOL. Irony found.
USAF and amphetamine
US military and amphetamine
You remember amphetamine, right? That's the one that causes mania and hallucinations. It's one of the drugs that will make you think you're being attacked by zombies. This effect was originally called "amphetamine psychosis" but it was later changed to "stimulant psychosis" because it happens with many stimulants that are not amphetamines.

The issue is the folks who are druggies tend to have no ethics at all. Do you think a coke head would feel bad about hustling $100 of his free welfare money and trading it for $80 of real US bills ? Hell no, they dont care at all and it happens all the time. Thats one of the problems, welfare money is as good as cash as long as its used on selected items, so they DO find people who will trade them real money for their welfare cash. They take the traded real money and buy drugs with it.

The problem with what you're saying is that roughly 100% of college students are druggies yet they don't seem to have any of these problems.
1 in 5 students admit to taking amphetamine and the rest lie about it. Trust me. I went to college.

 

[dank69]

I have no issue with anyone who is receiving a government paycheck or funds be subject to random drug screens.

So you like to pay for welfare and also the drug testing for people on welfare? That is very kind hearted of you. Are you sure you are a conservative?

 

[Londo_Jowo]

So you like to pay for welfare and also the drug testing for people on welfare? That is very kind hearted of you. Are you sure you are a conservative?

I don't like to see the government pay money to those who will use it for something else. If drug testing stops welfare fraud it was money well spent.

 

[shortylickens]

Yes to answer your question at the end. People getting a free ride off of tax payers should not be on drugs. IMO at least, and im sure im in the majority of what real americans would want.

Agreed. The constitution protects your right to privacy but it does NOT guarantee free handouts. You want cash, theres strings attached, its that simple.

 

[ShawnD1]

I don't like to see the government pay money to those who will use it for something else. If drug testing stops welfare fraud it was money well spent.

We already went over this in the other thread. Cocaine only stays in your body for about 3 days. That means you would need to test EVERY PERSON 10x per month. The cost of testing them would dwarf the cost of giving them money without testing.

 

[dank69]

I don't like to see the government pay money to those who will use it for something else. If drug testing stops welfare fraud it was money well spent.

I understand you don't like to see it. Do you understand the net effect is you paying more in order to not see it and there is still no guarantee you will not see it?

 

[Londo_Jowo]

I like the way you guys act like the drug testing doesn't work. I've seen a random drug screen during a turnarounds in a refineries catch as many of 25% of the contract work force. They always seem to be able to catch a decent percentage with the random drug screens, I'm sure the same would be true with welfare recipients.

 

[dank69]

I like the way you guys act like the drug testing doesn't work. I've seen a random drug screen during a turnarounds in a refineries catch as many of 25% of the contract work force. They always seem to be able to catch a decent percentage with the random drug screens, I'm sure the same would be true with welfare recipients.

It's not that it doesn't work. It's that it isn't 100% effective and costs the tax payer more in the long run. There was a study posted awhile ago about how few people were actually denied benefits because of failed drug tests.

 

[Londo_Jowo]

So a $5 drug testing kit that detects the 10 most common illegal drugs is too expensive to root out fraud? Sounds like those administrators that fail to enforce the law/rules need to be terminated, though I'm sure they're protected by some union.

 

[OutHouse]

If I subsidize the health insurance of my employees, I am going to want to know if they are doing anything that could cause my costs to increase. Drug use most likely would.

oh boy here we go. health insurance has become the go to for every thing now as an excuse for an employer to stick their nose into private business. either conform or no health insurance for you!!!!


as an employer, how exactly will somebody smoking a joint increase your health insurance?

 

[jstern01]

Capitalizing a word means it has a definition explained somewhere else in the document. What is the government's definition of Welfare in this case? We can't go by the dictionary definition since dictionary stuff usually does not apply. In one document I read over, the contract defined Quality with a very long explanation that had specific numbers.

I was emphasising that passage because it has been used as the reason by government to provide welfare and other services/aid to less off. Argue what you will, but that is the facts as they are on the ground.

 

[IGBT]

You shouldn't have to pass a drug test to get a job. You Americans just love telling people what to in their private lives.

If someone wants to get high on there own time then just leave them be ffs.

The only jobs here that require drug tests are jobs that involve heavy machinery, or whatever. And they're usually on day tests.

If my work tested for drugs they would loose a lot of good people.

good people aren't dopers.

