John Paulson Made $5 Billion in 2010

[Craig234]

It's actually paid for by US taxpayers, if you really get down to it, because socialist policies, like the ones I'm sure you advocate, bailed out banks which financed these sub prime loans, which comes at a cost to taxpayers.

Also, what is "reasonable"? Where do you draw the line?

What the hell is wrong with you? Making the rich richer by using tax dollars to let the rich have irresponsible investment losses repaid is the opposite of socialism.

You are so confused because you just make up what words mean wrongly, and so you blame the solution for the problem.

Thanks to Jhhnn for also pointing out the error in your post well.

My saying 95% of everything said about liberals is wrong or lies here in so many dozens of cases to show how deluded the right is about liberals is having about as much effect on the right as telling crack addicts they'd benefit from quitting. Not because they can show a single example I've posted is wrong - they can't - but because they have three mouths and no ears.

Child molestation? Liberals' fault. Bad drivers? Liberals' fault. Bad television shows? Liberals' fault.

And now, the corruption of our political system by the money of concentrated wealth, which THE RIGHT falls for and sells out to - liberals' fault.

The fact it's the progressives and only the progressives who scream for breaking up 'too big to fail' while virtually all Republicans and corporatist Democrats have sold out the public to the corporatocracy is utterly lost on these ignorant people who 'blame liberals' for this, too, just as they're propagandized too, spitting in the face of any American who has ever foolishly suggested the people are capable of self-government. If we are, it's only by having people like this be few in number.

 

[Brainonska511]

Fern mentions the Hedge fund manager exemption all that is is a subset of the Mathew effect the rich can bribe/buy politicians to call regular income long term capital gains. It's not going anywhere. Neither is CEOs paying themselves $1 at increasing rates and taking real money LTCG.

This is why the bitching for the top brackets to be increased is futile. All that does is hit professionals, e.g. lawyers, accountants, doctors - people that are doing well, but by no means super-rich (where there money can make money and they can support themselves on that alone). As long as passive income sources are treated differently from earned income, the super rich, those in the top .1%, will continue to screw us all.

 

[JS80]

Hey guys,

His income earned from managing the hedge fund is nothing like LT cap gains.

He has no money invested, bears no risk of loss as with 'normal' capital investments.

This is special tax law provision for hegde fund managers. Basically it's salary/commission for managing the fund (and should be taxed at normal rates). IIRC, it's called the 'carried interest provision'.

No need to get regular cap gains discussion confused with this.

BTW: JSt0rm, Everything I hear say it's Schumer (D) who has blocking any change to this absurd tax rule.

Fern

10/10

Gambling with your own money and being rewarded with 15% LTCG is one thing, gambling with other people's money with zero downside risk to you is a straight up loophole.

But of course it's an asshole with a (D) next to his name that is blocking any change lol. Not that there's a distinction between the two letters these days anyway.

 

[jackstar7]

I wonder what he'll spend it on...

 

[gingermeggs]

Well if he had to pay more taxes then he wouldnt want to make money anymore. We know this to be true because the republicans told us so.

or is it just his cut of the wall st handouts?
That the American public are paying for.

 

[gingermeggs]

What the hell is wrong with you? Making the rich richer by using tax dollars to let the rich have irresponsible investment losses repaid is the opposite of socialism.

You are so confused because you just make up what words mean wrongly, and so you blame the solution for the problem.

Thanks to Jhhnn for also pointing out the error in your post well.

My saying 95% of everything said about liberals is wrong or lies here in so many dozens of cases to show how deluded the right is about liberals is having about as much effect on the right as telling crack addicts they'd benefit from quitting. Not because they can show a single example I've posted is wrong - they can't - but because they have three mouths and no ears.

Child molestation? Liberals' fault. Bad drivers? Liberals' fault. Bad television shows? Liberals' fault.

And now, the corruption of our political system by the money of concentrated wealth, which THE RIGHT falls for and sells out to - liberals' fault.

The fact it's the progressives and only the progressives who scream for breaking up 'too big to fail' while virtually all Republicans and corporatist Democrats have sold out the public to the corporatocracy is utterly lost on these ignorant people who 'blame liberals' for this, too, just as they're propagandized too, spitting in the face of any American who has ever foolishly suggested the people are capable of self-government. If we are, it's only by having people like this be few in number.

So which Democrat is suggesting reenactment of the original Glass–Steagall Act???
Shure da fuck ain't obammma, mama!
You need to some serious reform....who, how and will it be in time to save US?
Gezues! the English look to be better odds!
It's more then ideological wrong and right, it's the need for serious, unmolested leadership, it's not look good at all for the whole world really, everyone is bought or killed.

 

[Jhhnn]

So which Democrat is suggesting reenactment of the original Glass–Steagall Act???
Shure da fuck ain't obammma, mama!
You need to some serious reform....who, how and will it be in time to save US?
Gezues! the English look to be better odds!
It's more then ideological wrong and right, it's the need for serious, unmolested leadership, it's not look good at all for the whole world really, everyone is bought or killed.

Dems are looking for what's actually do-able, and with repubs in control of the HOR and holding a filibuster enabling minority in the Senate, that's not going to be much. That strong Senate minority made sure little was possible over the last 4 years, as well. Dems also have to contend with their own corporatist members.

Ideological posturing gets us nowhere. The best that can be accomplished against the banking corporatocracy ATM is nibbling at the edges. That doesn't mean I like it, but rather that I'm a realist.

What you offer is like suggesting we attempt to scale Everest in our underwear-It's not something we can actually accomplish, but we can kill ourselves in the attempt.

 

[Phokus]

The dude paid his taxes I'm sure, unless you can give me a specific loophole he exploited and give evidence supporting this.

Money is power, yes, but you cannot defy the laws of physics no matter how rich you are.

The IRS in the past has released a list (excluding names) of top taxpayers, with the highest tax payers paying hundreds of millions of dollars in taxes. This was years ago before hedge fund managers made $1+ billion.

1) Carried Interest Loophole, which allows hedge fund managers and Private Equity partners to be taxed at capital gains.

2) Lowering of Capital gains (thanks to GWB for lowering those)

The top 400 Americans paid an effective tax rate of 16% in 2007 thanks to these two parts of the tax code. Hedge fund managers are the worst abusers of these (actually i think only they can exploit the carried interest loophole)

http://blogs.wsj.com/economics/2010/02/17/a-look-at-the-tax-returns-of-the-top-400-taxpayers/

 

[Phokus]

10/10

Gambling with your own money and being rewarded with 15% LTCG is one thing, gambling with other people's money with zero downside risk to you is a straight up loophole.

But of course it's an asshole with a (D) next to his name that is blocking any change lol. Not that there's a distinction between the two letters these days anyway.

You do realize that the only people trying to close this loophole (which, btw, is the carried interest loophole) are democrats (Levin and Rangel), right?

http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/getdoc.cgi?dbname=110_cong_bills&docid=f:h2834ih.txt.pdf

http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/getdoc.cgi?dbname=111_cong_bills&docid=f:h1935ih.txt.pdf

 

[IHateMyJob2004]

I hope he gets a tax break becasue he is creating so many jobs!

 

[lothar]

You do realize that the only people trying to close this loophole (which, btw, is the carried interest loophole) are democrats (Levin and Rangel), right?

http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/getdoc.cgi?dbname=110_cong_bills&docid=f:h2834ih.txt.pdf

http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/getdoc.cgi?dbname=111_cong_bills&docid=f:h1935ih.txt.pdf

False.

Read and weep.
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=newsarchive&sid=a9DpYagBpVIo&refer=us
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/07/30/washington/30schumer.html

 

[Phokus]

False.

Read and weep.
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=newsarchive&sid=a9DpYagBpVIo&refer=us
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/07/30/washington/30schumer.html

Yeah, that's because Schumer is a New York senator who's held captive to New York/Wall Street interests and he's OPPOSING his own party on the issue.

More relevant:

The legislation has been introduced a number of times because the estimates of revenue raised by the proposed changes is approaching $14.5 billion (June 8 2010), so it is not surprising that various forms of taxation of carried interests have been discussed and proposals introduced. While we believed that there was a considerable likelihood that Congress would change the taxation for carried interest in 2010 or 2011, recent elections in the US, putting the Republican party in control of the US House of Representatives, have reduced (or eliminated) the chances we will see carried interest legislation in the near future.

http://www.internationaltaxreview.c...e-still-continues-on-US-carried-interest.html

 

[lothar]

Yeah, that's because Schumer is a New York senator who's held captive to New York/Wall Street interests and he's OPPOSING his own party on the issue.

He's just not "any " Democrat. He's the 3rd ranking(I believe) Democrat in the Senate and possible successor to Harry Reid if that helps.

 

[lothar]

Dems are looking for what's actually do-able, and with repubs in control of the HOR and holding a filibuster enabling minority in the Senate, that's not going to be much. That strong Senate minority made sure little was possible over the last 4 years, as well. Dems also have to contend with their own corporatist members.

Ideological posturing gets us nowhere. The best that can be accomplished against the banking corporatocracy ATM is nibbling at the edges. That doesn't mean I like it, but rather that I'm a realist.

What you offer is like suggesting we attempt to scale Everest in our underwear-It's not something we can actually accomplish, but we can kill ourselves in the attempt.

How exactly is getting rid of the hedge fund loophole more doable than "Cap and Tax"?

It's a shame Democrats didn't bring up this issue in the recent Senate. That had the support of many moderate Republicans including Chuck Grassley and would have overcome any potential filibuster.