 

[OutHouse]

So a $5 drug testing kit that detects the 10 most common illegal drugs is too expensive to root out fraud? Sounds like those administrators that fail to enforce the law/rules need to be terminated, though I'm sure they're protected by some union.

total fail.

you forgot the testing locations, which includes rent and utilities, computers, furniture, office supplies, the staff to check people in to watch people piss in the cup. the database and all related IT things, paying to have the pee tested...

those $5.00 test kids are for home use, not commercial.

there is a lot more to this than just going to walgreens and buying a test kit.

 

[ShawnD1]

So a $5 drug testing kit that detects the 10 most common illegal drugs is too expensive to root out fraud? Sounds like those administrators that fail to enforce the law/rules need to be terminated, though I'm sure they're protected by some union.

Ugggg. Another crazy person who thinks time is free. Are you also ones of those guys who says changing all of the office computers to Linux will cost $0?

http://www.aclu.org/drug-law-reform/drug-testing-public-assistance-recipients-condition-eligibility

Before the Michigan policy was halted, only 10% of recipients tested positive for illicit drugs. Only 3% tested positive for hard drugs, such as cocaine and amphetamines[3] – rates that are in line with the drug use rates of the general population.[4]

The average cost of a drug test is about $42 per person tested,[8] not including the costs of hiring personnel to administer the tests, to ensure confidentiality of results and to run confirmatory tests to guard against false positives resulting from passive drug exposure, cross-identification with legal, prescription drugs such as codeine and legal substances such as poppy seeds.

Another way to measure the cost is by counting what it costs to “catch” each drug user. Drug testing is not used by many private employers because of the exorbitant cost of catching each person who tests positive. One electronics manufacturer, for example, estimated that the cost of finding each person who tested positive was $20,000, since after testing 10,000 employees, only 49 tested positive. A congressional committee also estimated that the cost of each positive drug test of government employees was $77,000, because the positive rate was only 0.5%.[9]

Now that's money well spent. Let's spend 77k on drug testing so we can prevent wasting 20k. This r lojikal

 

[dank69]

good people aren't dopers.

What about drinkers? Are they all bad people, too?

 

[OutHouse]

good people aren't dopers.

funny i know a heart surgeon who smokes a bowl a couple times a week.

 

[jstern01]

I don't like to see the government pay money to those who will use it for something else. If drug testing stops welfare fraud it was money well spent.

Look since this policy took effect in Florida is has caught 2 people out of 40 tested and one is appealing. Total cost of tests over $1000, total saved in benefits $240/m. What you may not know is that even if caught, they can reapply the next month, and may not get caught. (sarcasm on) So yeah this is really good use of tax payer money (sarcasm off).


http://www.rawstory.com/rawreplay/2011/08/floridas-welfare-drug-testing-costs-more-than-it-saves/

 

[Londo_Jowo]

total fail.

you forgot the testing location, which includes rent and utilities, the staff to check people in to watch people piss in the cup. the database and all realted IT things, paying to have the pee tested...

those $5.00 test kids are for home use, not commercial.

there is a lot more to this than just going to walgreens and buying a test kit.

Wow, I can tell you people are out of touch, refineries have porta pottys set up and only have 2 or 3 people checking. The cups have thermometers to ensure the urine is the correct temperature, so no need to watch. Test results are immediately available. The drug test kits they use are $5 in price due to buying in bulk.

 

[jstern01]

Wow, I can tell you people are out of touch, refineries have porta pottys set up and only have 2 or 3 people checking. The cups have thermometers to ensure the urine is the correct temperature, so no need to watch. Test results are immediately available. The drug test kits they use are $5 in price due to buying in bulk.

So ripe for the lawyers to pluck the companies of their profits. No company is going to risk a lawsuit using a $5 kit.

 

[OutHouse]

Wow, I can tell you people are out of touch, refineries have porta pottys set up and only have 2 or 3 people checking. The cups have thermometers to ensure the urine is the correct temperature, so no need to watch. Test results are immediately available. The drug test kits they use are $5 in price due to buying in bulk.

dude you are the one out of touch with reality. you can not compare a onsite drug test for employees to a state wide drug test for the public. two totally different animals and cost.


but yea never mind my 13 years of experience with a company that does drug testing at all levels of government.

FYI those $5.00 drug test kits will not stand up in court and you can bet your ass the accuracy will be challenged. Especially when its the government doing the testing.