Democrats brought it up in 2007 when they had slim majorities, but were shut down by a member of their own party, Chuck Schumer.
They didn't even try to bring up the issue when they had a bigger majority after '08. :\

 

[Phokus]

He's just not "any " Democrat. He's the 3rd ranking(I believe) Democrat in the Senate and possible successor to Harry Reid if that helps.

Yes, but he's not the impediment to carried interest reform. He's still only 1 senator. Hope this helps.

Also, since you love bloomberg so much, here they are reiterating why you won't get carried interest reform:

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-...erm-elections-may-keep-bull-market-alive.html

Carried Interest

It’s unlikely Republicans will pursue a Democratic plan to raise taxes on investment profits, known as carried interest, at private-equity and hedge funds. Managers of the funds can treat carried income from long-term investments at the lower capital- gains rate of 15 percent rather than as ordinary income. A change in those tax laws could more than double the tax rate on carried interest.

Tea Party Victory (for hedge fund managers)

Not sure if you've noticed, but Republicans are not in the business of raising taxes.

 

[Brainonska511]

Yes, but he's not the impediment to carried interest reform. He's still only 1 senator. Hope this helps.

Also, since you love bloomberg so much, here they are reiterating why you won't get carried interest reform:

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-...erm-elections-may-keep-bull-market-alive.html



Tea Party Victory (for hedge fund managers)

Not sure if you've noticed, but Republicans are not in the business of raising taxes.

Another interesting point about carried interest - since it's considered capital gains and not a salary, these people also don't pay FICA taxes on that income. Another nice tax break for them.

 

[darkewaffle]

One man, a NY hedge fund manager, made $5 billion in 2010.

This wealth was from betting against the sub prime real estate market a few years ago.

Indulge my ignorance, but what does that mean? Like, what sort of investments/moves did he make to that end?

 

[werepossum]

So which Democrat is suggesting reenactment of the original Glass–Steagall Act???
Shure da fuck ain't obammma, mama!
You need to some serious reform....who, how and will it be in time to save US?
Gezues! the English look to be better odds!
It's more then ideological wrong and right, it's the need for serious, unmolested leadership, it's not look good at all for the whole world really, everyone is bought or killed.

Good point. It would be nice for both parties to take initiative fixing what they led in breaking - if the Pubbies pushed re-enacting Glass-Steagall and some other banking regs, and the Dems pushed repealing unrealistic HUD limits on low-income and other "disadvantaged" borrowers, making Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac restore out-dated metrics like income and employment verification, credit history, real independent home inspections, etc. Neither party has any interest in fixing what it broke; rather each is interested in implementing its own agenda no matter the cost in economic health or freedom.

 

[Phokus]

Good point. It would be nice for both parties to take initiative fixing what they led in breaking - if the Pubbies pushed re-enacting Glass-Steagall and some other banking regs, and the Dems pushed repealing unrealistic HUD limits on low-income and other "disadvantaged" borrowers, making Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac restore out-dated metrics like income and employment verification, credit history, real independent home inspections, etc. Neither party has any interest in fixing what it broke; rather each is interested in implementing its own agenda no matter the cost in economic health or freedom.

Neither of those two things you mentioned really had anything to do with the mortgage crisis.

 

[Kirby]

I wonder what he'll spend it on...

25 million pairs of $200 jeans

 

[JS80]

lol typical fuckus defend at all costs

 

[Phokus]

lol typical fuckus defend at all costs

Typical JS80 having no actual facts to backup his bogus claims. You didn't even know WHY hedge fund managers were getting taxed at the capital gains rate.

 

[lothar]

You do realize that the only people trying to close this loophole (which, btw, is the carried interest loophole) are democrats (Levin and Rangel), right?

http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/getdoc.cgi?dbname=110_cong_bills&docid=f:h2834ih.txt.pdf

http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/getdoc.cgi?dbname=111_cong_bills&docid=f:h1935ih.txt.pdf

I just read through both bills/resolutions and I've come to the conclusion that they're both completely useless and does nothing to prevent carried interest.
Here's why:
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-...rease-with-864-million-hedge-fund-payout.html

And as Brainonska511 mentioned, even if they somehow manage to increase rate to the top tax bracket the hedge fund managers still get the advantage because they don't have to pay any SS/FICA/Medicare taxes.

The middle class get fucked up as usual.

 

[Phokus]

I just read through both bills/resolutions and I've come to the conclusion that they're both completely useless and does nothing to prevent carried interest.
Here's why:
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-...rease-with-864-million-hedge-fund-payout.html

And as Brainonska511 mentioned, even if they somehow manage to increase rate to the top tax bracket the hedge fund managers still get the advantage because they don't have to pay any SS/FICA/Medicare taxes.

The middle class get fucked up as usual.

I like how you type that out but don't point out what part specifically.

The bills specifically target investment management in partnerships and force net income to be recognized as ordinary income.

 

[jackstar7]

25 million pairs of $200 jeans

If he could change his pants every minute and never sleep and lives another 50 years, he'll have a few days at the end of his life to do other things.